13-04-2010, 02:26 PM
JUDYTH RESPONDS TO BARB JUNKKARINEN ABOUT WHETHER LEE COULD DRIVE
NOTE: An interesting article by Jim Hargrove, "Harvey and Lee: The Man who Could--
and Couldn't--Drive", http://spot.acorn.net/JFKplace/03/JA/JH/JHJA/09-JH.html, offers
some reflections on this question. Ultimately, of course, Judyth knows that the man she
knew in New Orleans could drive because she had driven with him. Frankly, the very idea
of a young man who could speak fluent Russian not knowing how to drive strikes me as a
bit absurd. As Judyth has remarked, he must have been the only boy in LA who couldn't drive.
JUDYTH REPLIES:
==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who
say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient
Traitor" Paine.==
I was wrong. I saw the quotes from Mary Ferrell that "Lee drives" the cousin's car and the uncle's
car, and because I knew from experience that Lee could drive, I thought that the reference meant
the cousin and uncle said so, too, as per Ferrell's notation. I stand corrected. However, Lee did
borrow "a cousin's" car, and the fact that Lee initially took a bus to pick me up to go with him --
it's neat to see a testimony that Lee took a bus that morning, which is also what I report -- and
only after he visited his aunt did we pick up the car-- exists.
Enough references to Lee driving a car exist. The barber near the Paine home is a good one because
he saw Lee up close and cut his hair, and of course would be able to recognize him in the car with
Marina and Ruth Paine. It rather supports what Lee told me -- that he did not want a car and pre-
ended he could not drive to Marina, though I do not know how long he kept thast fact from her. We
can never tell from Marina's testimony, and we sure can trust nothing that Ruth Paine says except
her own name and address (that's a joke, for those purists quoting me out there...).
There are dozens of other examples of people who knew Lee Harvey Oswald could drive, but rather
than quoting them as well, let's just cut to the chase. Again I post a definitive testimony, signed,
sealed and delivered:
On February 14, 1968, Aletha Frair made the following signed statement to Garrison investigator
Gary Sanders:
OFFICE OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY
STATE OF LOUISIANA
PARISH OF ORLEANS
DATE: February 14, 1968
STATEMENT OF: ALETHA FRAIR
RESIDING AT: 8001 Benson New Orleans, LA Phone - 242-2126
S T A T E M E N T
My name is ALETHA FRAIR (MRS. JOHN FRAIR). I live at:
8001 Benson New Orleans, La. Phone - 242-2126
I worked for the Department of Public Safety in Austin, Texas from the early
part of October 1963, through the early part of December 1963. While I was
employed at the Department of Public Safety I worked in the License Records
Department. This Dept. Was responsible for the IBM computer records of all
drivers licenses in the state of Texas.
My husband, JOHN, was working for the United Press International during November
of 1963 and on November 22, 1963 he was in Uvalde, Texas, covering the birthday
of ex-Vice President JOHN NANCE GARNER.
I did not go to work on the 22 of November, 1963, but the following event
occured (sic) the week after the assassination of President KENNEDY.
During the week following the murder of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, on either Wednesday
the 27th, or Tuesday the 28th of November, 1963 the Texas driver's license
issued to LEE HARVEY OSWALD came into my division.
The record (IBM card) on OSWALD was pulled from the files. Several other
employees (5 or 6) of the Department saw the driver's license which was dirty
and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold. The license was the talk
of the office that day since everyone knew who OSWALD was, and the reason his
driver's license records were being pulled from the active file was the fact
that he had been killed.
In October of 1966 my husband and I moved to New Orleans and in June of 1967 my
husband went to work for WWL-TV, Channel 4.
I, ALETHA FRAIR, hereby affirm that all of the above statement is true to the
best of my knowledge.
Signed February 14, 1968.
(Signature of Aletha Frair)
==Or go ahead and believe Ruth Paine, and Marina....and don't believe the barber nearby, who cut LHO's
hair half a dozen times; don't believe Aletha Frair, who saw his driver's license, and it was battered--it had
been used; don't believe me; don't believe Reeves Morgan and his daughter Mary Morgan, who both said
Oswald was in their house -- and outside was an old car in which only a woman was sitting (myself).
Believe the two women who were used to frame LHO. As for my making an error in citing two sources, every-
body makes mistakes. My testimony about the cousin lending Lee the car stands, though it seems I cannot
prove it. However, conjuring up Lee taking a bus 'to the aunt's house' was pure conjecture on the part of
"MIss Murret" who only saw him take a bus -- at which time he picked me up.==
JVB
[quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='189581' date='Apr 12 2010, 10:31 PM'][quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='189579' date='Apr 12 2010, 10:23 PM'] In the mammoth Judyth Baker thread on the Education forum, Ms.
Baker quotes from Mary Ferrell's chronology and claims that Oswald could
drive a car.
QUOTE:
April/May 1963 - "Oswald drives his uncle Murret's car. (WC Vol 2, pp.
