Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[James H. Fetzer]

NOTE: To my astonishment, John Simkin has created a new thread, which technically
is the resurrection of an old thread about Ed Haslam's book, and offers some serious
distortions about it, which bothers me greatly. He has previously intervened on the
Judyth thread in a negative fashion. If I had any doubts as to whether that was
deliberate, these two new negative "spins" settle that question rather definitively.

JIM COMMENTS ON JOHN SIMKIN'S PRESENTATION OF ED HASLAM'S BOOK

On the Judyth thread, Simkin states, "Ed Haslam is a member of this forum
but was unhappy about discussing Judyth Baker." I am in close contact with
Ed Haslam and his preference is to defer discussion until her book, ME & LEE,
has appeared so there will be a reference for public discussion. Anyone who
is reading the Judyth thread will be aware that Ed supports the authenticity of
Judyth's role in the mysterious events in New Orleans. He has already agreed
to a two-hour interview on "The Real Deal" as soon as her book has appeared.
Here Simkin expresses disapproval of the appendix, "Judyth's Story", which is
absurd given Chapter 13, "The Witness", is about her. It is not the last chapter
nor did Ed Haslam "recruit" Judyth to substantiate his story, as Simkin claims.

Simkin seems intent upon spinning situations to the detriment of Judyth. I
find this offensive coming from the founder of a forum which is ostensibly
dedicated to discovering the truth in controversial and complex situations.
I think remarks like Simkin's do not contribute toward that goal. Here are
some snags from Ed's DR. MARY'S MONKEY plus my interview, which was
conducted last Thursday, April 8th, for example, and was first broadcast
on Friday and will be repeated today on revereradio.net from 5-7 PM/CT.



Go to http://www.youtube.com/user/LolaHeavey

Ed Haslam grew up with these events swirling around him. He even asked
his father on his death bed to share information he had withheld from him:







For more, including an excellent chapter from MARY, FERRIE, AND THE MONKEY
VIRUS, go to http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/04/ed...rys-monkey.html

[quote name='John Simkin' post='189563' date='Apr 12 2010, 07:24 PM']
[quote name='Michael Hogan' post='189538' date='Apr 12 2010, 01:25 PM']
[quote name='Glenn Viklund' post='189324' date='Apr 9 2010, 04:32 PM']
Mr Hogan,

Thank you for sharing this with us. This all happened in Bradenton, FL?[/quote]
Glenn, I met Ed Haslam in Tampa, Florida (About one hour north of Bradenton) at
a meeting sponsored by the South Florida Research Group. They are based in Miami.

Mr. Haslam was discussing his research and his book that had just been published.
The Judyth Baker story was a very small part of his presentation.
[/quote]

Ed Haslam is a member of this forum but was unhappy about discussing Judyth Baker.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....opic=10653
[/quote]

[quote name='John Simkin' post='112915' date='Aug 6 2007, 12:28 PM']I have just finished reading Edward T. Haslam’s Dr. Mary’s Monkey. It is a book I highly recommend to all members of the forum. It is extremely well-written and is in the style of Gaeton Fonzi’s “The Last Investigation”. It contains a great deal of new information about the death of Dr. Mary Sherman and the possible links with the assassination of JFK. My only problem with the book is the final chapter where Ed recruits Judyth Vary Baker to support his theory about the links between Sherman, Ferrie and Lee Harvey Oswald. However, this should not be allowed to distract from the valuable research that Ed Haslam has carried out.

Ed is a member of the forum and I hope he will join us in discussing “Dr. Mary’s Monkey: How the Unsolved murder of a doctor, a secret laboratory in New Orleans and cancer-causing monkey viruses are linked to Lee Harvey Oswald, the JFK assassination and emerging global epidemics.”

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_b/026-...x=12&Go.y=8[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

David,

My understanding is that "60 Minutes" spent more time and money vetting this program than any other in its history, but that the decision was made not to broadcast it by upper-echelon administrators for political reasons. I will ask Howard Platzman, who navigated her through all of this, if he can elaborate. I will also ask Judyth about the dates for those income records and why she wanted "a clear record" for them.

Thanks!

Jim

JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK WHITE
...
I have the W-2 form to go with the attached checks, and the income tax records, too, for 1963. I filled my income tax return separately from Robert Baker, because I wanted a clear record of my income to prove it.


...

I'm picking up bits and pieces of this saga as the thread moves on, quick questions re a very minor point, "... I wanted a clear record of my income to prove it." [b]WHY? (my emphasis): does anyone believe the IRS or and other institution (including a US court of law) would accept, as proof of work (amongst other things), payroll check stubs without a date?

And can someone tell me why 60Minutes shit-canned this story?

David Healy

[David Healy]

David,

My understanding is that "60 Minutes" spent more time and money vetting this program than any other in its history, but that the decision was made not to broadcast it by upper-echelon administrators for political reasons. I will ask Howard Platzman, who navigated her through all of this, if he can elaborate. I will also ask Judyth about the dates for those income records and why she wanted "a clear record" for them.

Thanks!

Jim

thanks Jim... look forward to the response...

[Jack White]

David,

My understanding is that "60 Minutes" spent more time and money vetting this program than any other in its history, but that the decision was made not to broadcast it by upper-echelon administrators for political reasons. I will ask Howard Platzman, who navigated her through all of this, if he can elaborate. I will also ask Judyth about the dates for those income records and why she wanted "a clear record" for them.

Thanks!

Jim

JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK WHITE
...
I have the W-2 form to go with the attached checks, and the income tax records, too, for 1963. I filled my income tax return separately from Robert Baker, because I wanted a clear record of my income to prove it.


...

I'm picking up bits and pieces of this saga as the thread moves on, quick questions re a very minor point, "... I wanted a clear record of my income to prove it." [b]WHY? (my emphasis): does anyone believe the IRS or and other institution (including a US court of law) would accept, as proof of work (amongst other things), payroll check stubs without a date?

And can someone tell me why 60Minutes shit-canned this story?

David Healy

What is PENINSULAR CHEMRESEARCH? What happened to Reily Coffee Co.?

Jack

[James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO LEE FARLEY ABOUT THE "TWO OSWALDS"

NOTE: There is no reason to suppose that Judyth has to demonstrate the untenability of
HARVEY & LEE, especially since, in terms of John Armstrong's work, she knew only the
one he calls "Harvey". On the other hand, she has offered observations about some of
the "evidence" that has been advanced in support of the existence of "two Oswalds" and
found it lacking. That includes several of the alleged photographic proofs, the alleged
difference in the color of their eyes, and the "missing tooth" scenario. In addition, she
has observed that the man she knew differed from "Harvey" with respect to several of
the attributes ascribed to him by Armstrong, including, for example, having been born
in Hungary and being unable to drive. What she has to contribute about the man that
she knew in New Orleans thus poses some unavoidable conflicts with HARVEY & LEE.

JUDYTH REPLIES:

The questions posed by Lee Farley are repeated here in italics, Judyth's replies in bold:

If Jim struggles with the concept of two Lee Harvey Oswald's can he (or JVB) tell us

a. who the hell J. Edgar Hoover was chasing around in 1960 using LHO's birth certificate?

REPLY: Lee was in deep cover. He told me he would be able to resume a normal life
when he returned due to records generated that made it seem he had never gone to
the USSR. His meddling mom messed that up. How could Hoover ignore the mother?
He had to respond. Lee said she was a 'meddler' in his business. I wish I knew more.

b. who did Palmer McBride work with in Pfisterer in New Orleans?

Because I am very familiar with Lee's past in New Orleans: he talked of it. Lee did like
astronomy and I believe that part. He is alive and is aware of his vulnerabilities as to his
testimony. More on this later.

c. who was impersonating LHO in Mexico City?

==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. [NOTE: Even J. Edgar acknowledge that
the photos and audio recording from Mexico City were not those of Lee Harvey Oswald.]==

d. who was at the rifle ranges in the lead up to the assassination?

==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. The problem is, there was more than one
impersonator, and these impersonators are being neglected or ignored in favor of just one
man who cannot be found and who, in fact, does not exist, per se, except in files that had
created deep cover for the only and real LHO ==

e. who was at Sylvia Odio's house?

==Lee was there==

f. who was at Red Bird Air Field attempting to charter a plane from Wayne January while
LHO was at work in the TSBD?

==He did that, too. You simply assume Lee was 'at work' at TSBD. Remember that the day
Lee was arrested, his time card for the day was ALREADY FILLED OUT FOR A FULL 8 HOURS.
Yes, it showed him working there for a full day -- 8 hours -- when he was missing from that
building not long after the mid-day assassination. You assume he was at the job, but it was
a cover job, just as at Reily's. He told me it was even better than at Reily's because there
was no time clock to worry about -- everything got filled out by hand.==

g. who was buying beer and brittle from Fred Moore in the Jiffy store on Industrial Blvd?

==Do not assume he was always at the TSBD -- it is a fatal assumption==

h. who was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater and taken out the rear after LHO
was arrested and taken out the front?

==There were impersonators at the end, from Mexico City on. One impersonator who ran in
the the Texas Theater AFTER LHO was already inside==whom the FBI informant at the shoe
store then conveniently made sure was reported to the police by the frightened ticket-seller,
who burst into tears when she was asked if it was REALLY the same guy that they brought out
-- the guy who sold the popcorn shows us that Lee was already inside when Tippit was killed.==

i. who owned all the wallets that were found over the course of 22nd-23rd November?

==Lee owned one and the other was planted, just like the rifle was planted, etc., etc.==

e. who was in the red Ford Falcon seen, and identified as LHO, by T.F. White?

==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who
say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient
Traitor" Paine.==

f. who owned the driving license in the files of the TDPS in Austin?

==Lee owned it. He told me about it early on, along with why he did not get a car in New Orleans...
While in Texas, he had laid it aside somewhere because the Texas highway patrol, he told me, had
"flagged' it saying he was a 'known communist.' He therefore avoided driving as much as possible...
and also did not have the license on him, in case he ever got arrested so he wouldn't ever get beat
up by the police. Most of these questions have simple answers when you know what happened... I
assume the license was found and returned to the Texas Drivers' License Bureau. Maybe he left it
behind at the "YMCA"? Who knows? He old me he left it behind in Texas. I once lost my driver's
license and it was returned to the state bureau. (I lived in Texas myself for over 18 years.)==

I'm sorry but the evidence of two Oswald's is overwhelming.

