True sponsors:Texan extremists & Military Industrial compex vs eastern establishment

[Seamus Coogan]

Seamus - I have been entirely respectful throughout this thread.

Your resort to abuse is, I'm afraid, disapppointing.

As I've said the Torbitt document did not predict 'Gladio'.

My understanding is that the "Torbitt document" started circulating in samizdat form circa 1970.

Now this is classic. Two of you have now made the misguided call that in dissing the Torbitt documents that I am somehow dissing the Shaw-Permindex-Gkadio link. I have to ask Jan have you read my previous posts? Well no obviously you haven't.

Seamus - you're the one who clearly hasn't read this thread with any care or you would not have made your statement above.




And?

My point, as clearly articulated in this thread, is that appearance of the samizdat Torbitt document circa 1970, after Garrison had lost his case against Clay Shaw, attributing high involvement in the JFK assassination to a then (and now) obscure organisation - namely Permindex and its tentacles - is intriguing.

Particularly if it was a deliberate psyop designed to bury the important link to Permindex.





Seamus - I absolutely hate your tone. And I'll quote it straight back at you in my name.

You don't honestly think I haven't checked up and backed up the dates nor that I know anything about Gladio? Well sorry. I do.

Without Italian PM Andreotti's parliamentary confirmation of the existence of Gladio, Franovich's Gladio documentaries would never have been commissioned, made or broadcast. I know because I've seen the internal BBC file and inquest into those films. I say "inquest" because very senior BBC managers were told, through national security channels, in the strongest terms, that the films should not have been commissioned, made or broadcast.

Andreotti's confirmation enabled senior BBC managers to argue (to save their jobs) that Gladio was a legitimate subject for an investigative historical documentary trilogy.

Until Gladio's existence was acknowledged, there was a whole mass of suspicious material - ranging from Gehlen Org to coups in Greece to the Bologna bombing to the OAS attempted assassination of de Gaulle to the UK's Column 88 to the Red Brigades etc - which could be dismissed by those in power as simply random acts of violence with no connnection to anything larger.

After Gladio's existence was confirmed, that Official Narrative could no longer hold. A few journalists and historians started to investigate these disparate events, and they often succeeded in identifying links to Gladio structures.

Individual cells may have existed in low level isolation but a Strategy of Tension false flag philosophy was increasingly evident.





Seamus - you write "read carefully". There you go again.

There are many articles written by Mae Brussell which have additional meaning and resonance now that we know of the existence of Gladio, and its MO. When she originally wrote those articles, she was often drawing attention to matters that concerned her - that made her antennae twitch - without the benefit of knowing that many of her "Hits" concerned the invisible, secret, structure of Gladio.

Yes they do and Francovichs ballsy work shouldn't be tarred by putting the Torbitt document garbage alongside his stuff. Nor should Brussell's opinions of them nor her work be overlooked or clouded because of it either. She made far more valuable contributions than that. As you clearly no.

As for Crisman, man oh man. Who gives a flying retarded shit? Theres evidence of a whole heap of stuff going down with or without Crismans involvement anyhow. In effect the points you have made Jan are precisely why the Torbitt Documents are so bad they leech off the legitimate work of other people. Furthermore, I suggest anybody concerned about the truth email Kenn Thomas and ask him why he felt the need to libel Jim DiEugenio with regards to Torbitt.

Seamus - by now, as your typos reveal, you're clearly in full stream of consciousness mode. So, I'll cut you some slack as you clearly haven't understood my argument.

There are many researchers who are interested in Fred Lee Crisman - including Peter Levenda, Linda Minor and David Guyatt. I am interested in Crisman because of his role in several highly signficant psyops and/or disinformation operations.

Crisman is, indeed, a very interesting character. More background here:

http://greyfalcon.us/restored/Fred%20Crisman.ht

Twenty-five years after Crisman failed to yield much value for Garrison, he remains much of a mystery. But what can be pieced together indicates Crisman was part and parcel of the seamy underworld of the intelligence community that flourished during the 1950s and '60s.

*Garrison's conclusions

In a lengthy handwritten memo to Jonathan Blackmer, an investigator for the House select committee that re-investigated Kennedy's assassination in the late 1970s and had a keen interest in Crisman, Garrison spelled out what he had concluded about Crisman:

" . . . I suggest the only reasonable conclusion is that he was (and probably is, if still around), an operative at a deep cover level in a long-range, clandestine, intelligence mission directly (in terms of our national intelligence paranoia) related to maintaining national security . . . Crisman emerges as an operative at a supervisory level . . . acquired by the apparatus to carry out the menial jobs that are needed to push a current mission forward, a middle man--in the final analysis--between the mechanics who eliminate, and the handy men, who otherwise support a termination mission, on one hand, and the distant, far removed, deeply submerged command level, on the other."

In Book One of Sinister Forces, Peter Levenda discusses the American "UFO'" sightings of 1947 (pp 168-174). Two key players in establishing the "flying saucer" psyop are the OSS's Fred Lee Crisman and the FBI's Guy Banister.

Seamus - you're perfectly free not to "give a flying retarded shit" about Crisman.

With respect, I disagree, and will continue to disagree.

Hey its all good to have a back and forth Jan. I disagree in many ways but I came across as needlessly heavy handed. Crisman, yes he's an interesting character and I agree theres more to him than meets the eye. The Torbitt document stuff about him is of course dubious. But yeah he is definitely hooked up in disinfo. But theres also a ton of disinfo about Crisman. Hence I tread the path very warily.

Unfortunately for our continued good relations I levelled my sights at Levenda in my new Farrell piece. Farrell quoted him. You'll see it when it comes out. But its a shame Levenda-whom I incidentally took an interest in after seeing a thread with you and Magda discussing him a while back does have some interesting stuff. But the Shaw stuff is really wack and he really let's himself down. Guy Banister the originator of the X-Files? Ummmmm right moving along!!!!!! I emailed Levenda asking for the documentation to all of this (and yes I asked politely and I didn't get a reply) am still waiting!!

In saying that though like I say, I respect your points of views on a lot of things here and no matter when we differ its still the same. Like I said my apologies if the last few posts were a tad antagonistic. Dare I say let battle commence my good fellow!