I agree someone was using Oswalds identity. Richard Case Nagall is a case in point (pardon the pun) - now that IS weird.
I disagree that these photos are evidence of two Oswalds. I am not acusing Jack of manipulating the photos, I just think his interpretation is wrong (as it was on Apollo - massively and embarrassingly).
Jack's heart was in the right place, I just thought he got a lot wrong.
I don't see anything in those photos that set off alarm bells.
John Mooney Wrote:Peter, out of all those pictures there are two I would say are odd. But one of them looks tampered with (someone adding black lines/smudges in the facial crevices) and the other is blurred and washed out. The others are variations in photos that you would see in photos of anyone over a period of time. I'm sure we've all got some weird photos of ourselves or others.
I'm not a great fan of Jack White, god rest him.
I have taken his Apollo photos analysis to task many times over the years. He was well out his depth there.
PS.. I'll say again, I agree someone appears to have been impersonatig Oswald at various points.
John,
Maybe you can do us a favor... Visual inspection of these photos is subjective - you see something, or don't - while others see something else... fine.
the favor: Would you address the supporting evidence separate from the photo comparisons?
There are a number - a LARGE number of instances where events in LEE's life should have been evident on the body of the man Ruby killed
SIDE NOTE: if you can find any single photograph of LEE SMILING which shows his front teeth, please post (other than the Voebel photo below)... every image of OSWALD smiling is HARVEY or has been terribly doctored
like the photo of LEE in Japan.
IOswald's aunt, Lillian Murret,remembered this event well. She told the Warren Commission, "They were coming outof school at 3 o'clock, and there were boys in back of him and one of them called hisname, and he said, 'Lee,' and when he turned around, this boy punched him in themouth and ran, and it ran his tooth through the lip, so she (Marguerite Oswald) had to goover to the school and take him to the dentist, and I paid for the dentist bill myself ..... "
Theone student who turned and faced Voebel and his camera, in a"clowning" pose, was Lee Oswald.
This was the photograph published inLife Magazine and seen by Myra DaRouse, who said this boy was not Harvey Oswald
{photo of exhumed teeth and LEE at Beauregard JHS}
Next we have a mastoid scar that was noted on the USMC Medical Record form when LEE entered the Marines in 1956...
It notes a 3" 'POST' (posterior) scar along with a small 1/2" scar on his left hand.
{1956 USMC MED RECORDS}
When he LEAVES the USMC in 1959 there is an exit MEDICAL RECORD exam that shows a 5'11" 150lb man with
now a 1" Mastoid scar and 3 other identifying marks
{1959 USMC DISCHARGE}
and finally we have the autopsy fact sheet from Oswald's autopsy.... where would we expect the diligent Dr. ROSE (the man pushed aside by the SS when they took JFK & the man who did Tippit's autopsy)
to note all of the marks on the body - as he has for a number of other small scars found on the body...
FINALLY - Please address why the USMC says LEE is 5'11" in 1959 while the Autopsy tells us he's 5'9" in 1963. People generally do not shrink between the ages 21 and 24..
{Autopsy Body Diagram}
Thanks
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
I already said I think there is evidence that Oswald was impersonated at various points.
What am I saying is that the photos are not evidence of an Oswald double from 1947 onwards. I'm sorry but I just honestly don't see it
There is nothing in those photos that is proof of two people.
That's what I am saying and I don't believe I'm the only JFK CT that thinks that.
There does appear to be documents that suggest Oswald was in two places at the same time which could be down to identity theft by intelligence agents. Does Case Nagell look like Oswald? Does the Mexican embassy guy look like Oswald?
I totally reject a Marguerite double, I believe that is her in the young and old pictures.
I think the Harvey and Lee (as dopplegangers) thing is the equivalent of 9/11 no planes.
Identity salting and theft, document shenanigans - yes, elaborate body doubles from childhood - no. It's just way too complicated.
John Mooney Wrote:I already said I think there is evidence that Oswald was impersonated at various points.
What am I saying is that the photos are not evidence of an Oswald double from 1947 onwards. I'm sorry but I just honestly don't see it
There is nothing in those photos that is proof of two people.
That's what I am saying and I don't believe I'm the only JFK CT that thinks that.
There does appear to be documents that suggest Oswald was in two places at the same time which could be down to identity theft by intelligence agents. Does Case Nagell look like Oswald? Does the Mexican embassy guy look like Oswald?
I totally reject a Marguerite double, I believe that is her in the young and old pictures.
I think the Harvey and Lee (as dopplegangers) thing is the equivalent of 9/11 no planes.
Identity salting and theft, document shenanigans - yes, elaborate body doubles from childhood - no. It's just way too complicated.
John,
Everyone seems to have an opinion about the photographs, but you also have to take into account what eyewitnesses said back in the day. You discount John Pic's estimate that step-father Ekdahl was over 6 feet tall, but whose opinion should we count more, John Pic's or yours? Pic got the other details of Ekdahl right on the money: glasses and hair color.