==Only if you swallow a theory and ignore a witness who can provide reasonable and sensible answers
for you. I have stated, and will again, that there is plenty of 'evidence' that the sun circles the earth,
when actually, it is the earth that is turning, and the earth itself is actually circling the sun. But medieval
thinkers had "the evidence" and it was "overwhelming." But it wasn't true, either.==

John Armstrong's hypothesis might not be perfect but it's as good as it can be with the info he had.

==I wish he had interviewed me. He decided that, because I wasn't pregnant, I could not have posed as
Marina. He jumped to conclusions.

He missed a witness, based on his assumption that I had to be pregnant if I posed as Marina.

He forgot that Marina was all but sequestered.

She never went to the French Quarter, for example.

And I posed as Marina BEFORE she arrived in New Orleans.

Note that when Marina and Ruth Paine visited the French Quarter in late September, before Marina was
taken to Irving Texas--at which time she and Lee wept because he told her they probably would never
meet again--for Lee and I had planned to marry in Mexico -- (see the 'official version' book MARINA
AND LEE). He was soon ordered back to Dallas after the mission he had in Mexico City was called off --
though they'd promised him he could stay.

That night just before leaving New Orleans, when Marina and Ruth went to the French Quarter, Lee did
not go with them.

Lee and I had spent a lot of time in the French Quarter. He did not want to be seen with Marina and Ruth
in case somebody might have called out, "Oswald! Where's Marina?" So he did not go with them.They took
the kids with them...he stayed behind, by himself...==

JVB

I believe JA to be the "real deal" in this matter...

[quote name='Lee Farley' post='189465' date='Apr 11 2010, 09:09 PM']This thread has so much information, garbage, hearsay, facts, lies and insults included in it that I've kinda lost track of what the hell is going on.

Do we all have to make a decision here to believe Judyth and take the "side" of Jim Fetzer or alternatively disbelieve her and take the "side" of David Lifton? Then what? Start a giant pie fight that would put Laurel and Hardy to shame? And would the icing on the proverbial cake (or pie) be the shouting of the F-Word at those who are not on our "side" anymore?

Absolutely pathetic.

The key message in all of this for me is this: has John Armstrong's thesis any legs in light of what JVB has to say?

If Jim struggles with the concept of two Lee Harvey Oswald's can he (or JVB) tell us

a. who the hell J. Edgar Hoover was chasing around in 1960 using LHO's birth certificate?
b. who did Palmer McBride work with in Pfisterer in New Orleans?
c. who was impersonating LHO in Mexico City?
d. who was at the rifle ranges in the lead up to the assassination?
e. who was at Sylvia Odio's house?
f. who was at Red Bird Air Field attempting to charter a plane from Wayne January while LHO was at work in the TSBD?
g. who was buying beer and brittle from Fred Moore in the Jiffy store on Industrial Blvd?
h. who was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater and taken out the rear after LHO was arrested and taken out the front?
i. who owned all the wallets that were found over the course of 22nd-23rd November?
e. who was in the red Ford Falcon seen, and identified as LHO, by T.F. White?
f. who owned the driving license in the files of the TDPS in Austin?

I'm sorry but the evidence of two Oswald's is overwhelming. John Armstrong's hypothesis might not be perfect but it's as good as it can be with the info he had. I believe JA to be the "real deal" in this matter...

...oh and by the way, this is how the whole "alterationist" versus "anti-alterationsist" pissing contest started - the lowering of conscious thought into a tribalistic meme of "thinking" that consists of "you don't think the same thing as me? Well, F*** you!"[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO BARB JUNKKARINEN ABOUT WHETHER LEE COULD DRIVE

NOTE: An interesting article by Jim Hargrove, "Harvey and Lee: The Man who Could--
and Couldn't--Drive", http://spot.acorn.net/JFKplace/03/JA/JH/JHJA/09-JH.html, offers
some reflections on this question. Ultimately, of course, Judyth knows that the man she
knew in New Orleans could drive because she had driven with him. Frankly, the very idea
of a young man who could speak fluent Russian not knowing how to drive strikes me as a
bit absurd. As Judyth has remarked, he must have been the only boy in LA who couldn't drive.

JUDYTH REPLIES:

==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who
say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient
Traitor" Paine.==

I was wrong. I saw the quotes from Mary Ferrell that "Lee drives" the cousin's car and the uncle's
car, and because I knew from experience that Lee could drive, I thought that the reference meant
the cousin and uncle said so, too, as per Ferrell's notation. I stand corrected. However, Lee did
borrow "a cousin's" car, and the fact that Lee initially took a bus to pick me up to go with him --
it's neat to see a testimony that Lee took a bus that morning, which is also what I report -- and
only after he visited his aunt did we pick up the car-- exists.

Enough references to Lee driving a car exist. The barber near the Paine home is a good one because
he saw Lee up close and cut his hair, and of course would be able to recognize him in the car with
Marina and Ruth Paine. It rather supports what Lee told me -- that he did not want a car and pre-
ended he could not drive to Marina, though I do not know how long he kept thast fact from her. We
can never tell from Marina's testimony, and we sure can trust nothing that Ruth Paine says except
her own name and address (that's a joke, for those purists quoting me out there...).

There are dozens of other examples of people who knew Lee Harvey Oswald could drive, but rather
than quoting them as well, let's just cut to the chase. Again I post a definitive testimony, signed,
sealed and delivered:

On February 14, 1968, Aletha Frair made the following signed statement to Garrison investigator
Gary Sanders:

OFFICE OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY

STATE OF LOUISIANA

PARISH OF ORLEANS

DATE: February 14, 1968

STATEMENT OF: ALETHA FRAIR

RESIDING AT: 8001 Benson New Orleans, LA Phone - 242-2126

S T A T E M E N T

My name is ALETHA FRAIR (MRS. JOHN FRAIR). I live at:

8001 Benson New Orleans, La. Phone - 242-2126

I worked for the Department of Public Safety in Austin, Texas from the early
part of October 1963, through the early part of December 1963. While I was
employed at the Department of Public Safety I worked in the License Records
Department. This Dept. Was responsible for the IBM computer records of all
drivers licenses in the state of Texas.

My husband, JOHN, was working for the United Press International during November
of 1963 and on November 22, 1963 he was in Uvalde, Texas, covering the birthday
of ex-Vice President JOHN NANCE GARNER.

I did not go to work on the 22 of November, 1963, but the following event
occured (sic) the week after the assassination of President KENNEDY.

During the week following the murder of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, on either Wednesday
the 27th, or Tuesday the 28th of November, 1963 the Texas driver's license
issued to LEE HARVEY OSWALD came into my division.

The record (IBM card) on OSWALD was pulled from the files. Several other
employees (5 or 6) of the Department saw the driver's license which was dirty
and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold. The license was the talk
of the office that day since everyone knew who OSWALD was, and the reason his
driver's license records were being pulled from the active file was the fact
that he had been killed.

In October of 1966 my husband and I moved to New Orleans and in June of 1967 my
husband went to work for WWL-TV, Channel 4.

I, ALETHA FRAIR, hereby affirm that all of the above statement is true to the
best of my knowledge.

Signed February 14, 1968.

(Signature of Aletha Frair)

==Or go ahead and believe Ruth Paine, and Marina....and don't believe the barber nearby, who cut LHO's
hair half a dozen times; don't believe Aletha Frair, who saw his driver's license, and it was battered--it had
been used; don't believe me; don't believe Reeves Morgan and his daughter Mary Morgan, who both said
Oswald was in their house -- and outside was an old car in which only a woman was sitting (myself).

Believe the two women who were used to frame LHO. As for my making an error in citing two sources, every-
body makes mistakes. My testimony about the cousin lending Lee the car stands, though it seems I cannot
prove it. However, conjuring up Lee taking a bus 'to the aunt's house' was pure conjecture on the part of
"MIss Murret" who only saw him take a bus -- at which time he picked me up.==

JVB

[quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='189581' date='Apr 12 2010, 10:31 PM'][quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='189579' date='Apr 12 2010, 10:23 PM'] In the mammoth Judyth Baker thread on the Education forum, Ms.
Baker quotes from Mary Ferrell's chronology and claims that Oswald could
drive a car.

QUOTE:

April/May 1963 - "Oswald drives his uncle Murret's car. (WC Vol 2, pp.
503-504) Oswald's cousin, John Murret, let him drive his car sometime
between May and July. (WC Vol 8, p. 151)"

APRIL 28: Disgusted at learning Lee beat his wife, which he admits with
shame, I am stuck having to stay with him because we are already far from
the "Y" finding out how to find his father's grave, and I get lost very
easily. He went to see his aunt, but I stayed outside because he was
married. We had borrowed his cousin's car (See the note above in the
Ferrell Chronology about borrowed cars.).

UNQUOTE [post 981, p. 66] [/quote]

Above, Judyth describes being with Oswald as he drove a borrowed car to his aunt's home, where she waited in the car because he was a married man ... and then is still with him, in that car, as Oswald went looking for his father's grave.

This additional cite was also posted in response to me on the mod group by Jean Davidon:

I should've pointed this out, but I think she was referring to a
visit to another aunt, a relative of his late father. His cousin Marilyn
mentioned it in her testimony.

QUOTE:

Miss MURRET. That was the only time that I had had any chance to talk with
him, and that was the first day that he came--believe it was. After that, on
Saturdays, or that particular Saturday he was out all day looking around for
a job. And then on that Sunday he wanted to know where his father was
buried, and he wanted to locate some of his relatives [....]
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ask you about this or----
Miss MURRET. My mother.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you were there at the time?
Miss MURRET. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did your mother tell him?
Miss MURRET. My mother checked the telephone directory, and I think most
were dead. Harvey Oswald, who was his godfather, I believe, is dead. He did
find one relative and he went to see her.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was her name?
Miss MURRET. I don't know, but that might have been his wife. My mother
would know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Whose wife? Harvey Oswald's?
Miss MURRET. They were very old. That was his father's brother, but they are
all dead. But it might be one of the wives who is still living, and he went
out there to see her, and she gave him a picture of his father. And then he
went to visit the grave.
Mr. LIEBELER. Of his father?
Miss MURRET. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he talk to you about that at all?
Miss MURRET. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. What happened to the picture? Do you know?
Miss MURRET. I think he might have told my mother about it, and I think he
might have told me, but I was there that Sunday and he caught the bus and
went to the other house, and this old lady gave him the picture of his
father. And he just showed it, and that was all.