503-504) Oswald's cousin, John Murret, let him drive his car sometime
between May and July. (WC Vol 8, p. 151)"
APRIL 28: Disgusted at learning Lee beat his wife, which he admits with
shame, I am stuck having to stay with him because we are already far from
the "Y" finding out how to find his father's grave, and I get lost very
easily. He went to see his aunt, but I stayed outside because he was
married. We had borrowed his cousin's car (See the note above in the
Ferrell Chronology about borrowed cars.).
UNQUOTE [post 981, p. 66] [/quote]
Above, Judyth describes being with Oswald as he drove a borrowed car to his aunt's home, where she waited in the car because he was a married man ... and then is still with him, in that car, as Oswald went looking for his father's grave.
This additional cite was also posted in response to me on the mod group by Jean Davidon:
I should've pointed this out, but I think she was referring to a
visit to another aunt, a relative of his late father. His cousin Marilyn
mentioned it in her testimony.
QUOTE:
Miss MURRET. That was the only time that I had had any chance to talk with
him, and that was the first day that he came--believe it was. After that, on
Saturdays, or that particular Saturday he was out all day looking around for
a job. And then on that Sunday he wanted to know where his father was
buried, and he wanted to locate some of his relatives [....]
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ask you about this or----
Miss MURRET. My mother.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you were there at the time?
Miss MURRET. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did your mother tell him?
Miss MURRET. My mother checked the telephone directory, and I think most
were dead. Harvey Oswald, who was his godfather, I believe, is dead. He did
find one relative and he went to see her.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was her name?
Miss MURRET. I don't know, but that might have been his wife. My mother
would know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Whose wife? Harvey Oswald's?
Miss MURRET. They were very old. That was his father's brother, but they are
all dead. But it might be one of the wives who is still living, and he went
out there to see her, and she gave him a picture of his father. And then he
went to visit the grave.
Mr. LIEBELER. Of his father?
Miss MURRET. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he talk to you about that at all?
Miss MURRET. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. What happened to the picture? Do you know?
Miss MURRET. I think he might have told my mother about it, and I think he
might have told me, but I was there that Sunday and he caught the bus and
went to the other house, and this old lady gave him the picture of his
father. And he just showed it, and that was all.
UNQUOTE
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/murret_m.htm>
Note that she said Oswald "caught the bus." This woman was
interviewed, but I don't have that cite at the moment.
Jean
According to testimonies, Oswald was traveling by bus that day. And none of them, as previously noted, knew him to even be able to drive.
Bests,
Barb :-)
[/quote]
NOTE: An interesting article by Jim Hargrove, "Harvey and Lee: The Man who Could--
and Couldn't--Drive", http://spot.acorn.net/JFKplace/03/JA/JH/JHJA/09-JH.html, offers
some reflections on this question. Ultimately, of course, Judyth knows that the man she
knew in New Orleans could drive because she had driven with him. Frankly, the very idea
of a young man who could speak fluent Russian not knowing how to drive strikes me as a
bit absurd. As Judyth has remarked, he must have been the only boy in LA who couldn't drive.
JUDYTH REPLIES:
==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who
say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient
Traitor" Paine.==
I was wrong. I saw the quotes from Mary Ferrell that "Lee drives" the cousin's car and the uncle's
car, and because I knew from experience that Lee could drive, I thought that the reference meant
the cousin and uncle said so, too, as per Ferrell's notation. I stand corrected. However, Lee did
borrow "a cousin's" car, and the fact that Lee initially took a bus to pick me up to go with him --
it's neat to see a testimony that Lee took a bus that morning, which is also what I report -- and
only after he visited his aunt did we pick up the car-- exists.
Enough references to Lee driving a car exist. The barber near the Paine home is a good one because
he saw Lee up close and cut his hair, and of course would be able to recognize him in the car with
Marina and Ruth Paine. It rather supports what Lee told me -- that he did not want a car and pre-
ended he could not drive to Marina, though I do not know how long he kept thast fact from her. We
can never tell from Marina's testimony, and we sure can trust nothing that Ruth Paine says except
her own name and address (that's a joke, for those purists quoting me out there...).
There are dozens of other examples of people who knew Lee Harvey Oswald could drive, but rather
than quoting them as well, let's just cut to the chase. Again I post a definitive testimony, signed,
sealed and delivered:
On February 14, 1968, Aletha Frair made the following signed statement to Garrison investigator
Gary Sanders:
OFFICE OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY
STATE OF LOUISIANA
PARISH OF ORLEANS
DATE: February 14, 1968
STATEMENT OF: ALETHA FRAIR
RESIDING AT: 8001 Benson New Orleans, LA Phone - 242-2126
S T A T E M E N T
My name is ALETHA FRAIR (MRS. JOHN FRAIR). I live at:
8001 Benson New Orleans, La. Phone - 242-2126
I worked for the Department of Public Safety in Austin, Texas from the early
part of October 1963, through the early part of December 1963. While I was
employed at the Department of Public Safety I worked in the License Records
Department. This Dept. Was responsible for the IBM computer records of all
drivers licenses in the state of Texas.
