Just seems to me that any discussion about "Oswald" must include H&L distinctions....
I believe we are the point where denying H&L as fact is the same as denying JFK as a conspiracy... counter-productive and coming to conclusions without understanding the evidence.
Like the conspiracy in total, the coincidences and contradictions cannot be ignored or countered.
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
In post #18 yesterday, Tracy Riddle posed some interesting questions about Armstrong's take on the Tippit shooting. I thought the questions were interesting enough to ask John about them. Here's John's response:
I began looking into the Tippit shooting and the Texas Theater in much the same way that I began looking into the backgrounds of Harvey and Lee. For me the challenge has never been to try and solve any part of the Kennedy assassination, but rather to uncover the truth to the many unanswered questions and then let those answers tell as much of the story as possible. It sounds simple, but finding the truth can sometimes be very elusive.
The following unanswered questions surrounding the Tippit murder were the same to me as to most serious minded researchers:
1) what was Tippit doing at the GLOCO Station? 2) why did he drive off hastily and turn right on Lancaster, right again on Jefferson Blvd., and stop at the Top 10 Record Store to make a phone call? 3) who was driving the police car that Earlene Roberts saw in front of her house while LHO was changing clothes? 4) how could LHO be standing at the corner of Beckley and Zhang at 1:04 pm and then appear in the Texas Theater 5-6 minutes later? 5) how could LHO walk from Beckley to 10th & Patton or directly to the Texas Theater without being seen by anyone? 6) why did multiple witnesses see LHO walking west from Marsalis St. toward 10th & Patton, which directly contradicts the WC findings that he was walking east? 7) why did nearly every witness report that LHO was wearing a white t-shirt and a light colored jacket ? (what about the long-sleeved dark brown shirt?) 8) why did Tippit stop and talk with LHO in an apparently friendly manner?
9) why did Benavides report that LHO's hairline was "squared off", when the hairline of the man arrested at the Texas Theater was well below his collar? 10) why was the coat found in the parking lot behind the Texaco Station size "M" when all of LHO's clothing was size "S" ? 11) if LHO was in the Texas Theater at 1:10 pm, then how could Johnny Brewer have seen him at 1: 25 pm? 12) why was a 2nd wallet left at the Tippit murder scene? 13) why did nobody see this wallet lying on the ground? 14) why did police reports say the "suspect" was hiding in the balcony of the Texas Theater? 15) why did several police reports state that LHO was arrested in the balcony?
Where to begin?
Some of Tippit's actions following the assassination were suspicious, while others clearly violated police procedure. There has never been a good explanation for Tippit sitting at the GLOCO Station watching traffic, quickly leaving the station, turning right on Lancaster, turning right on Jefferson, and then placing a phone call at the Top 10 Record Store. To me his actions, only 20-30 minutes after the assassination, appear suspicious. Also suspicious was when Tippit stopped and talked to a citizen (Oswald), while failing to notify his dispatcher and then getting out of his vehicle. But when Tippit was shot and killed by Oswald my suspicions increased. And my suspicions increased dramatically when, after (HARVEY) Oswald was arrested and sitting in jail, another (LEE) Oswald was seen driving a car with license plates that belonged to Tippit's best friend, Carl Mather. Researchers can decide for themselves whether or not Tippit was somehow involved in the conspiracy. Based upon Tippit's actions, I chose to believe that he was somehow involved, but how?
I began by believing, like many of us, that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy with participants who were given, and followed, orders and a pre-set plan. I began to wonder why Tippit was at the Dobbs House Restaurant at 10:00 am on Wednesday (two days before the assassination), while (LEE) Oswald sitting at the next table. At the same time (HARVEY) Oswald was miles away in downtown Dallas working at the TSBD. Two days later, only 20 minutes after the assassination, Tippit was miles away from his assigned location and sitting in his patrol car at the GLOCO Station, probably watching the approaching traffic. As a participant Tippit was following orders, but I wondered whether his assignment was to be a "friend" or "foe" of Oswald. The answer was obvious. Had Tippit been a "foe" then he would likely have "done his duty" and shot (LEE) Oswald at 10th & Patton. But as a "friend" of Oswald then his presence in Oak Cliff had a purpose. I began to wonder if Tippit's assignment could have been to drive both HARVEY and LEE to their assigned destinations at the Texas Theater. After all, that's where both of them ended up. And then I began to wonder if Tippit was sitting at the GLOCO Station, waiting for the bus to arrive with (HARVEY) Oswald. But the bus turned left on Marsalis and (HARVEY) Oswald did not get off the bus.