UNQUOTE

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/murret_m.htm>

Note that she said Oswald "caught the bus." This woman was
interviewed, but I don't have that cite at the moment.
Jean

According to testimonies, Oswald was traveling by bus that day. And none of them, as previously noted, knew him to even be able to drive.

Bests,
Barb :-)
[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

JIM RESPONDS TO LEE FARLEY ABOUT A SERIES OF QUESTIONS

Fascinating, Lee. May I infer this represents your own research, or is it largely derived
from that of John Armstrong? Jack, of course, is simply begging the question by taking
for granted that there were "two Oswalds". My inclination at this point in time, given the
problems I have encountered with HARVEY & LEE already, is to think that Robert was a
prime candidate to be impersonating his brother on various occasions but that probably
there were multiple impostors from time to time, where many documents and records
were fabricated and faked to create a false personal history so that the one and only
Lee Harvey Oswald could return to a normal life, where Armstrong does not appear to
have taken that prospect seriously and, I believe, has accepted some phony ones as
authentic. How many and how crucial they are to his thesis, I have yet to determine.

A perfect example, of course, is Jack's insistence that "Harvey" could not drive. I think,
if that were the case, he would be almost unique among millions and millions of young
Americans, virtually all of whom can drive. Moreover, Judyth's claim that he could drive
is based upon ACTUALLY DRIVING WITH HIM, which, I dare say, takes precedence over
a flurry of reports that he could not. Putting these considerations together, I am inclined
to believe that the man she knew in New Orleans could drive, even if, for reasons of his
own, he wanted others to believe that he could not. You appear to know quite a lot more
than I about the issues under consideration here, other than that Caroline Arnold saw him
in the lunchroom again at 12:25 PM, while the assassination took place five minutes later.

Unlike others who are posting here, you appear to have a somewhat open mind about at
least some of these issues. Jack created a "Judyth/Jim" thread to discuss (what we take
to be) "errors" in HARVEY & LEE, but when I reposted around 20 prior posts discussing a
number of them, he claimed I had "rudely hijacked" his thread, when I thought that I was
complying with his wishes. I assumed that he would send them to John Armstrong for an
evaluation, but that did not occur. I would be extremely interested in your take on some
of the issues that Judyth and I have raised in those posts, which include a blunder about
the "index" to the supporting volumes, a feeble witness for "Harvey" having attended the
same junior high school as "Lee", the report of "Lee" having lost a tooth but, remarkably,
but that Lillian Murret, who was "Harvey"s aunt, paid the dental bill, which dumbfounds me.

There are more concerning alleged differences in eye color, photographs that appear to
have been manipulated, and misleading calculations based upon other of them. I believe
that Judyth has scored some important points that remove some of the props alleged to
support the existence of "Harvey" and "Lee". Pat Speer, incidentally, in another thread,
when I quoted a passage from HARVEY & LEE about the FBI secretly taking the physical
evidence (Lee's belongings) back to Washington to launder it and then bringing it back to
Dallas (also in secret), only to pack it up in a car to transport it to Washington for what
was officially the "first and only" time, observed that John had misdated the creation of
the Warren Commission by a week. These kinds of mistakes do not inspire confidence in
HARVEY & LEE. I would like your opinions about the ones reported in "Judyth/Jim". I will
invite Judyth's comments on your post, but she is about to travel, so it may be delayed.

[quote name='Lee Farley' post='189606' date='Apr 13 2010, 04:39 PM']
[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='189589' date='Apr 13 2010, 04:58 AM']

If Jim struggles with the concept of two Lee Harvey Oswald's can he (or JVB) tell us

a. who the hell J. Edgar Hoover was chasing around in 1960 using LHO's birth certificate?

REPLY: Lee was in deep cover. He told me he would be able to resume a normal life
when he returned due to records generated that made it seem he had never gone to
the USSR. His meddling mom messed that up. How could Hoover ignore the mother?
He had to respond. Lee said she was a 'meddler' in his business. I wish I knew more.

b. who did Palmer McBride work with in Pfisterer in New Orleans?

Because I am very familiar with Lee's past in New Orleans: he talked of it. Lee did like
astronomy and I believe that part. He is alive and is aware of his vulnerabilities as to his
testimony. More on this later.

c. who was impersonating LHO in Mexico City?

==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. [NOTE: Even J. Edgar acknowledge that
the photos and audio recording from Mexico City were not those of Lee Harvey Oswald.]==

d. who was at the rifle ranges in the lead up to the assassination?

==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. The problem is, there was more than one
impersonator, and these impersonators are being neglected or ignored in favor of just one
man who cannot be found and who, in fact, does not exist, per se, except in files that had
created deep cover for the only and real LHO ==

e. who was at Sylvia Odio's house?

==Lee was there==

f. who was at Red Bird Air Field attempting to charter a plane from Wayne January while
LHO was at work in the TSBD?

==He did that, too. You simply assume Lee was 'at work' at TSBD. Remember that the day
Lee was arrested, his time card for the day was ALREADY FILLED OUT FOR A FULL 8 HOURS.
Yes, it showed him working there for a full day -- 8 hours -- when he was missing from that
building not long after the mid-day assassination. You assume he was at the job, but it was
a cover job, just as at Reily's. He told me it was even better than at Reily's because there
was no time clock to worry about -- everything got filled out by hand.==

g. who was buying beer and brittle from Fred Moore in the Jiffy store on Industrial Blvd?

==Do not assume he was always at the TSBD -- it is a fatal assumption==

h. who was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater and taken out the rear after LHO
was arrested and taken out the front?

==There were impersonators at the end, from Mexico City on. One impersonator who ran in
the the Texas Theater AFTER LHO was already inside==whom the FBI informant at the shoe
store then conveniently made sure was reported to the police by the frightened ticket-seller,
who burst into tears when she was asked if it was REALLY the same guy that they brought out
-- the guy who sold the popcorn shows us that Lee was already inside when Tippit was killed.==

i. who owned all the wallets that were found over the course of 22nd-23rd November?

==Lee owned one and the other was planted, just like the rifle was planted, etc., etc.==

e. who was in the red Ford Falcon seen, and identified as LHO, by T.F. White?

==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who
say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient
Traitor" Paine.==

f. who owned the driving license in the files of the TDPS in Austin?

==Lee owned it. He told me about it early on, along with why he did not get a car in New Orleans...
While in Texas, he had laid it aside somewhere because the Texas highway patrol, he told me, had
"flagged' it saying he was a 'known communist.' He therefore avoided driving as much as possible...
and also did not have the license on him, in case he ever got arrested so he wouldn't ever get beat
up by the police. Most of these questions have simple answers when you know what happened... I
assume the license was found and returned to the Texas Drivers' License Bureau. Maybe he left it
behind at the "YMCA"? Who knows? He old me he left it behind in Texas. I once lost my driver's
license and it was returned to the state bureau. (I lived in Texas myself for over 18 years.)==

I'm sorry but the evidence of two Oswald's is overwhelming.

==Only if you swallow a theory and ignore a witness who can provide reasonable and sensible answers
for you. I have stated, and will again, that there is plenty of 'evidence' that the sun circles the earth,
when actually, it is the earth that is turning, and the earth itself is actually circling the sun. But medieval
thinkers had "the evidence" and it was "overwhelming." But it wasn't true, either.==

John Armstrong's hypothesis might not be perfect but it's as good as it can be with the info he had.

==I wish he had interviewed me. He decided that, because I wasn't pregnant, I could not have posed as
Marina. He jumped to conclusions.

He missed a witness, based on his assumption that I had to be pregnant if I posed as Marina.

He forgot that Marina was all but sequestered.

She never went to the French Quarter, for example.

And I posed as Marina BEFORE she arrived in New Orleans.

Note that when Marina and Ruth Paine visited the French Quarter in late September, before Marina was
taken to Irving Texas--at which time she and Lee wept because he told her they probably would never
meet again--for Lee and I had planned to marry in Mexico -- (see the 'official version' book MARINA
AND LEE). He was soon ordered back to Dallas after the mission he had in Mexico City was called off --
though they'd promised him he could stay.

That night just before leaving New Orleans, when Marina and Ruth went to the French Quarter, Lee did
not go with them.

Lee and I had spent a lot of time in the French Quarter. He did not want to be seen with Marina and Ruth
in case somebody might have called out, "Oswald! Where's Marina?" So he did not go with them.They took
the kids with them...he stayed behind, by himself...==

JVB[/quote]

a) I find this difficult to believe. I would think that if LHO was being run as an agent out of Angleton’s office through the ONI then surely Robert Webster would have been run the same way. Webster defected two weeks before Oswald and then miraculously re-defected two weeks before. There was no attempt to generate records to make it seem that Webster had never gone to the USSR. It was common knowledge, reported in the newspapers, according to him he knew Marina Prusakova, he worked for the RAND Corporation, and there seems no special dispensation afforded upon his return to the U.S.A. like the one you believe was going to be afforded Lee if it wasn’t for his “meddling” mother. It doesn’t add up. Why run an agent and then try to eradicate or alter records to show they didn’t go? I would assume that the USSR would keep their records? Newspaper articles can’t go down the Nineteen –Eighty Four memory hole? People like Guy Banister would still have records.

b. Whether Lee worked at Pfisterer is not the issue. I think we can all take it as read that Lee worked there. It is the year that he worked there that is of significance. McBride claims he knew Lee at Pfisterer between December 1957 and May 1958. If this is correct then we have a second Oswald in the Marines during this time period. The Warren Commission dealt with this by pushing back the date of Oswald’s employment to 1956.On the subject of Lee’s interest in astrology, McBride claims that Oswald knew very little about the subject. When he was introduced to William Wulf (President of the New Orleans Astronomy Club), Wulf claims that Oswald knew so little about it that he wondered why he wanted to join. Oswald seemed to use the meeting he attended at Wulf’s house to look through the political books and argue with the other members about communism. The exchanges becoming so heated that Wulf’s father threw him out the house. Wulf also claimed to know Oswald in 1958, not 1956 as per the Warren Commission.