My husband, JOHN, was working for the United Press International during November
of 1963 and on November 22, 1963 he was in Uvalde, Texas, covering the birthday
of ex-Vice President JOHN NANCE GARNER.
I did not go to work on the 22 of November, 1963, but the following event
occured (sic) the week after the assassination of President KENNEDY.
During the week following the murder of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, on either Wednesday
the 27th, or Tuesday the 28th of November, 1963 the Texas driver's license
issued to LEE HARVEY OSWALD came into my division.
The record (IBM card) on OSWALD was pulled from the files. Several other
employees (5 or 6) of the Department saw the driver's license which was dirty
and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold. The license was the talk
of the office that day since everyone knew who OSWALD was, and the reason his
driver's license records were being pulled from the active file was the fact
that he had been killed.
In October of 1966 my husband and I moved to New Orleans and in June of 1967 my
husband went to work for WWL-TV, Channel 4.
I, ALETHA FRAIR, hereby affirm that all of the above statement is true to the
best of my knowledge.
Signed February 14, 1968.
(Signature of Aletha Frair)
==Or go ahead and believe Ruth Paine, and Marina....and don't believe the barber nearby, who cut LHO's
hair half a dozen times; don't believe Aletha Frair, who saw his driver's license, and it was battered--it had
been used; don't believe me; don't believe Reeves Morgan and his daughter Mary Morgan, who both said
Oswald was in their house -- and outside was an old car in which only a woman was sitting (myself).
Believe the two women who were used to frame LHO. As for my making an error in citing two sources, every-
body makes mistakes. My testimony about the cousin lending Lee the car stands, though it seems I cannot
prove it. However, conjuring up Lee taking a bus 'to the aunt's house' was pure conjecture on the part of
"MIss Murret" who only saw him take a bus -- at which time he picked me up.==
JVB
[quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='189581' date='Apr 12 2010, 10:31 PM'][quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='189579' date='Apr 12 2010, 10:23 PM'] In the mammoth Judyth Baker thread on the Education forum, Ms.
Baker quotes from Mary Ferrell's chronology and claims that Oswald could
drive a car.
QUOTE:
April/May 1963 - "Oswald drives his uncle Murret's car. (WC Vol 2, pp.
503-504) Oswald's cousin, John Murret, let him drive his car sometime
between May and July. (WC Vol 8, p. 151)"
APRIL 28: Disgusted at learning Lee beat his wife, which he admits with
shame, I am stuck having to stay with him because we are already far from
the "Y" finding out how to find his father's grave, and I get lost very
easily. He went to see his aunt, but I stayed outside because he was
married. We had borrowed his cousin's car (See the note above in the
Ferrell Chronology about borrowed cars.).
UNQUOTE [post 981, p. 66] [/quote]
Above, Judyth describes being with Oswald as he drove a borrowed car to his aunt's home, where she waited in the car because he was a married man ... and then is still with him, in that car, as Oswald went looking for his father's grave.
This additional cite was also posted in response to me on the mod group by Jean Davidon:
I should've pointed this out, but I think she was referring to a
visit to another aunt, a relative of his late father. His cousin Marilyn
mentioned it in her testimony.
QUOTE:
Miss MURRET. That was the only time that I had had any chance to talk with
him, and that was the first day that he came--believe it was. After that, on
Saturdays, or that particular Saturday he was out all day looking around for
a job. And then on that Sunday he wanted to know where his father was
buried, and he wanted to locate some of his relatives [....]
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ask you about this or----
Miss MURRET. My mother.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you were there at the time?
Miss MURRET. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did your mother tell him?
Miss MURRET. My mother checked the telephone directory, and I think most
were dead. Harvey Oswald, who was his godfather, I believe, is dead. He did
find one relative and he went to see her.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was her name?
Miss MURRET. I don't know, but that might have been his wife. My mother
would know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Whose wife? Harvey Oswald's?
Miss MURRET. They were very old. That was his father's brother, but they are
all dead. But it might be one of the wives who is still living, and he went
out there to see her, and she gave him a picture of his father. And then he
went to visit the grave.
Mr. LIEBELER. Of his father?
Miss MURRET. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he talk to you about that at all?
Miss MURRET. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. What happened to the picture? Do you know?
Miss MURRET. I think he might have told my mother about it, and I think he
might have told me, but I was there that Sunday and he caught the bus and
went to the other house, and this old lady gave him the picture of his
father. And he just showed it, and that was all.
UNQUOTE
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/murret_m.htm>
Note that she said Oswald "caught the bus." This woman was
interviewed, but I don't have that cite at the moment.
Jean
According to testimonies, Oswald was traveling by bus that day. And none of them, as previously noted, knew him to even be able to drive.
Bests,
Barb :-)
[/quote]