Tippit then drove south on Lancaster and reported his position to his dispatcher. Was he following McWaters bus? Tippit then turned right on Jefferson Blvd. Did he finally realize that Oswald was not on the bus? Tippit drove to the Top 10 Record Store and made a phone call at 1:00 pm. Was he trying to locate Oswald? A few minutes later a police car was seen by Earlene Roberts honking the horn in front of her rooming house while LHO was in his room changing clothes. Was this Tippit? A few minutes later Earlene Roberts saw (HARVEY) Oswald standing at the corner of Beckley and Zhang, at 1:04 pm. A few minutes later, at 1:10 pm, (HARVEY) Oswald was seen by Butch Burroughs and theater patrons at the Texas Theater. Somehow, (HARVEY) Oswald managed to arrive at the Texas Theater within 5 minutes, but was not seen by a single person walking thru the Dallas suburb of Oak Cliff. The most likely explanation is that he was driven to the theater, probably by Tippit. HARVEY bought a ticket from Julia Postal, purchased pop corn from Butch Burroughs, and was sitting next to Jack Davis before Tippit was shot at 10th & Patton. (the preceding scenario answers questions 1 thru 5)
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At 11:40 pm, a Nash Rambler stopped at the grassy knoll in Dealy Plaza and picked up a passenger wearing a white t-shirt, who was identified by several witnesses as (LEE) Oswald. Oswald was next seen shortly after 1:00 pm in Oak Cliff, but now (LEE) Oswald was wearing a white t-shirt, a light colored jacket, and was carrying a concealed weapon. Where did (LEE) Oswald get a jacket and a gun? Perhaps from the man driving the Nash Rambler, or perhaps from Jack Ruby's apartment (Marsalis St) where he was seen the previous evening by neighbor Helen McIntosh. Numerous witnesses saw (LEE) Oswald, wearing a white t-shirt and light colored jacket, as he walked west toward 10th & Patton from the direction of Marsalis (Ruby's apartment?) (question 6, 7). A few minutes later some of these witnesses saw (LEE) Oswald talking with Tippit thru the passenger car window. (LEE) Oswald was clearly walking west on 10th St, and not walking east as stated by the WC. Tippit was driving east on 10th St, away from the Texas Theater. Near 10th & Patton Tippit slowly drove to the curb, stopped, and began talking with the man he had seen at the Dobbs House Restaurant the day before yesterday. I began to wonder if Tippit's assignment was to drive LEE, like HARVEY, to the Texas Theater and this was the reason for their meeting and friendly conversation (question 8).
After the shooting the closest witness, Domingo Benavides, watched (LEE) Oswald walk away and noticed that his hairline was "squared off" (question 9), but (HARVEY) Oswald's hairline was not squared off and was well down past his collar. (LEE) Oswald was seen by multiple witnesses as he left the scene. As he hurried thru the Texaco Parking lot he left his medium-sized light colored jacket under a car which was later found by police. All of (HARVEY) Oswald's clothing was size small, but (LEE) Oswald was a larger individual and probably wore size "M". A jacket very similar in appearance to the one found in the Texaco parking lot was worn by LEE Oswald in 1958, and was photographed by his brother Robert Oswald (question 10).
After (LEE) Oswald discarded his jacket at the Texaco parking lot he was wearing a white t-shirt (no long-sleeved dark brown shirt), and was so described by several police dispatches. While (HARVEY) Oswald, wearing a dark brown long-sleeve shirt, was sitting in the Texas Theater (according to several witnesses) shoe store worker Johnny Brewer claimed that he saw "Oswald" in his doorway wearing a dark brown long-sleeved shirt. Someone is lying--either the numerous witnesses in the Texas Theater or Johnny Brewer (question 11).