c) Is the suggestion here that LHO never went to Mexico City within the currently accepted timeframes? I fully appreciate that he was impersonated by person/persons but when did he go?

d) It is the Sport Drome event (Sunday, November 17th) that grabs my attention. Oswald was identified by Garland Slack after Oswald shot up Garland targets whilst “burning up ammunition.” The element of this story that gives it a greater meaning is that Slack was insistent that a guy by the name of Frazier from Irving had brought Lee to the range. Earleen Roberts claimed that Lee didn’t go anywhere that day and its greater importance is that Oswald was supposed to be in Irving over the weekend visiting his kids.

e) If it's Lee at Sylvia Odio's house then he can't be going south. So, again, LHO didn’t go to Mexico City?

f) The thing that gets me about the Red Bird Air Field situation is this. Wayne January stated that on the morning of 20th November 1963 someone who claims to be Oswald was trying to charter a plane. Yes, you are right, he was supposed to be in the TSBD but if this job was a cover then it’s feasible that he could leave whenever he wanted. The problem I have with this is who was running the cover for him in the TSBD? I am familiar with the work of Richard Gilbride regarding his theory that certain employees in the TSBD were involved in the assassination and I am open to this idea. The spanner in the works is this. On Wednesday 20th of November at 10:30am Ralph Yates picked up a man who he claims was Oswald and took him to the TSBD carrying a package that the “Oswald” stated were “…curtain rods.” So, do we again have two Oswald’s to account for? Assuming there isn’t a third in the TSBD.


g) He must have worked there at some point. Even if it’s to maintain a cover you have to be there so people see you actually working. It would appear that this guy spent less time at work than Homer Simpson.
Here is John Armstrong’s breakdown of who saw LHO at the TSBD at the described times on November 22nd:
8:00 am --- Wesley Frazier, Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce, Roy Truly, Jack Dougherty
8:00 am until noon --- William Shelley --- "I saw him periodically all morning"
8:30 am --- Wesley Frazier
9:00 am --- James Jarman
10:00 am --- Roy Lewis, Eddie Piper
11:00 am --- Jack Dougherty, Wesley Frazier
11:30 am --- James Jarman, Bonnie Ray Williams
11:50 am --- William Shelley, Danny Arce
12:00 noon --- Jack Dougherty, Eddie Piper
12:15 pm --- Mrs. R.E. Arnold
Oswald’s presence in the Jiffy store was at 8:30am. He bought beer resulting in showing his driver license. The store clerk, Fred Moore, claims that he returned at 9:00am to buy some peco brittle. Now,either Fred Moore is mistaken, the TSBD employees are lying or there are two Oswald’s. Multiple people also saw LHO at the Top Ten Records store on Jefferson at 7:30am, this was whilst he was supposedly on his way to the TSBD with BW Frazier.

h) Agreed on the points concerning impersonation at the Texas Theater. Although we also have Roger Craig’s sighting of the “double” leaving the TSBD in the Nash Rambler and the other LHO leaving the area by bus and cab.

i) There were more than two wallets.

j) I would say that’s it’s more than possible that he could drive. But that doesn’t explain the guy driving the Red Ford Falcon. You see, T.F. White saw him sitting in it in a car park a block away from Davis Street. At this point in time Lee Harvey Oswald was already under arrest and on his way to the city jail.

k) I would again reiterate that I think it possible he could drive but obviously someone was using his driving license (you suggest Lee didn't carry it) if we are to believe the observations of Fred Moore from the Jiffy Store.

I appreciate your replies to my questions Judyth and I will continue to wade through all this information. Oh, and thanks to you Jim for posting it...

Lee
[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO INTERESTING COMMENTS BY LEE FARLEY

Rather to my surprise, Judyth has already sent me comments to post in response to Lee.

JUDYTH REPLIES:

Lee's comments are in italics, Judyth's remarks in response are in bold or in CAPS.

a) I find this difficult to believe. I would think that if LHO was being run as an agent out of
Angleton’s office through the ONI then surely Robert Webster would have been run the same way.

==No, if the same pattern is used and an agent 'breaks', they are all in danger of being identified
as to their training, options, etc. To use a Russian example, the defector Tasarov, a Russian naval
officer, the CIA and HUAC decided not to handle him the same way they would a higher-ranking
defector. He never reached the public eye. That is an example I know about and have records about.

Now, if HUAC and CIA decide to treat two different Soviet defectors differently, can they not also opt
to treat FAKE defectors differently? they have different missions, too. Lee was originally supposed to
become a college student, he told me. Instead, he got sent to Minsk....

Here is a nice observation about the times:

"In His Defector He Trusted"
Gérald Arboit
01-05-2007

"No process is as old and simple as that of intelligence: using a defector to obtain information from
the “other side”, especially in the case of a closed political system such as the Soviet Regime. In the
first twenty years of the Cold War, the CIA was not very familiar with this game1. Reasons were diverse:
its inability to operate in the USSR before 1961, because of the opposition of the State Department; the
strong control of the KGB in the Soviet territory, that made it quite impossible for an American to operate
freely, and on the Soviet people during Stalin’s era. A logical consequence were the technical programs
devised by the CIA to obtain Signal and Image Intelligence data. At the same time, the CIA was the
object of many suspicions and attacks in the USA due to the fact that it remained a permanent
intelligence agency, even in peacetime.

HENCE, WE CANNOT EXPECT ANY TWO FAKE DEFECTORS TO HAVE THE SAME TREATMENT.==

Webster defected two weeks before Oswald and then miraculously re-defected two weeks before.
There was no attempt to generate records to make it seem that Webster had never gone to the USSR.

BUT OSWALD WAS SCHEDULED TO BE USED AGAIN, AS PER PRO-CASRO ACTIVITIES, ETC.
YOU CAN CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THAT HE WASN'T BEING FITTED OUT FOR THAT, THOUGH.

It was common knowledge, reported in the newspapers, according to him he (Webster) knew Marina
Prusakova, he worked for the RAND Corporation, and there seems to have been no special dispensation
afforded upon his return to the U.S.A.

KNOWING HER AND GETTING A JOB WITH RAND SHOWS YOUR BOY WAS TAKEN CARE OF. AND LEE,
TOO, WAS REPORTED ABOUT IN THE PAPERS. HEMMING TOLD ME ABOUT HIS OWN COVER JOB AT A
WELDER'S, JUST AS LEE GOT WHEN HE FIRST RETURNED, BUT HEMMING SAID ALL KINDS OF THINGS,
RIGHT?

LEE HAD SIGNIFICANT MOB CONNECTIONS IN NEW ORLEANS. THE MOB WAS COOPERATING WITH THE
CIA RE CUBA. LEE HAD LOTS OF HELP TO GET TO THE USSR AND TO GET OUT AGAIN. I DON'T SEE
YOUR BOY RETURNING WITH MARINA AND A BABY. DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES.

like the one you believe was going to be afforded Lee if it wasn’t for his “meddling” mother. It doesn’t
add up. Why run an agent and then try to eradicate or alter records to show they didn’t go?

==I THINK YOU MISUNDERSTOOD ME. THERE WAS A REACTION TO THE MOM, I BELIEVE, WHICH IS
WHY LEE CALLED HER A MEDDLER IN HIS AFFAIRS. BEYOND THAT, THERE WAS NO ATTEMPT TO SHOW
HE 'DIDN'T DEFECT' TO THE PUBLIC. NOR DO I HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY RECORDS WERE GENERATED,
BUT I THINK I WORDED THAT TOO LOOSELY: I SAID,

REPLY: Lee was in deep cover. He told me he would be able to resume a normal life
when he returned due to records generated that made it seem he had never gone to
the USSR. His meddling mom messed that up. How could Hoover ignore the mother?
He had to respond. Lee said she was a 'meddler' in his business. I wish I knew more.

TO REWORD THIS A BIT BETER, I SHOULD PROBABLY HAVE SAID, "HE WOULD BE ABLE TO RESUME A
NORMAL LIFE DUE TO RECORDS HE COULD ACCESS THAT MADE IT SEEM HE HAD NEVER GONE TO THE
USSR. SPECIFICALLY, THESE WERE GENERATED BEFORE HE DEFECTED TO THE USSR AND BEFORE HE
WENT TO TEXAS AND THEN JOINED THE MARINES. HE SAID HE HAD BAD WORK REFERENCES IN NEW
ORLEANS THAT INCLUDED EMPLOYMENT WITH ORGANIZED CRIME/MARCELLO ESTABLISHMENTS -- AS
RESTAURANTS RUN BY THE MOB -- AND IF HE WAS TO BE USED TO GO INTO CUBA AFTER RETURNING
TO THE USSR, HIS MOB CONNECTIONS HAD TO BE TRIVIALIZED FOR HIS SAFETY. HE DID NOT WANT
THOSE KINDS OF REFERENCES ON HIS RECORD. HE SAID THOSE RECORDS WERE EXPUNGED.

I CONJECTURE THAT SOME OF THE WORK RECORDS I HAVE SEEN DURING THE TIME LEE TOLD ME HE
WAS WORKING AS A GOPHER FOR MARCELLO ESTABLISHMENTS, ETC. TOOK THEIR PLACE. I DID NOT
MEAN TO IMPLY SOME HUGE OPERATION. HIS MOTHER MESSED THIS UP BECAUSE SHE MADE HIS MAFIA
CONNECTIONS VISIBLE -- HER SISTER WAS MARRIED TO ONE OF MARCELLO'S PEOPLE AND WAS WELL
KNOWN, THOUGH IT MIGHT NOT BE IN THE RECORDS -- I DON'T KNOW -- HOW CLOSE HE WAS TO
MARCELLO, WHO WAS AS ANI-CASTRO AS YOU COULD GET. LEE MADE FRIENDS WITH CUBANS IN
THE USSR ON PURPOSE.

I would assume that the USSR would keep their records? Newspaper articles can’t go down the
Nineteen –Eighty Four memory hole? People like Guy Banister would still have records.

