Death of the lunchroom hoax

[David Josephs]

Richard... I took your reply and crafted a response to what you ask... my replies are in bold blue
your words remain in black without italic.
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This new mega-essay is not an attack on Bart Kamp. It is an attack on the unsuspecting readers who fell for Sean Murphy's mullarkey. Bart has to be critiqued for his error-riddled thesis, which masquerades as award-winning scholarship. It's a garbage theory he's being the huckster for.

David Josephs: "MANY people were leaving and moving about in the TSBD at that [lunchroom scene] time... something Richard fails to mention..."
Bullcrap. No one has put more work into which specific people were in which specific place inside the TSBD than myself. You never bother reading my material, which is all publicly-available. Maybe you can enlighten us as to which people were moving where, and when, David? And do try to incorporate that into the theme and space of that section of your essay.

Take a breath Richard…. I've done the analysis like you… Are you telling me you don't recall the group of men at the back door letting people in and out? The old colored man who just sits back there, I believe Haygood and/or Harkness - who were with Sawyer - see this man and actually leaves him in charge of guarding the back door....

Mr. BELIN - What does it say there on that transcript?
Mr. HARKNESS - "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository store at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Mr. BELIN - All right, that was at 12:36 p.m.?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Had the building been sealed off at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS - Not to my knowledge. There were several officers around it, but I don't know whether it had been sealed off or not.

Mr. BELIN - Then am I correct that your testimony is that you didn't notice whether people were coming in and out? Did you notice, or did you not notice whether people were coming out of the building at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS - Several officers at the area, and it was a lot of people around. I don't know whether they were going in or out or not. I couldn't say that.
Mr. BELIN - Then you went around to the back of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Was anyone around in the back when you got there?
Mr. HARKNESS - There were some Secret Service agents there. I didn't get them identified. They told me they were Secret Service.

Mr. SAWYER. Well, they had it covered when I got there. There were officers all around the front. The only thing I don't think had been done by the time I got there, was the instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. All right, now, did you give the instructions not to let anyone in or out?
Mr. SAWYER. I did.
Mr. BELIN. Did you give those instructions before or after you came down from the fourth floor or top floor?
Mr. SAWYER. After I got down. (note: we are now after 12:38.. have you seen the images of people streaming back into and out of the TSBD front, let alone who was in and out of the rear-doors)

Mrs. REID. I couldn't tell you because, you know, I didn't count the floors and I didn't count them, and I made the statement "Oh, I hope they don't think any of our boys have done this" and I had no thoughts of anything like that. I turned and went back in the building.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, let me ask you this then.
Mrs. REID. All right.
Mr. BELIN. Before you turned and went back into the building did you---did Mr. Campbell say anything to you?
Mrs. REID. He said, "Oh, Mrs. Reid, no, it came from the grassy area down this way," and that was the last I said to him.

Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.
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David Josephs: "...yet they are not on the same 'image plane'... nor have you determined a scale..."

Bullcrap. I have provided that scale. Trask determined that Camera Car 3 was approximately 70 feet from the closest point of the TSBD. That closest point wasn't Frazier. The closest point was the east corner of the building. Frazier then measures approximately 75 feet to Camera Car 3. And Camera Car 3 then measures about 76.5 feet to PrayerMan.

Please look at the diagram on p.6; there are two separate drawings of the Darnell camera position, with the TSBD landing drawn to scale. In the real world, off the diagram, the TSBD landing is 4 ft. x 11.5 ft.

And because PrayerMan is at the front of the landing, you can see from my compass arcs that PrayerMan & Frazier are very nearly in the same "image plane"- only a 76.5/75 = 1.04% correction needs to be made for perspective.

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"I'd suggest Richard go to a University which can perform photogrammetry..."

What you have before you, which you apparently unable to discern, is photogrammetry. If you are unhappy with it, why don't you show us your own abilities at photogrammetry? So as to ascertain PrayerMan's height?

What you did with the photo is not photogrammetry Richard… it's best guess with your margin of error much larger than you want to admit… Someone once tried to show that Oswald in the Ferrie CAP photo was the same height as Ferrie… the same depth of field and measurement problems are involved…
He skewed the image my overlay to make Ozzie taller…:



When, if you move Oswald next to Ferrie in the image, you begin to understand the problem with depth and perspective on 2d representation of 3d space. Oswald is obviously not 4'5"




I came up with a scientifically sound estimate of 5' 2 1/2"- nowhere near Oswald's height.

