John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee

[Tracy Riddle]

Irving is only about 6 to 8 miles from downtown Dallas. It's certainly considered a suburb of Dallas, or in the "Dallas area."

[Gordon Gray]

Irving is only about 6 to 8 miles from downtown Dallas. It's certainly considered a suburb of Dallas, or in the "Dallas area."

It's certainly more Dallas than San Antonio. No smoking gun here.

[David Josephs]

Ruth and Wesley corroborate the time of LHO arriving in Irving at about 5:15-5:30.

At no time was LHO in DALLAS that evening, he went straight home with Wesley.

All I am asking is from what SOURCE would this FBI agent write a declarative statement: "Oswald was POSITIVELY PLACED IN DALLAS the evening of the 21st..."
and an investigation is referenced.

I think there's a theory in your responses somewhere, what it is I'm not really sure - yet the FBI or DPD or someone confirms his POSITIVELY being in Dallas... and that he returns home AFTER this ??

Tracy, Gordon... What collateral investigation was done prior to this report that would put Oswald in Dallas the evening of the 21st?
and please reconclide the testimony that supports LHO leaving DALLAS at 4:40 and arriving home before 5:30 with this other report placing OSWALD in DALLAS...

If I introduce this report in court - does it not strongly suggest that someone else was in DALLAS in the evening of 11/21 that the FBI (or someone) thought was Oswald ??
Enough so to state POSITIVELY

If this is LEE with Ruby and Tippit... (we need to find this investigation's report)

DJ

[Tracy Riddle]

David, the report says he was "in the Dallas area." To use a different example, Pasadena, Compton, Beverly Hills and El Monte are all "in the Los Angeles area," roughly the same distance as Irving is from downtown Dallas.

[David Josephs]

David, the report says he was "in the Dallas area." To use a different example, Pasadena, Compton, Beverly Hills and El Monte are all "in the Los Angeles area," roughly the same distance as Irving is from downtown Dallas.

Fair enough Tracy...

maybe just wishful thinking then... "the Dallas Area" is an example of FBI selective vagueness while there are other areas we get specifics where they are useless.

The FBI knew EXACTLY where he was Thursday night... yet there were corroborated reports of him being elsewhere.
Those reports - according to the FBI - were wrong... he wasn't "REGISTERED" elsewhere so he couldn't have been elsewhere

Now WHERE have we heard THAT before ...

::pullhairout::


ps - weren't they sure he was in Irving... ??

[Jim Hargrove]

Len Osanic's 94-minute interview conducted Oct. 3 with John Armstrong and me (Black Op Radio # 650) is here:

http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2013.html

Also interviewed on the same show are Cyril Wecht and John Kelin. Pretty decent company, eh?

Jim

[David Josephs]

When LEE was 17 (not 18 according to the USMC) he was shot by his own pistol...

Not only is the man Ruby killed 2 inches shorter and 30 lbs lighter... there are no scars from what happened to LEE in the Marines in Japan.

Here is the USMC record of said injury:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5377[/ATTACH]


I suggest you try to find a photo of the arrested Oswald's left elbow... other than his arrest photo at DPD... I haven't found any.
But it is more than clear enough to show there are NO SCARS on his elbow as Dr Rose detailed in the autopsy.

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(nor are there any wounds that can be assocaited with the ENTRANCE WOUND from RUBY's GUN)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5379[/ATTACH]

[Jim Hargrove]

Great post, David. Thank you!

In the unlikely event anyone fails to recognize the photo David used to show Harvey Oswald's left elbow, it's a close up from the famous DPD mug shot:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5382[/ATTACH]
Jim

[Bruce Baird]

I have just come to this thread and realize it has died down but I believe there is still much that could be discussed about John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee and the accompanying website.

The series of pictures of "Lee" Oswald (top) and "Harvey" Oswald (bottom) at harveyandlee.net suggest to me there were two Oswalds (if not more!).




But I have some questions about these pictures that I wonder if Mr. Hargrove or Mr. Armstrong could answer. At the website, when you hover your mouse over certain of these pictures a pop-up caption appears.

For example, if you point your mouse at the picture of "Lee" (top row) in 1952 the caption reads:

American-born Lee Oswald in his 6th grade class photo at Riglea [sic] West Elementary School in Ft. Worth. Classmate Richard Garrett told the FBI that Oswald was the "tallest, most dominant" boy in his class.