-- I HOPE I'VE EXPLAINED THAT THIS WAS NOT EXTENSIVE BUT INVOLVED ONLY SOME UNDESERVED
RECORDS HE HAD ERASED OR HIDDEN, UNTIL HIS MOTHER MADE HIS CONNECTIONS A DIFFICULTY FOR
HIM AND MAYBE EVEN DANGEROUS, AS HE'D MADE FRIENDS OF CUBANS WHILE IN MINSK. A RECORD
OF THAT EXISTS SOMEWHERE BESIDES A PHOTO I HAVE SEEN, SOMEBODY SENT ME A RECORD OF
IT AFTER I MENTIONED THIS TO THEM....

b. Whether Lee worked at Pfisterer is not the issue.

TO ME, IT MAY WELL BE AN ISSUE.

I think we can all take it as read that Lee worked there.

I DO NOT TRUST ASPECTS OF McBRIDE'S TESTIMONY. I MAY STAND ALONE ABOUT THAT, BUT THERE
ARE ASPECTS THAT DO NOT FIT LEE AT THAT AGE. FIRST OF ALL, ED VOEBEL STATED LEE DID NOT TALK
ABOUT COMMUNISM, THAT HE WAS A NORMAL KID READING COMIC BOOKS, PLAYING POOL, ETC., THOUGH
HE DID LIKE CLASSICAL MUSIC AND READING A LOT....

I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH McBRIDE ON OTHER THINGS HE SAYS, AS WELL. I DO NOT CONSIDER HIM SUCH
A GREAT WITNESS EVEN THOUGH HE IS ALIVE. IT REMINDS ME OF THE PSYCHLOGIST WHO ASSESSED
LEE AS BRIGHT NORMAL BUT LONELY, WHO LATER, WHEN THE WC WANTED A SATEMENT, WENT AGAINST
WHAT HE'D WRITTEN BACK THEN AND SAID LEE WAS BASICALLY A KILLER READY TO ACT ON IMPULSE.

I SEE EVIDENCE IN McBRIDE'S STATEMENTS THAT ARE SIMILARLY TROUBLESOME. I'D LIKE TO CONFRONT
HIM FACE TO FACE (AND ALSO CONFRONT RUTH PAINE FACE TO FACE, THAT I'D LOVE TO DO!).

It is the year that he worked there that is of significance. McBride claims he knew Lee at Pfisterer between
December 1957 and May 1958. If this is correct

IT'S NOT. HE SAYS OTHER THINGS THAT SHOW HE DID NOT KNOW THE 'REAL' LHO.

then we have a second Oswald in the Marines during this time period. The Warren Commission dealt
with this by pushing back the date of Oswald’s employment to 1956. On the subject of Lee’s interest in
astrology,

NO, THAT IS ASTRONOMY. YES, LEE LIKED ASTRONOMY. YOU MIGHT NOTE IN PHOTOS OF ME, A BIG
TELESCOPE IS IN THE BACKGROUND IN ONE PHOTO. MY BOYFRIEND, AL FEEMAN, A REAL CUTE GUY,
MADE ME A BIG NEWTONIAN REFLECTOR TELESCOPE. LEE AND I BOTH LIKED ASTRONOMY, SO I KNOW
YOUR 'ASTROLOGY' THERE IS WRONG.

McBride claims that Oswald knew very little about the subject.

THAT IS INCORRECT. HE KNEW THE CONSTELLATIONS, MAJOR GALAXIES AND SO ON BY NAME AND SIGHT.

When he was introduced to William Wulf (President of the New Orleans Astronomy Club), Wulf claims that
Oswald knew so little about it that he wondered why he wanted to join.

PROBABLY BECAUSE HE WANTED TO LEARN ABOUT ASTRONOMY. HOW STRANGE IS THAT? HE HAD NO
CHANCE TO SEE STARS IN NEW YORK CITY. HE LISTED ASTRONOMY AS ONE OF HIS INTERESTS IN HIGH
SCHOOL, I BELIEVE, JUST AS I DID....JOINING A CLUB IS A VERY GOOD WAY TO LEARN ABOUT THE SUBJECT
OF THAT CLUB.

Oswald seemed to use the meeting he attended at Wulf’s house to look through the political books and argue
with the other members about communism. The exchanges becoming so heated that Wulf’s father threw him
out the house. Wulf also claimed to know Oswald in 1958, not 1956 as per the Warren Commission.

NONSENSE. LEE SAID HE HAD READ MARX, LENIN, ETC. BUT ALSO THE OHER SIDE OF THE COIN AS WELL --
JEFFERSON AND SO ON -- BUT HE KNEW BETTER THAN TO OPEN HIS MOUTH. QUESTIONED, ED VOEBEL,
WHO KNEW LEE WELL, STATED FIRMLY THAT LEE NEVER TALKED OF COMMUNISM AND THAT LEE DIDN'T PICK
FIGHTS, HE AVOIDED THEM UNLESS CONFRONTED. VOEBEL SAID HE WAS JUST A KID, NO AGENDA. BUT WE
HAVE THIS PSYCHOLOGIST CARRYING ON ABOUT A BELLIGERENT LEE, ETC.

[NOTE: I believe that Judyth is indicating that she believes the Oswald Ed Voebel knew by the name of "Lee"
is the same man she knew by the name of "Lee" in New Orleans, which appears to be consistent with the
fact that Voeble never called him "Harvey" and that Aunt Lilllian paid for his dental bill, where Armstrong, in
her view (as I understand it), was mistakenly insisting that the man who lost a tooth (which may have been
restored) was the one he calls "LEE" rather than the man she knew in New Orleans, whom he calls "Harvey").]

AND WE HAVE McBRIDE'S PAL CHIMING IN. I FIND IT SUSPICIOUSLY 'MADE TO ORDER' TESTIMONY -- ONLY
THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR HOMEWORK VERY WELL ABOUT THE DATES. I GO ON THE HISTORY LEE GAVE ME AND
WHAT VOEBEL HAD TO SAY. NEW ORLEANS WAS SO CORRUPT AT THAT TIME, FBI INFORMANTS ON EVERY
CORNER, STOOL PIGEONS EVERYWHERE, MONEY AND BRIBES FLOWING SO FREELY...

AND ONCE YOU ARE ON THE RECORD AND YOU ARE STILL ALIVE, YOU HAVE TO STICK TO YOUR TESTIMONY
THAT SOMEBODY PAID YOU $100 TO SAY...HE DESCRIBES A LEE OSWALD THAT DIDN'T EXIST AND SHOWS
MOTIVES THAT DO NOT MAKE SENSE FOR THE YOUNG LAD -- JOINING AN ASTRONOMY CLUB -- BUT NOT
KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT ASTRONOMY --THEY CLAIM THE KID JOINED JUST TO CAUSE TROUBLE AND
FIGHT ABOUT POLITICS AND COMMUNISM?

AND LEE IS NOT THERE TO DEFEND HIMSELF, SO I WILL, FOR HIM. THIS IS THE SAME YOUNG MAN WHO
TOOK ON A PAPER ROUTE TO BUY HIMSELF A CAP UNIFORM SO HE COULD ATTEND CIVIL AIR PATROL
MEETINGS -- SAME TIME, SAME PLACE -- A PATRIOTIC ORGANIZATION OF THE HIGHEST ORDER -- AND
HE'S PICKING FIGHTS DEFENDING COMMUNISM? USE YOUR HEAD. IT'S NOT TRUE.

c) Is the suggestion here that LHO never went to Mexico City within the currently accepted time frames?
I fully appreciate that he was impersonated by person/persons but when did he go?

I KNOW WHEN HE CROSSED THE BORDER BECAUSE HE CALLED ME JUST BEFORE HE CALLED TWIFORD.
(HE SAID HE HAD TO CALL SOMEBODY ELSE --I ASSUME THAT WAS TWIFORD)....DATES SEEM RIGHT...

d) It is the Sport Drome event (Sunday, November 17th) that grabs my attention. Oswald was identified by
Garland Slack after Oswald shot up Garland targets whilst “burning up ammunition.” The element of this
story that gives it a greater meaning is that Slack was insistent that a guy by the name of Frazier from
Irving had brought Lee to the range. Earleen Roberts claimed that Lee didn’t go anywhere that day and its
greater importance is that Oswald was supposed to be in Irving over the weekend visiting his kids.

FRAZIER WAS ALL BUT BLACKMAILED. LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO HM. LOOK THAT HE SAYS TODAY. HE
NEVER MENTIONS THAT INCIDENT. FRAZIER'S NAME WAS IN THE PAPERS, TOO... IN A BIG CASE, TIPS
AND JUNK COME IN AND POLICE HUNT THEM DOWN AND FIND OUT 50% OF THEM OR MORE ARE FALSE
LEADS. I USED TO BE A REPORTER. BUT IN THE OSWALD MATTER, ANY REPORT THAT SHOWS ANGER.
HOSTILITY, GUNS, SHOOTING, IS BROUGHT CENTER-FORWARD AS THE GOD-AWFUL TRUTH.

e) If it's Lee at Sylvia Odio's house then he can't be going south. So, again, LHO didn’t go to Mexico City?

WRONG. HE DIDN'T USE THE BUS TICKET., LOOK AGAIN AND NOTE IT WAS USED ONLY IN A RETURN
SECTION. AND IT WASN'T LEE WHO USED THE PORTION RETURNING TO NEW ORLEANS, THIS THEY
NEVER MENTION....LEE DIDN'T GO BY BUS. HE WASN'T ON THAT BUS AND YOU WILL FIND NO WITNESSES
TO IT. HE DID BOARD A BUS TO CROSS THE BORDER. WC ASSUMED THAT HE DIDN'T FLY. WRONG.

f) The thing that gets me about the Red Bird Air Field situation is this. Wayne January stated that on the
morning of 20th November 1963 someone who claims to be Oswald was trying to charter a plane. Yes,
you are right, he was supposed to be in the TSBD but if this job was a cover then it’s feasible that he
could leave whenever he wanted. The problem I have with this is who was running the cover for him
in the TSBD? I am familiar with the work of Richard Gilbride regarding his theory that certain employees
in the TSBD were involved in the assassination and I am open to this idea. The spanner in the works is this.
On Wednesday 20th of November at 10:30am Ralph Yates picked up a man who he claims was Oswald and
took him to the TSBD carrying a package that the “Oswald” stated were “…curtain rods.” So, do we have
again have two Oswald’s to account for? Assuming there isn’t a third in the TSBD.