That you come up with a height is not contested… the method and accuracy is what I take issue with Richard…





Tell us why you think PM is in the corner, David. And don't forget to include the Wiegman film forensic that shows the vertical border-strip of the plate-glass partition at PM's east shoulder.
- which proves he was on the front part of the landing.

The landing is actually 5 feet deep, not 4. Frazier is standing much closer to the camera than the person in the corner. The percentage of difference in distance does not equate to the same difference in the measurement. You are aware that focal distance and lens size matters as well…

The words "focal" and "lens" each appear only once in your essay and not in this context… we both know that a 100mm lens or higher from a telephoto lens will distort the perspective much more than say a 35mm lens…. What where these images' lens mm?

The problem here is your 5.2 and 4.4 measurements… your claims of arc and distance do not support the assumption that these two are even close to the same photographic plane… just like the Ferrie image above which exaggerates it… the 1.04% difference in the focal distance equates to a size ratio - how?

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David Josephs: "The button argument is pure conjectural BS... assuming that level of detail is possible results in erroneous conclusions..."

Bullcrap. How do contrast-enhanced artifacts line up in vertical symmetry? They're not random artifacts!!

Any professional photo-analyst would confirm that they are most probably buttons. I still have a faint hope that they're circular pieces of styrofoam.

Once again Richard… subjective interpretation is not corroboration. Assume any resolution you'd like and then tell us within that image how many pixels is a button… when there is much less information than is needed to form an opinion, shapes can start to be seen everywhere…

Let me show you… this is the famous "kneeling assassin" who cleverly blended into the shrubs… we both know there was no one there Richard... doesn't mean someone NOT knowing wouldn't see this person and from then on always see this person.... and can argue that there is an image of the dude so he MUST have been there... simple contrast and brightness...



the same process was used for Badgeman which is simply the patterns in the leaves…. When you color in the sky in Moorman, badgeman disappears.



So yes Richard, I can easily manipulate the image to make it appear that buttons may be there… that doesn't make them buttons (Pixelization is usually vertical and horizontal... just like buttons)

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I have some inside skinny from my high-up JFK contacts in the biz that the guy who got banned from this Deep Politics forum for expressing dissent against that garbage lunchroom hoax theory- well, he done convinced Debra Conway that Bart Kamp's award be revoked. She had nothing to do deciding on the award and it was Larry Hancock's mistake. But the fumage is so strong from those cuckooheads defending the award, they've outlawed free speech as regards anything Murphyesque. Go figure.

Do have a nice day, unless you've made other plans.

IDK what you're referring to here… rather than descend into opinions let's stay with the nuts and bolts facts that help us make a decision…

I'm NOT saying PM is Oswald… I have read too many white lies about who was where to come to any conclusions (Shelley has Lloyd Viles right next to him when he was nowhere near him… I thought maybe PM was Lloyd by process of elimination.)

But I'm also not saying it isn't…. (not sure if you are aware but I believe I've put Shelley and Oswald together in New Orleans at the ITM and how that might bear upon Oswald's time there...)




With regard to the crux of the matter, the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Floor Lunchroom Hoax…. Using Bugliosi as a source is akin to using McAdams or Myers or Posner…. You really have GOT to be kidding us…

Your interpretation of the Baker written statements is also IMHO off… One wonders why the man and Truly would need to write yet another statement on Sept 23[SUP]rd[/SUP] … And Baker even needed to correct that related to the COKE… which conflicts with Reid.

Affidavit 11/22 says one thing… everything after that conflicts with the first day account… and you're all cool with that as THE evidence which puts Oswald in that lunchroom…. Arguably much sooner than anyone admits…

Putting it on the same page really shows the stark contrast between signed statements.... y'know the coke had to go away to reduce the amount of time he was already down in the room to fit the time table...

Are you of the impression Oswald was always in the lunchroom... or that he came down after his doing the shooting, to the lunchroom?

You're not a LNer, so one has to wonder why you feel what Baker writes winds up so different from his testimony and subsequent statement, and for what purpose.... I see it hiding the identity of the man coming down the stairs with Marvin Johnson happily filling in the blanks with his own commentary.

This is how I reply Richard... I truly would like to work together... If I'm wrong and you can illustrate why... great.
Excuse the tangents, that's how my mind works - by example.... with evidence being more tied together within this cover-up[ than would be in real life....