If you point your mouse at the picture of "Lee" (top row) in 1954 the caption reads:

Ed Voebel took this picture of LEE Oswald in Oct,1954, in the 8th grade at Beauregard Jr. High in New Orleans, shortly after his fight with Johnny Neumeyer. LEE, according to the Warren Commission. Lee was assigned to homeroom #303 on the upper floor. After studying this photo, Myra Darouse said this was not the Oswald she had known in her homeroom in the basement cafeteria of the same school. Click to see interview with Myra DaRouse.

If you point your mouse at the picture of "Harvey" (bottom row) in 1954 the caption reads:

This is HARVEY Oswald, the boy in Myra Darouse's homeroom class in the basement cafeteria during the Spring of 1954. In the fall of 1954 HARVEY was in the 8th grade at Stripling Jr. High in Ft. Worth, while LEE Oswald was still in New Orleans. Click to watch former assistant principal Frank Kudlaty discuss his memory of handing HARVEY Oswald's Stripling school records to FBI agents soon after the assassination. This evidence all disappeared. Also on You Tube is an interview with former student Fran Schubert, who remembered Harvey at Stripling.

My first question concerns the picture of "Harvey" (bottom row) in 1954. This picture comes from the Beauregard Junior High School 1955 Annual Yearbook photo which you can see if go to harveyandlee.net and click on

2011--Poague Library at Baylor University copied more than 101,000 of Mr. Armstong's documents. Click here to access those documents.

then locate

Box Number 18
Notebook Number 07
Tab Number 02
Tab Name: Beauregard 1955

This file contains a copy of what appears to be the entire Beauregard Junior High School 1955 Annual Yearbook. The picture of the student referred to as "Lee Oswald" can be found on page 22 of this yearbook. There are several scans of this photo of "Lee Oswald" in the Poage Library file which can be seen by clicking on Page 13, Page 18, Page 30, Page 34, Page 35, and Page 47.

This yearbook photo covered the 1954-1955 school year and, as I recall, in my experience as both as teacher and a student, yearbook photos have always been taken in the fall of the traditional (September to May/June) school year, so this photo would have been taken at Beauregard in the fall of 1954 when "Harvey" was supposedly in Stripling Jr. High in Ft. Worth. Now how can "Harvey" be at both Beauregard AND Stripling in the fall of 1954?

The caption on this fall 1954 photograph is also confusing. The caption claims that this fall 1954 photo is of "HARVEY Oswald, the boy in Myra Darouse's homeroom class in the basement cafeteria during the Spring of 1954". But if you click on the 1954 "Lee" photo to see the actual interview with Myra Darouse you see her quite actually saying something quite different. Here is my transcript of what Mrs. Larue said:

My name is Myra DaRouse Larue and I began teaching school in Orleans Parish in 1953, September. And my school that I was assigned to was Beauregard Junior High School, which is located on Canal Street. I was a physical education teacher. My second year there I was given a homeroom and I held my roll call either in the cafeteria or on the stage in the basement. Sometime after Christmas I got a new student. It turned out that his name was Lee Harvey Oswald. I never called him Lee Harvey Oswald because he asked me not to call him Lee. And I asked him what he would like to be called, and he said Harvey. So I've known him as Harvey Oswald. My contact with him was just in a homeroom roll call because I only taught girls physical education. But, sometime, how it happened I don't know, he and I became friends. And each afternoon as I did my coaching after school he would always seem to be in the yard sitting around or many times Ed Voebel would come over and Ed lived only a couple of blocks from school and he would come over and that is about the only person that I really saw Harvey socializing with in the time that I knew him." [John Armstrong - Myra DaRouse Larue Interview Part 1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwUsZ8RjIqg]

Watching the entire interview you can see how Mrs. Larue gets confused about actual years that something happened, as I can second is quite natural for a school teacher trying to recall a particular student in the past. But there are some dates that Mrs. Larue is quite certain of. One, that she started teaching at Beauregard in September 1953. Two, that she was given a homeroom her second year at Beauregard, which would have been the 1954-1955 school year.

Later in the interview she mentions that she only taught at Beauregard for three years and had her homeroom in the middle year.