==I WASN'T THERE. BUT I KNOW LEE SAID HE WOULD NOT BE CARRYING A FIREARM BECAUSE THAT
WOULD BE AN EXCUSE TO SHOOT HIM DEAD, IN HIS OPINION. I HAVE TOUGHT ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES.
IT IS JUST POSSIBLE THAT LEE CARRIED A PACKAGE INTO THE TSBD THAT WOULD RESEMBLE A WRAPPED
RIFLE, SO THAT ANYONE LOOKING TO SEE IF HE DID BRING A WEAPON, AS HE HAD PERHAPS BEEN ORDERED
TO DO, WOULD BE SATISFIED THAT HE COMPLIED. BUT IT WAS CURTAIN RODS. I HAVE CONSIDERED THE
TWO CURTAIN ROD INCIDENT AND SPECULATE -- JUST SPECULATE -- THAT HE COULD HAVE CLAIMED HE
BROUGHT THE RIFLE IN DISASSEMBLED, IN TWO PARTS -- ONE PART WEDNESDAY, THE OTHER FRIDAY --
AND OBSERVORS WOULD THINK HE COMPLIED. BUT THEY WERE 'CURTAIN RODS' TO OUSIDERS -- AND IN
FACT, THEY ACTUALLY 'WERE' CURTAIN RODS....JUST SPECULATION, I WASN'T THERE.==

g) He must have worked there at some point. Even if it’s to maintain a cover you have to be there so people
see you actually working. It would appear that this guy spent less time at work than Homer Simpson.

==THAT WAS CERTAINLY TRUE AT REILY'S. WITH THE FACTORY AND THE REILY OFFICES TO MAINTAIN --
LEE WAS NOT JUST A 'GREASER' AS THE WC HAS IT -- ADRIAN ALBA MENTIONS HE WORE AN ELECTRICIAN'S
BELT--BECAUSE LEE COULD BE ANYWHERE PUTTING IN A LIGHTBULB, CLEANING OUT ROASTERS, OUTSIDE
FIXING A BURNED-OUT LAMP, FIXING SOMETHING ON THE ASSEMBLY LINE MACHINES -- OVER IN THE OFFICE
BUILDING CHECKING AN OUTLET THAT DIDN'T WORK -- HE WAS A MAINTENANCE MAN, NOT A GREASER,
AND SO IT WAS HARD TO KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT REILY'S. ONCE WE EVEN KIDDED AND SAID WE SENT
HIM OVER TO HELP OUT AS AN OILER ON A CRANE AT THE NEW RIELY FACTORY UNDER CONSTRUCTION
BECAUSE HE HAD TO BE GONE ALL DAY AND WE HAD TO CONCOCT AN EXCUSE FOR HIM.

AS FOR THE TSBD, IT WAS HECTIC THERE BECAUSE THEY WERE PUTTING IN NEW FLOORS, ALL KINDS OF
REFURBISHING GOING ON, AND THE TSBD WAS JUST ONE COMPANY IN THE BUILDING....MR. TRULY,
HOWEVER, KNEW LEE HAD 'OTHER' WORK TO DO, AND LEE'S TIMESHEETS WERE FILLED OUT FOR FULL TIME
WHETHER HE WAS THERE OR NOT, AS THE FILLED-OUT SHEET FOR NOV. 22, 1963 PROVES. AS FOR WHO
WOULD MISS HIM, HE WAS A NEW WORKER AND KEPT TO HIMSELF AND ATE LUNCH ALONE SO THAT PEOPLE
SIMPLY NEVER MISSED HIM ANYWAY.

Here is John Armstrong’s breakdown of who saw LHO at the TSBD at the described times on November 22nd:

NOW, ON THE 22ND, THAT WAS DIFFERENT--LEE WAS THERE...AND I'M SUR EHE WAS 'THERE' MORE THAN
OUT AS A RULE, JUST AS AT REILY'S...ON THAT DAY, OF ALL DAYS, HE WAS WHERE HE WAS TOLD TO BE
--OBVIOUSLY AT THE TSBD -- HE DID TELL ME HE DID NOT KNOW WHERE HE MIGHT BE ASKED TO GO 'FOR
LUNCH' -- MEANING FOR THE ASSASSINATION....

8:00 am --- Wesley Frazier, Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce, Roy Truly, Jack Dougherty
8:00 am until noon --- William Shelley --- "I saw him periodically all morning"
8:30 am --- Wesley Frazier
9:00 am --- James Jarman
10:00 am --- Roy Lewis, Eddie Piper
11:00 am --- Jack Dougherty, Wesley Frazier
11:30 am --- James Jarman, Bonnie Ray Williams
11:50 am --- William Shelley, Danny Arce
12:00 noon --- Jack Dougherty, Eddie Piper
12:15 pm --- Mrs. R.E. Arnold

Oswald’s presence in the Jiffy store was at 8:30am. He bought beer resulting in showing his driver license.
The store clerk Fred Moore claims that he returned at 9:00am to buy some peco brittle. Now, either Fred
Moore is mistaken, the TSBD employees are lying or there are two Oswald’s.

WELL, YOU HAVE TO BE RIGHT...THIS WAS THE BIG DAY, ANYTHING COULD HAVE BEEN IN THE WORKS TO
IMPLICATE LEE OSWALD. BY NOW THE 'OTHER' OSWALD IS DEFNITELY AROUND, JUST AS WE HAVE THE
PROBLEMS IN MEXICO CIY WHERE THEY WANT TO FRAME HIM -- AND HERE, TOO...I'M SORRY, I THOUGHT
THE BRITLE THING WAS ABOUT SOMETHING THAT OCCURRED ON SUNDAY NIGHT BEFORE...AND FROM A
DIFFERENT WITNESS....I SHOULD HAVE READ MORE CAREFULLY, AND APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. OF COURSE,
THERE ARE MULTIPLE PEOPLE POSING AS OSWALD NEAR THE END.

IT IS OBVIOUS. MY CONTENTION IS THAT THIS DID NOT START WITH 13-YEAR-OLD BOYS. AND ALSO,
THERE IS NO LEE OSWALD LIVING WITH MARINA ON WEEKDAYS AND A HARVEY WITH HER ON WEEKENDS,
AND ALL OF THAT.

Multiple people also saw LHO at the Top Ten Records store on Jefferson at 7:30am, whilst he was driving to
the TSBD with BW Frazier.

WELL, I AGREE...THIS IS LATE IN THE GAME AND PLANS HAVE BEEN CAREFULLY LAID TO IMPLICATE LHO.

h) Agreed on the points concerning impersonation at the Texas Theater. Although we also have Roger Craig’s
sighting of the “double” leaving the TSBD in the Nash Rambler and the other LHO leaving the area by bus and cab.

==THE CAB DRIVER HAD TO BE CHANGED WEN THE FIRST CAB DRIVER'S ROUTE DID NOT PAN OUT...THE
BUS TRANSFER TICKET WAS SMOOTH AND UNWRINKLED, PLANTED MATERIAL....LEE SAID 'LEAVE PAINE OUT
OF THIS' ABOUT THE CAR -- LEE SAID STATION WAGON -- HE SAID PAINE'S NAME, NOT TO LEAVE HER OUT
BUT TO SHOW SHE WAS INVOLVED. HE KNEW SHE WAS BAD AND HE BROUGHT UP HER NAME ON PURPOSE.

THE BLEDSOE INCIDENT ON THE BUS IS A FARCE. IN SHORT, THEY DID NOT DARE SAY OSWALD ESCAPED
BY CAR BECAUSE THE CAR IS THE SAME COLOR AS PAINE'S. UH-OH!==

i) There were more than two wallets.

==ONE PLANTED--WE KNOW THE HIDELL THINGIE IS CONCOCTED THE WAY IT IS REPORTED==

j) I would say that’s it’s more than possible that he could drive. But that doesn’t explain the guy driving
the Red Ford Falcon. You see, T.F. White saw him sitting in it in a car park a block away from Davis Street.
At this point in time Lee HarveyOswald was already under arrest and on his way to the city jail.

==THE INCIDENT HAPPENED TWO WEEKS EARLIER...THE LHO LOOKALIKE WHO WAS PROBABLY ARRESTED
AT THE TEXAS THEATER AND LET GO, ONCE OUT OF SIGHT OF THE FRONT DOORS, GOT IN HIS CAR AND
WAS WAITING FOR HIS OWN SIGNAL TO LEAVE TOWN...JUST A THOUGHT==

k) I would again reiterate that I think it possible he could drive but obviously someone was using his driving
license if we are to believe the observations of Fred Moore from the Jiffy Store.

NO, BY THIS TIME THE REAL LICENSE WAS IN THE TEXAS RECORDS DEPARTMENT, AS TESTIFIED TO BY
AN EMPLOYEE THERE. (WE HAVE HER RECORDS, SHE IS A REAL PERSON) -- BECAUSE IT WAS PULLED AND
LOCATED THERE AFTER LEE WAS SHOT AND KILLED. THAT WAS MONDAY AFTER THE SOOTING. THE LICENSE
WAS NOT PLANTED WITHIN A FEW HOURS -- ON FRIDAY -- THAT WOULD BE A BIG RISK -- THE AGENCY WAS
NOT OPEN ON WEEKENDS---SO THE OTHER LICENSE WAS A FAKE, ALONG WITH THE FAKE OSWALD.

I appreciate your replies to my questions Judyth and I will continue to wade through all this information.

HEY, I WAS NOT IN DALLAS AND JUST HAVE TO GO ON THE PERSON I KNEW AND COMMON SENSE -- AND
THE RECORDS....THANK YOU FOR YOUR POLITENESS AND GOOD QUESTIONS.

I CANT POST HERE ANYMORE FOR QUITE AWHILE -- THANKS JIM, FOR EVERYTHING! -- BECAUSE I'M GOING
TO BE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY. IT TAKES A LONG TME TO GET MY INTERNET CONNECTION THERE AND I
CANNOT GO TO AN INTERNET CAFE.