By the same token, consider these two famous photos, taken roughly a year apart:
When shown the photo at left, John Pic said it did not appear to be his brother. Should we believe you, that these two are the same boys, or should we believe LEE Oswald's own half-brother, who said they didn't appear to be?
Well, I'm getting a copy of "Harvey & Lee" in two weeks or so, and after I read it I will update my opinions. I'm not saying that there were two Oswalds since 1947, I'm only saying that it is possible. Is toppling the regime in Iran in 1953 complicated? I think so, so anything less than toppling a a democratically elected regime be it in Iran, Chile, or the USA is kid's stuff.
Everyone seems to have an opinion about the photographs, but you also have to take into account what eyewitnesses said back in the day. You discount John Pic's estimate that step-father Ekdahl was over 6 feet tall, but whose opinion should we count more, John Pic's or yours? Pic got the other details of Ekdahl right on the money: glasses and hair color.
"Estimate". From memory when he was a youth.
I believe there is a tendency for young people to remember adults from their youth as taller. I'm thinking from personal experience. I often wonder a what point I realised my own mother is actually a hobbit.
Quote:By the same token, consider these two famous photos, taken roughly a year apart:
When shown the photo at left, John Pic said it did not appear to be his brother. Should we believe you, that these two are the same boys, or should we believe LEE Oswald's own half-brother, who said they didn't appear to be?
Jim
I'm sorry Jim I don't see enough in those photos to say they are not the same person - do you have any goofy pictures of yourself? You know people do have "odd" pictures of themselves - especially in the old analogue days before you could hit the delete button.
The left photo is LHO as shot by Ruby for sure and anyone can see that. Did John Pic say that guy (the dead by Ruby one) wasn't his brother?
John Mooney Wrote:The left photo is LHO as shot by Ruby for sure and anyone can see that. Did John Pic say that guy (the dead by Ruby one) wasn't his brother?
Gee, anyone can see it except his own half brother! And me. I can't see it.
Pic DID say the guy shot dead by Ruby did not appear to be his brother, in this way.
When shown the picture of HARVEY Oswald passing out FPCC literature (see below) Pic said it did not appear to be his brother. David Josephs and others have pointed this out already.
John Mooney Wrote:I already said I think there is evidence that Oswald was impersonated at various points.
What am I saying is that the photos are not evidence of an Oswald double from 1947 onwards. I'm sorry but I just honestly don't see it
There is nothing in those photos that is proof of two people.
That's what I am saying and I don't believe I'm the only JFK CT that thinks that.
There does appear to be documents that suggest Oswald was in two places at the same time which could be down to identity theft by intelligence agents. Does Case Nagell look like Oswald? Does the Mexican embassy guy look like Oswald?
I totally reject a Marguerite double, I believe that is her in the young and old pictures.
I think the Harvey and Lee (as dopplegangers) thing is the equivalent of 9/11 no planes.
Identity salting and theft, document shenanigans - yes, elaborate body doubles from childhood - no. It's just way too complicated.
Thank you for your opinions John... if you don't see it - you don't.
Stating for a fact that there is nothing in those photos when we have the summer 1953 school records of a 5'4" 115lb boy and the BRONX ZOO photo of supposedly the same child
and he neither looks like LEE and his step-brother agrees, nor is he as big as he is supposed to be.
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Yet I do find it suprising that something you find "complicated" removes it from the realm of possibility.... regardless of the physical evidence.
Or that you can reject a theory yet not actually look a bit more deeply into the MANY details and call out where you feel the evidence led us astray.
There is duplicity running throughout the Oswald/JFK case... a human trait - if it works, keep doing it. T
hose that "ran" the conspiracy were using tried and true techniques for creating confusion and cover-up - successful techniques honed over a decade and a half.
Yet you cannot find it possible that Angleton and the CIA's counterintelligence and Russia divisions would not, COULD NOT consider and pull off something of this magnitude
and then use this deception to hide behind during the investigation in order to keep certain doors permenantly shut...
I respectfully disagree with that conclusion... and am willing to delve as deeply into the actual evidence of the two men, two women and the CIA's powers that were, as you'd like.
DJ
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
John Mooney Wrote:Peter, out of all those pictures there are two I would say are odd. But one of them looks tampered with (someone adding black lines/smudges in the facial crevices) and the other is blurred and washed out. The others are variations in photos that you would see in photos of anyone over a period of time. I'm sure we've all got some weird photos of ourselves or others.
I'm not a great fan of Jack White, god rest him.
I have taken his Apollo photos analysis to task many times over the years. He was well out his depth there.
PS.. I'll say again, I agree someone appears to have been impersonatig Oswald at various points.
Have you read Harvey and Lee, John?
I do not think Harvey and Lee look much alike at all.
Ditto with the two mothers. They are two different women and JA's book proved that to me.
