Sean Murphy's research deserves more

[Albert Doyle]

I know from other research that it is best to do a technical approach. Sometimes reluctant witnesses can be accessed by friends.



The only Pauline E Sanders I can find is 80 and living in a Dallas suburb.



.

[Tom Scully]

Mrs. Robert E. (Pauline) Sanders Sr.- http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docI...PageId=702 - died 19 years ago.
http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?pag...=140987228

In the 1940 US Census, her age is described as 31.

If she was alive today, she would be 107.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/molina.htm
............
Mr. BALL. Did you go out on the street to see the motorcade?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes. I was standing on the front steps.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. MOLINA. Right next left of me was Mr. Williams and close to there was Mrs. Sanders.
Mr. BALL. Pauline Sanders.
Mr. MOLINA. Yes........

Otis N. Williams :

http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docI...PageId=105

....I was standing on the top step against the railing on the east side of the steps in front of the building.
I do not recall who was standing on either side of me but I do know that Mrs. Robert E. Sanders, also an emloyee
of the Texas School Book Depository, viewed the motorcade.....

What we must be observing here is an alternate universe heavily populated by the unobservant, lying or "in fear of their
very lives if the talked," bunch of witnesses I've ever read the consistent testimony of. A busload of them. How likely is
that, in this universe?

[Bob Prudhomme]

Mrs. Robert E. (Pauline) Sanders Sr.- http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docI...PageId=702 - died 19 years ago.
http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?pag...=140987228

In the 1940 US Census, her age is described as 31.

If she was alive today, she would be 107.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/molina.htm
............
Mr. BALL. Did you go out on the street to see the motorcade?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes. I was standing on the front steps.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. MOLINA. Right next left of me was Mr. Williams and close to there was Mrs. Sanders.
Mr. BALL. Pauline Sanders.
Mr. MOLINA. Yes........

Otis N. Williams :

http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docI...PageId=105

....I was standing on the top step against the railing on the east side of the steps in front of the building.
I do not recall who was standing on either side of me but I do know that Mrs. Robert E. Sanders, also an emloyee
of the Texas School Book Depository, viewed the motorcade.....

What we must be observing here is an alternate universe heavily populated by the unobservant, lying or "in fear of their
very lives if the talked," bunch of witnesses I've ever read the consistent testimony of. A busload of them. How likely is
that, in this universe?

None of them saw Prayer Man but, even stranger, the only one among them to see the white helmeted Patrolman Baker plough through the crowd of them, on his way into the TSBD, was Pauline Sanders; and her account of this was recorded in one of those questionable, unsigned and third person FBI reports from 24/11/63.

My theory, of late, has been that, instead of all of these witnesses lying about Baker, is it possible he lingered on the corner for a couple of minutes before entering the building, and all of these witnesses had already gone inside before he entered?

P.S.

Good work on finding the details of Ms. Sanders life and death.

[Albert Doyle]

It would be a shame to miss a good interview with Carolyn Arnold who could have all these things put to her and have her answer them directly.


Q: When you insisted on a 12:25 leaving time to Golz you understood it was 5 minutes before the motorcade?


Q: Were you listening to a live broadcast following the progress of the motorcade?


Q: With this in mind it means you saw Oswald when you left the 2nd floor at 12:25, correct? Etc etc...

[Bob Prudhomme]

It would be a shame to miss a good interview with Carolyn Arnold who could have all these things put to her and have her answer them directly.


Q: When you insisted on a 12:25 leaving time to Golz you understood it was 5 minutes before the motorcade?


Q: Were you listening to a live broadcast following the progress of the motorcade?


Q: With this in mind it means you saw Oswald when you left the 2nd floor at 12:25, correct? Etc etc...

It would be a shame to blow it, yes. For God's sake, use a little more tact and charm than I did with Gloria Calvery's brother.