IT HAS BEEN A PLEASURE TALKING TO YOU, LEE. IT'S ALL I HAD ASKED FOR ON THIS FORM, TO BE ASKED
QUESTIONS INSTEAD OF CHALLENGED AS TO MY INTEGRITY AND TALKED ABOUT --

I HOPE I DID NOT SOUND NEGATIVE AT ANY TIME. THE WEIGHT OF YEARS OBSCURES MEMORIES, BUT I
ALSO HAVE A SHORT TERM MEMORY PROBLEM SO I HAVE TO READ THINGS OVER MORE THAN ONCE --
WITH BAD EYES -- DID THE BEST I COULD. I FEEL YOU ARE THAT WAY, TOO.

BYE, LEE!

JVB

[quote name='Lee Farley' post='189606' date='Apr 13 2010, 04:39 PM'][quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='189589' date='Apr 13 2010, 04:58 AM']
If Jim struggles with the concept of two Lee Harvey Oswald's can he (or JVB) tell us

a. who the hell J. Edgar Hoover was chasing around in 1960 using LHO's birth certificate?

REPLY: Lee was in deep cover. He told me he would be able to resume a normal life
when he returned due to records generated that made it seem he had never gone to
the USSR. His meddling mom messed that up. How could Hoover ignore the mother?
He had to respond. Lee said she was a 'meddler' in his business. I wish I knew more.

b. who did Palmer McBride work with in Pfisterer in New Orleans?

Because I am very familiar with Lee's past in New Orleans: he talked of it. Lee did like
astronomy and I believe that part. He is alive and is aware of his vulnerabilities as to his
testimony. More on this later.

c. who was impersonating LHO in Mexico City?

==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. [NOTE: Even J. Edgar acknowledge that
the photos and audio recording from Mexico City were not those of Lee Harvey Oswald.]==

d. who was at the rifle ranges in the lead up to the assassination?

==There is no doubt Lee was impersonated there. The problem is, there was more than one
impersonator, and these impersonators are being neglected or ignored in favor of just one
man who cannot be found and who, in fact, does not exist, per se, except in files that had
created deep cover for the only and real LHO ==

e. who was at Sylvia Odio's house?

==Lee was there==

f. who was at Red Bird Air Field attempting to charter a plane from Wayne January while
LHO was at work in the TSBD?

==He did that, too. You simply assume Lee was 'at work' at TSBD. Remember that the day
Lee was arrested, his time card for the day was ALREADY FILLED OUT FOR A FULL 8 HOURS.
Yes, it showed him working there for a full day -- 8 hours -- when he was missing from that
building not long after the mid-day assassination. You assume he was at the job, but it was
a cover job, just as at Reily's. He told me it was even better than at Reily's because there
was no time clock to worry about -- everything got filled out by hand.==

g. who was buying beer and brittle from Fred Moore in the Jiffy store on Industrial Blvd?

==Do not assume he was always at the TSBD -- it is a fatal assumption==

h. who was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater and taken out the rear after LHO
was arrested and taken out the front?

==There were impersonators at the end, from Mexico City on. One impersonator who ran in
the the Texas Theater AFTER LHO was already inside==whom the FBI informant at the shoe
store then conveniently made sure was reported to the police by the frightened ticket-seller,
who burst into tears when she was asked if it was REALLY the same guy that they brought out
-- the guy who sold the popcorn shows us that Lee was already inside when Tippit was killed.==

i. who owned all the wallets that were found over the course of 22nd-23rd November?

==Lee owned one and the other was planted, just like the rifle was planted, etc., etc.==

e. who was in the red Ford Falcon seen, and identified as LHO, by T.F. White?

==Lee H. Oswald could drive. His uncle, cousin, and I have all reported that. The people who
say he could not drive are largely Marina "Sequestered Widow" Oswald and Ruth "Convenient
Traitor" Paine.==

f. who owned the driving license in the files of the TDPS in Austin?

==Lee owned it. He told me about it early on, along with why he did not get a car in New Orleans...
While in Texas, he had laid it aside somewhere because the Texas highway patrol, he told me, had
"flagged' it saying he was a 'known communist.' He therefore avoided driving as much as possible...
and also did not have the license on him, in case he ever got arrested so he wouldn't ever get beat
up by the police. Most of these questions have simple answers when you know what happened... I
assume the license was found and returned to the Texas Drivers' License Bureau. Maybe he left it
behind at the "YMCA"? Who knows? He old me he left it behind in Texas. I once lost my driver's
license and it was returned to the state bureau. (I lived in Texas myself for over 18 years.)==

I'm sorry but the evidence of two Oswald's is overwhelming.

==Only if you swallow a theory and ignore a witness who can provide reasonable and sensible answers
for you. I have stated, and will again, that there is plenty of 'evidence' that the sun circles the earth,
when actually, it is the earth that is turning, and the earth itself is actually circling the sun. But medieval
thinkers had "the evidence" and it was "overwhelming." But it wasn't true, either.==

John Armstrong's hypothesis might not be perfect but it's as good as it can be with the info he had.

==I wish he had interviewed me. He decided that, because I wasn't pregnant, I could not have posed
as Marina. He jumped to conclusions.

He missed a witness, based on his assumption that I had to be pregnant if I posed as Marina.

He forgot that Marina was all but sequestered.

She never went to the French Quarter, for example.

And I posed as Marina BEFORE she arrived in New Orleans.

Note that when Marina and Ruth Paine visited the French Quarter in late September, before Marina was
taken to Irving Texas -- at which time she and Lee wept because he told her they probably would never
meet again -- for Lee and I had planned to marry in Mexico -- (see the 'official version' book MARINA
AND LEE). He was soon ordered back to Dallas after the mission he had in Mexico City was called off --
though they'd promised him he could stay.

That night just before leaving New Orleans, when Marina and Ruth went to the French Quarter, Lee did
not go with them.

Lee and I had spent a lot of time in the French Quarter. He did not want to be seen with Marina and Ruth
in case somebody might have called out, "Oswald! Where's Marina?" So he did not go with them.They took
the kids with them...he stayed behind, by himself...==

JVB[/quote]

a) I find this difficult to believe. I would think that if LHO was being run as an agent out of Angleton’s office through the ONI then surely Robert Webster would have been run the same way. Webster defected two weeks before Oswald and then miraculously re-defected two weeks before. There was no attempt to generate records to make it seem that Webster had never gone to the USSR. It was common knowledge, reported in the newspapers, according to him he knew Marina Prusakova, he worked for the RAND Corporation, and there seems no special dispensation afforded upon his return to the U.S.A. like the one you believe was going to be afforded Lee if it wasn’t for his “meddling” mother. It doesn’t add up. Why run an agent and then try to eradicate or alter records to show they didn’t go? I would assume that the USSR would keep their records? Newspaper articles can’t go down the Nineteen –Eighty Four memory hole? People like Guy Banister would still have records.

b. Whether Lee worked at Pfisterer is not the issue. I think we can all take it as read that Lee worked there. It is the year that he worked there that is of significance. McBride claims he knew Lee at Pfisterer between December 1957 and May 1958. If this is correct then we have a second Oswald in the Marines during this time period. The Warren Commission dealt with this by pushing back the date of Oswald’s employment to 1956.On the subject of Lee’s interest in astrology, McBride claims that Oswald knew very little about the subject. When he was introduced to William Wulf (President of the New Orleans Astronomy Club), Wulf claims that Oswald knew so little about it that he wondered why he wanted to join. Oswald seemed to use the meeting he attended at Wulf’s house to look through the political books and argue with the other members about communism. The exchanges becoming so heated that Wulf’s father threw him out the house. Wulf also claimed to know Oswald in 1958, not 1956 as per the Warren Commission.

c) Is the suggestion here that LHO never went to Mexico City within the currently accepted timeframes? I fully appreciate that he was impersonated by person/persons but when did he go?

d) It is the Sport Drome event (Sunday, November 17th) that grabs my attention. Oswald was identified by Garland Slack after Oswald shot up Garland targets whilst “burning up ammunition.” The element of this story that gives it a greater meaning is that Slack was insistent that a guy by the name of Frazier from Irving had brought Lee to the range. Earleen Roberts claimed that Lee didn’t go anywhere that day and its greater importance is that Oswald was supposed to be in Irving over the weekend visiting his kids.

e) If it's Lee at Sylvia Odio's house then he can't be going south. So, again, LHO didn’t go to Mexico City?

f) The thing that gets me about the Red Bird Air Field situation is this. Wayne January stated that on the morning of 20th November 1963 someone who claims to be Oswald was trying to charter a plane. Yes, you are right, he was supposed to be in the TSBD but if this job was a cover then it’s feasible that he could leave whenever he wanted. The problem I have with this is who was running the cover for him in the TSBD? I am familiar with the work of Richard Gilbride regarding his theory that certain employees in the TSBD were involved in the assassination and I am open to this idea. The spanner in the works is this. On Wednesday 20th of November at 10:30am Ralph Yates picked up a man who he claims was Oswald and took him to the TSBD carrying a package that the “Oswald” stated were “…curtain rods.” So, do we again have two Oswald’s to account for? Assuming there isn’t a third in the TSBD.


g) He must have worked there at some point. Even if it’s to maintain a cover you have to be there so people see you actually working. It would appear that this guy spent less time at work than Homer Simpson.
Here is John Armstrong’s breakdown of who saw LHO at the TSBD at the described times on November 22nd:
8:00 am --- Wesley Frazier, Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce, Roy Truly, Jack Dougherty
8:00 am until noon --- William Shelley --- "I saw him periodically all morning"
8:30 am --- Wesley Frazier
9:00 am --- James Jarman
10:00 am --- Roy Lewis, Eddie Piper
11:00 am --- Jack Dougherty, Wesley Frazier
11:30 am --- James Jarman, Bonnie Ray Williams
11:50 am --- William Shelley, Danny Arce
12:00 noon --- Jack Dougherty, Eddie Piper
12:15 pm --- Mrs. R.E. Arnold
Oswald’s presence in the Jiffy store was at 8:30am. He bought beer resulting in showing his driver license. The store clerk, Fred Moore, claims that he returned at 9:00am to buy some peco brittle. Now,either Fred Moore is mistaken, the TSBD employees are lying or there are two Oswald’s. Multiple people also saw LHO at the Top Ten Records store on Jefferson at 7:30am, this was whilst he was supposedly on his way to the TSBD with BW Frazier.

h) Agreed on the points concerning impersonation at the Texas Theater. Although we also have Roger Craig’s sighting of the “double” leaving the TSBD in the Nash Rambler and the other LHO leaving the area by bus and cab.

i) There were more than two wallets.

j) I would say that’s it’s more than possible that he could drive. But that doesn’t explain the guy driving the Red Ford Falcon. You see, T.F. White saw him sitting in it in a car park a block away from Davis Street. At this point in time Lee Harvey Oswald was already under arrest and on his way to the city jail.

k) I would again reiterate that I think it possible he could drive but obviously someone was using his driving license (you suggest Lee didn't carry it) if we are to believe the observations of Fred Moore from the Jiffy Store.