A wallet appeared at the scene of the Tippit murder. But nobody saw this wallet lying on the ground (witnesses, ambulance attendants, police, etc). Nobody saw the wallet because it first "appeared" in the hands of Captain Westbrook, and this wallet contained identification for Oswald and Hidell (question 12). How convenient.............now the police had the name of the person who shot Tippit and the name of the person who ordered the rifle from Klein's that was found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. And how coincidental that following the assassination of President Kennedy, Westbrook travelled to South Vietnam where he acted as a "special advisor" (CIA) to the Saigon police force.
Several police reports stated that (LEE) Oswald was in the balcony at the Texas Theater. When the police arrived at the front of the theater, they were told the man they were looking for was in the balcony. A deputy sheriff saw (LEE) Oswald as he was walking up the stairs that lead to the balcony and said he was certain the man he saw was "Oswald." (question 14). The sheriff heard a commotion on the lower level and ran back down the stairs where (HARVEY) Oswald was apprehended and arrested. Several police reports stated that Oswald was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater (question 15).
Most of the unanswered questions surrounding the murder of JD Tippit can be answered by closely following a timeline and the whereabouts of Tippit, HARVEY, and LEE. However, I will be the first to admit that proving every aspect of this scenario is probably impossible. If someone can suggest an alternate scenario that better answers the above questions then please do so, because we all desire to know the truth.
====================== QUOTE OFF ===================
Thanks for the response Jim & John, however those questions were not the ones I posed earlier.
By the way, I've just noticed in various photos that Harvey has broader, squarer shoulders than Lee, whose shoulders slope down at almost a 45 degree angle.
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Thanks for the response Jim & John, however those questions were not the ones I posed earlier.
By the way, I've just noticed in various photos that Harvey has broader, squarer shoulders than Lee, whose shoulders slope down at almost a 45 degree angle.
Right, but I tried my best to answer them right after your post, and you didn't reply. See post #19 on page 2 if you missed it.
As I've said before, my major problem with John Armstrong's Tippit murder theory is that he ignores evidence that doesn't fit it. In The Men Who Killed Kennedy, Helen Markham and Ted Callaway are both interviewed at the scene and they demonstrate on camera where they each saw the escaping gunman. They are clearly describing different people running in different directions.
Markham points to where she says the man run across a yard, "went over the fence and down the alley" between two houses. He was wearing a light shirt, a brown jacket, and light grey trousers. He was short, small man with a ruddy complexion.
Callaway describes how he saw a man "jump through the hedge, carrying a pistol, and he angled across the street to the sidewalk." He was wearing a black pair of trousers, white shirt, light tan or light grey windbreaker. He had a "real fair complexion," dark hair.
Armstrong also doesn't discuss the evidence that Tippit was known in the neighborhood and was seen there frequently. There are many other things, but McBride's new book Into the Nightmare sums up the Tippit murder case better than anyone I've read. And he doesn't have a solution to it either.
EXACTLY!! These witnesses make our point precisely!
LEE Oswald was wearing a white or light colored shirt, and was seen that way by many witnesses from the early morning of assassination day until after the hit. See JA's description of what happened to his jacket at:
Tracy Riddle Wrote:As I've said before, my major problem with John Armstrong's Tippit murder theory is that he ignores evidence that doesn't fit it. In The Men Who Killed Kennedy, Helen Markham and Ted Callaway are both interviewed at the scene and they demonstrate on camera where they each saw the escaping gunman. They are clearly describing different people running in different directions.
BUT NOBODY, NOBODY SAW TIPPIT TALKING TO MORE THAN ONE PERSON. NOT A SINGLE WITNESS SAW MORE THAN ONE PERSON WALKING WEST ON PATTON. BENAVIDES, THE CLOSEST WITNESS, SAW THE MAN WHO SHOT TIPPIT WALK AWAY, ALONE. SCOGGINS SAW ONE MAN. JIMMY BURT SAW ONE MAN. CALLAWAY SAW ONE MAN. JACK TATUM SAW ONE MAN.
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Markham points to where she says the man run across a yard, "went over the fence and down the alley" between two houses. He was wearing a light shirt, a brown jacket, and light grey trousers. He was short, small man with a ruddy complexion.
AND PLEASE TELL US THE TIME THAT MARKHAM SAYS THIS HAPPENED?