Q: When did you have your homeroom? What year?
A: 54, September of 54 .
Q: That was the only time you had a homeroom?
A: Now [counting] 53? 54? Yeah. Only one.
Q: You worked [unintelligible] for three years?
A. Three years.
Q: And in the middle year, the second year you were there, you had the homeroom.
A: Hmm.
Q. And he was in your homeroom class?
A: Yes." [John Armstrong - Myra DaRouse Larue Interview Part 1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwUsZ8RjIqg, 8:10-8:40]

Based on this interview one would have to conclude that Mrs. Larue first met "Harvey" sometime after Christmas of 1954, not the spring of 1954! And yet the website claims again that "Harvey" was not at Beauregard during the 1954-1955 school year, only the person depicted in the 1954 "Lee" picture.

This 1955 yearbook photo of "Lee Oswald" has a long pedigree. The photo was published above the caption "9TH GRADER LEE OSWALD At Beauregard School." on the front page of the New Orleans States-Item (the afternoon paper) in the Final Edition, Saturday, November 23, 1963 [http://www.knowla.org/image/3958/] THe next morning (November 24, 1963) the photo was published on the front page of the big Sunday edition of The Times-Picayune above the caption "LEE HARVEY OSWALD From school yearbook here." accompanying an article by Paul Atkinson titled "School Doesn't Recall Oswald: Principal, Students Can't Remember Him" [http://www.knowla.org/image/3959/]

It was thus the 1955 yearbook photo of "Lee Oswald" that New Orleanians would have seen as former Beauregard students started coming forth to recall what they remembered about this rather shadowy figure from their past. And yet I have yet to find an interview where the interviewee positively identifies the 1955 Yearbook photo as the Oswald they remember at Beauregard 1954-1955.

The FBI took photographs of the 1955 yearbook picture on 4 Dec 1963. [Poage Library, JFK-John Armstrong Collection, Box 14, Notebook 1, Tab 27 (Yearbook Photo), p. 2] The FBI apparently used the 1955 yearbook photo when interviewing former Beauregard administrators, teachers, and students who might have known Oswald. However, apparently the only explicit mentions of the FBI use of the photo in FBI files is when the subject could not remember Oswald at all. For example, the 27 Jan 1964 interview of Joseph Thompson who attended Beauregard Junior High School 1952-55, Warren Easton High School 1955-59 and 1960-61, and served in the Civil Air Patrol 1955-59. He is also pictured in the 1955 Beauregard year book.

Mr. THOMPSON said that after the assassination of the President, he saw OSWALD's picture in the paper and on television. The accounts related that OSWALD had gone to Beauregard Junior High School and had lived on French Street, only a few blocks away from THOMPSON. Despite this, he was unable to recall OSWALD and was not able to do so even after he examined a Beauregard Junior High School yearbook. [Poage Library, JFK-John Armstrong Collection, Box 14, Notebook 1, Tab 28 (CAP). p. 24.]

See also the interview of Louis Lansford, formerly boys counselor at Beauregard Junior High School. [Poage Library, JFK-John Armstrong Collection, Box 14, Notebook 1, Tab 22 (Interviews with friends). p. 47.]

Although the photo is in his files at Poage Library, John Armstrong curiously does not mention the 1955 yearbook photo even once in Harvey and Lee and does not include the photo in the CD that accompanies the book. It would seem an explanation is in order how "Harvey" can be at Beauregard in the fall of 1954 when "Harvey" is supposed to be at Stripling in Ft. Worth and "Lee" is the only Oswald supposedly at Beauregard.

Moreover, what are WE to make of this 1955 yearbook photo? Is this a picture of "Harvey", "Lee", or somebody else? The 1954 "Harvey" in the photo montage above certainly seems quite strikingly similar to the older 1959 "Harvey" and significantly different from the 1952 "Lee". And how does one explain the 1954 "Lee" picture with its odd posture that does not really look like any of the other pictures but yet was supposedly taken in English 202 at Beauregard Junior High School in October 1954, around the same time the 1955 yearbook picture would have been taken?

[Bruce Baird]

In my submission I included the photo montage of the different "Lee" and "Harvey" photos from 1952-1959 that I copied from harveyandlee.net so that list members could see the photos without having to go to the website. But apparently that did not work! Can somebody tell me how to post this photo montage or do it for me?

Thanks so much,

Bruce