I appreciate your replies to my questions Judyth and I will continue to wade through all this information. Oh, and thanks to you Jim for posting it...

Lee
[/quote]

[Dawn Meredith]

Jack, I am reposting from EF your bio of John Armstrong. Thank you for that. He was very circumspect when I met him in Dallas. You are right, not at all egotistical. Not pushing his book. Just fascinating to speak with and I could tell he had made some money in the building trades. (One does not get to live in Hawaii unless one has accumulated some decent income).

I just DO NOT UNDERSTAND why anyone seeks to destroy this work. To what end? I question the motives of such a person or people.
Dawn

Dean:

Whatever one thinks about Harvey and Lee, it is a very unique book in that many of its premises could be proved with witnesses who are still living and evidence that continues to be very impressive. I did not agree with Armstrong on the impact of every piece of the evidence but some of the evidence is jaw-dropping. Watch the interviews and read the book. John Armstrong conducted one of the most impressive investigations of the JFK case ever done. John is unique in that he lets the evidence speak for itself. I believe you or I (or any attorney) could go into court and easily prove that the government was engaged in a covert activity and was manipulating the identities of Oswald. Jack White is not making outrageous comments about the evidence. Whether you agree with him or not on other issues the evidence here is very solid. I am not commenting on Judyth and whether this makes a difference for her argument. I am simply agreeing with Jack that John Armstrong has compiled a mountain of evidence and the fact that individual pieces of the evidence might be questioned in no way detracts from the volumess of evidence John acquired.

John engaged in his research in a thorough and painstakiing manner. John is actually a very modest man. One of the differences between him and myself are in examples like John Pic. John located him but was very reserve in his contacts whereas I would have been knocking at Pic's door. What is amazing is how much more evidence Armstrong acquired but did not publish. John was fortunate to have the resources to do what few of us could have. I deeply respect John's work. It does not detract from other work I highly respect such as Lifton's. I predict the work of both will withstand the test of time. I have always realized that my credibility could be destroyed by being led down false roads. It is the tragedy of Garrison. I have been extremely cautious. However, I stand unequivocally behind these two men.

Best,

Doug Weldn



Thanks, Doug...an excellent analysis. Among your most important points John's MODESTY and RESTRAINT.

He has the LEAST EGO OF ANY RESEARCHER I KNOW. He entered JFK research at a very late date (1990s)
with his mind a blank notebook with NO PREVIOUS INFORMATION. Therefore he was untainted with much
that had happened for the previous 30 years. Once intrigued by the video THE MANY FACES OF LEE HARVEY
OSWALD, he was hooked and decided to find out for himself by trying to find out who Oswald was AS IF
IT WERE A BUSINESS PROJECT such as had thrice made him quite wealthy. He made independent fortunes
first in HOMEBUILDING in Alaska, developing a business model which concentrated on luxury dwellings for
those moving there to develop oil and natural resources. After several years of success, he decided to move
to the Midland Texas area to pursue the OIL BUSINESS. He developed a business model which used
computer technology and a study of oil markets to trade in oil futures. He is sorta a genius at seeing
business plans in the marketplace. Trading in oil futures does not depend on drilling oil wells, but on
accurate guessing about those who do. He developed computer graphing programs which traced trading in
oil futures over a period of years and noted periodic predictable spikes in highs and lows, which allowed
him to guess with remarkable accuracy how oil was traded. He made a second fortune in the oil business,
and retired in Tulsa where he still dabbled in oil. But John is a restless guy, always looking for a NEW
CHALLENGE. He noted that fortunes were being made in a little publicized area of finance...TRADING IN
COMMODITIES FUTURES. (commodities are such mundane things as "pork bellies"). He studied the
market and developed another business model, using his computer graphs to predict futures trading
like he had done in oil...and made his third fortune. He was seeking a new challenge in the 1990s when
he read some JFK books and watched some documentaries. He saw THE MANY FACES OF LHO and began
to wonder JUST WHO IS THIS GUY OSWALD? LHO he soon found was the most UNDERSTUDIED part
of 11-22-63. He decided to approach it like he would with a business venture...with logic and a
"business model" and his laptop computer. This time he was not out to make a fourth fortune...he
was only looking for the SATISFACTION OF KNOWING WHO OSWALD WAS. He began gathering
all the evidence he could, and noting it in his computer. Like his business models, he quickly saw a
pattern emerging. By entering searchable dates and places in his computer, he found MULTIPLE
INSTANCES WHERE THE OFFICIAL RECORD SHOWED LHO IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD
AT THE SAME TIME. He started separating these into TWO TIMELINES of TWO DIFFERENT individuals.
That was the genesis of H&L. It took him 12 years, but he finally self-published all that he had
found. He spent a year in China getting the book published as economically as possible. He was
satisfied. He knew who LHO really was. He wanted to share it with the research community, which
he had never been a part of. It was time to move on the the next challenge...back to his first love,
building luxury homes (in Hawaii). He lives in a luxurious estate he built overlooking the Pacific, in
a tropical paradise. He no longer devotes any time to JFK research. Why should he? He found
what he had wanted to know.

To show how thorough his research was, he used NO INFORMATION in the book unless he had
two different sources on a subject. He flew around the world gathering information and interviews,
to places like Argentina, Switzerland, New York, Washington, New Orleans, Ohio, Florida and
many other places seeking single bits of information. He employed Britisher Malcolm Blunt
as his research assistant. He asked me to help with certain tasks, mostly involving photos.
He collected every known photo of LHO or his family. He purchased copies of every document
which mentioned any member of the Oswald family. He organized them into 50+ 4-inch ring
binders by timelines, and entered the gist of each record into his computer. He visited every
site mentioned in a document, where practical. He and I, for instance, spent a day driving
around Fort Worth to see and photograph EVERY school or residence mentioned in a document.
We drove to nearby Benbrook to get a feel for where the Oswalds lived as a child. I was
present when he interviewed Georgia Bell, who lived there across from the Oswalds. We
visited the nearby house where Robert lived. We went to the nearby elementary school,
where John went inside and inquired about LHO school records. We went to the county
courthouse, where he searched records for all the properties owned by Marguerite. I was
present when he interviewed Franchetta Schubert, who had been a fellow student at
Stripling with LHO, and knew where he and Marguerite lived.

John published NOTHING UNLESS he could prove it, showing great restraint. No rumors or
theories...just facts.

When finished, he went back to his specialty of making money, disdaining being a JFK
research celebrity. He prefers the anonymity of sitting in his Pacific paradise, talking
on his cellphone to his broker in New York, and buying and selling commodity futures.

He is a very private guy who wants no limelight. he likes it that way.

Jack

[James H. Fetzer]

JIM RESPONDS TO DOUG WELDON (WHO APPEARS TO HAVE HOMEWORK BEFORE HIM)

Then I can't wait for you to respond to the twenty or so posts that demonstrate John Armstrong
appears to be mistaken, inaccurate or wrong in various aspects of his research. And if enough
of those individual pieces fall into this category, then the theory "Harvey" and "Lee" will fall with
them. No doubt, there is ample evidence there to prove "that the government was engaged in
a covert activity and was manipulating the identities of Oswald." That, of course, also follows if
the agency was using multiple impostors, including his own brother, Robert, to impersonate him
on various occasions. If you check it, you will see that Judyth and I have noticed various errors
in his work. If you haven't studied them, then you seem to be poorly positioned to endorse them.

[quote name='Doug Weldon' post='189773' date='Apr 16 2010, 02:30 AM']
[quote name='Dean Hartwell' post='189723' date='Apr 15 2010, 06:00 AM']
Doug,

You had a question about my comment:

With my legal background, I focus on how much evidence is needed to prove a certain point. Proving HARVEY and LEE requires a great deal of evidence because it is so specific.

Perhaps you missed my earlier post where I use CAPS to refer to HARVEY and LEE as a "2-Oswald theory." To prove this particular theory requires a great deal of evidence.

Dean[/quote]


Dean:

Whatever one thinks about Harvey and Lee, it is a very unique book in that many of its premises could be proved with witnesses who are still living and evidence that continues to be very impressive. I did not agree with Armstrong on the impact of every piece of the evidence but some of the evidence is jaw-dropping. Watch the interviews and read the book. John Armstrong conducted one of the most impressive investigations of the JFK case ever done. John is unique in that he lets the evidence speak for itself. I believe you or I (or any attorney) could go into court and easily prove that the government was engaged in a covert activity and was manipulating the identities of Oswald. Jack White is not making outrageous comments about the evidence. Whether you agree with him or not on other issues the evidence here is very solid. I am not commenting on Judyth and whether this makes a difference for her argument. I am simply agreeing with Jack that John Armstrong has compiled a mountain of evidence and the fact that individual pieces of the evidence might be questioned in no way detracts from the volumess of evidence John acquired.

John engaged in his research in a thorough and painstakiing manner. John is actually a very modest man. One of the differences between him and myself are in examples like John Pic. John located him but was very reserve in his contacts whereas I would have been knocking at Pic's door. What is amazing is how much more evidence Armstrong acquired but did not publish. John was fortunate to have the resources to do what few of us could have. I deeply respect John's work. It does not detract from other work I highly respect such as Lifton's. I predict the work of both will withstand the test of time. I have always realized that my credibility could be destroyed by being led down false roads. It is the tragedy of Garrison. I have been extremely cautious. However, I stand unequivocally behind these two men.

Best,

Doug Weldn
[/quote]