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Callaway describes how he saw a man "jump through the hedge, carrying a pistol, and he angled across the street to the sidewalk." He was wearing a black pair of trousers, white shirt, light tan or light grey windbreaker. He had a "real fair complexion," dark hair.
CALLAWAY IS CREDIBLE, AND HE NEVER MENTIONED A DARK BROWN SHIRT.
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Armstrong also doesn't discuss the evidence that Tippit was known in the neighborhood and was seen there frequently.
THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 11/22/63. DID A SINGLE WITNESS TO TIPPIT'S MURDER KNOW HIM??? DID ANYONE WHO GATHERED AROUND THE SITE KNOW TIPPIT??
Tracy Riddle Wrote:There are many other things, but McBride's new book Into the Nightmare sums up the Tippit murder case better than anyone I've read. And he doesn't have a solution to it either.
I NEVER SAID THAT I HAD THE SOLUTION TO THE TIPPIT MURDER. I SAID THAT MY SCENARIO ANSWERS MOST OF THE PREVIOUSLY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS. IF ANYONE HAS AN ALTERNATE SCENARIO THAT ANSWERS THESE QUESTIONS, PLEASE POST.
All above replies posted verbatim from John Armstrong.
Jim/John: Acquilla Clemons saw two men fleeting the scene, one heavy and one slender. Doris Holan saw two men and a cop car going up the alley. Frank and Mary Wright saw a man in a long coat get into a grey car.
Even though only one man was talking to Tippit, because of the positions of many of the witnesses, they could easily have missed seeing another person or car involved.
In the video interview, Markham was describing the man who shot Tippit; she didn't give a time, but it happened seconds later, as he ran past her.
It is very significant if Tippit had frequently been in that neighborhood, where he did not live and was not his patrol district. Jimmy Earl Burt (FBI report): "BURT later recognized him as being an officer who frequented that neighborhood. This particular officer was known by the name "Friendly" to the residents of that area." Virginia Davis let slip in her WC testimony: "It was parked between the hedge that marks the apartment house where he lives in and the house next door." She would later change her story for Dale Myers. Scoggins: "I noticed he stopped down there, and I wasn't paying too much attention to the man, you see, just used to see him every day…"
Private researchers later found other people in the neighborhood who refused to go on record, but said they had been witnesses, or had seen Tippit in that area before, or other things that didn't fit with the official story.
Quote:
CALLAWAY IS CREDIBLE, AND HE NEVER MENTIONED A DARK BROWN SHIRT.
I didn't say anything about a dark brown shirt. I don't think Oswald was there.
Quote:
I NEVER SAID THAT I HAD THE SOLUTION TO THE TIPPIT MURDER.
I have to disagree. You claim that Lee killed Tippit and then the murder was used to frame Harvey.
People may have been seen leaving the scene for many reasons, but no one saw more than one man shoot Tippit, and as you pointed out, many said the shooter wore a light colored jacket over a white shirt. A wallet containing Hidell ID and a Texas Driver's license for "Lee Harvey Oswald" was either dropped at the scene or brought there by someone, John suspects Westbrook.
John says he hasn't necessarily solved the Tippet murder, but I think he has.
LEFT: American-born LEE Oswald in 1958 photo by Robert Oswald and appearing in Robert's book, Lee.
RIGHT: The jacket found under a car by the Texaco station after the Tippit slaying. Could these two
jackets be the same?
People may have been seen leaving the scene for many reasons, but no one saw more than one man shoot Tippit, and as you pointed out, many said the shooter wore a light colored jacket over a white shirt. A wallet containing Hidell ID and a Texas Driver's license for "Lee Harvey Oswald" was either dropped at the scene or brought there by someone, John suspects Westbrook.
John says he hasn't necessarily solved the Tippet murder, but I think he has.
LEFT: American-born LEE Oswald in 1958 photo by Robert Oswald and appearing in Robert's book, Lee.
RIGHT: The jacket found under a car by the Texaco station after the Tippit slaying. Could these two
jackets be the same?
Jim
That could be the same jacket.Too bad someone stuck the evidence tag directly over where the identifying pocket should be....
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.â€
Buckminster Fuller