[Albert Doyle]

A certain psychopath who ran away and never answered how Carolyn Arnold could not know either 4 months or 15 years after the assassination that the shooting occurred at 12:30, is now once again playing God and insisting that all original witnesses answer to his contrived reality instead of being allowed to speak for themselves. There's simply no way that Carolyn Arnold did not know the shooting took place at 12:30 when she spoke to Golz. So therefore all rational analyzers would have to conclude her insisting she left the building at 12:25 was with the knowledge it was 5 minutes before the shooting, as Pauline Sanders confirmed and the psychopath's trustworthy FBI altered to 11:25. Mrs Reid's claim would make 11:25 very unlikely. But since the psychopath isn't interested in the truth he ignores it. He also ignores that in March 1964 Sanders confirmed it was 12:20. So her statement at the time was 12:25. That's 2 people who said 12:25.

This psychopath is used to answering people for them simply because his deceptive method relies on switching from what those persons are saying to his imposed psychopath's version. Something that needs to be done that way because it is so averse and inaccurate to the truth those pre-empted witnesses are making obvious. This same psychopath never wavered a bit or answered for the evidence of Carolyn Arnold being on the Depository corner at 12:40-12:45. Now he's back, without skipping a beat, serving another load of disingenuous made-up bs that grinds against the facts. It never dawns on that backwards prevaricator that it is he who directly uses the WC methods when he quotes sightings of Oswald on the 1st floor by Carolyn Arnold; disavowed 12:15 times in altered FBI reports; inaccurate, made-up interpretations of Carolyn Arnold's doings and motives; and other contrary assumptions that are purely a product of his deceitful resistance more than anything else.

What this psychopathic meglomaniac doesn't realize is Carolyn Arnold doesn't have to answer any of his obviously made-up bs. She just has to relate what she remembers with the alleged conflicts spelled out to her for explanation. You can already see what the prevaricator who trolls that others are "integrity free" has been forced to back off of. Once you disallow the muddying static this person uses to confuse the issue it becomes clear that Carolyn Arnold had a source for the motorcade's progress and left the Depository with just the right amount of time to catch it. 5 minutes is about right. If I'm not mistaken Mrs Reid was the admitted source. So therefore any honest detective would realize Mrs Reid's admission that the secretaries were aware of the motorcade's progress trumps the psychopath's strawmen that he uses to avoid the necessary conclusion. This is a good example of how the psychopath thinks. You see he can admit your point but then try to defeat it with irrelevancies. If you filter his bs, all that counts is, yes, they had a source for the motorcade's progress, so therefore Carolyn Arnold's 12:25 is very possible. After all, it is what she told Golz no matter how much this psychopath denies it. Without skipping a beat our psychopath doesn't admit this refutes his previous feeble "12:25 was the original scheduled time so Carolyn Arnold mistook it for the time she went home" bs. This person is a true psychopath because only a true psychopath would show evidence that Carolyn Arnold knew from Mrs Reid that the motorcade was late yet then claim she had no source to know it wasn't coming at the original scheduled 12:25 time. This psychopath also refuses to admit how that would relate to Carolyn Arnold's certain knowledge that the shooting happened at 12:30 or the relevant timing confirmed by this. The answer isn't "no", it's "yes" - we were informed by Mrs Reid so therefore we had knowledge the motorcade was 5 minutes late when we left the building at 12:25 .


Another question to Carolyn Arnold should be "Did Oswald look like a person who was about the shoot the president minutes later?"



.

[Albert Doyle]

It's really time the JFK community shut down that self-referenced troll over at ROKC. He is obviously not to be taken seriously and doesn't honestly answer good facts and arguments. His responses are trollish and don't deserve the 1st level status he refers to himself by. There's simply no way Carolyn Arnold, that, by 1978, didn't know Kennedy was shot at 12:30. The psychopath is a pathetic person who constructs feeble excuses directly in response to being cornered by the facts. So he's not an honest evidence-follower, he's a deliberate liar and excuse-maker. The excuse he's trying to hide in, regarding Carolyn Arnold, is that she somehow wasn't aware Kennedy was shot at 12:30 when she spoke to Golz, even though it was probably the most significant thing that happened in her life by far.


What's painfully clear is the psychopath is deluding himself that this situation exists solely within the confines of his feeble specious constructions and they are the only terms dictating the event. For those who deal in more honest reality it is pretty obvious that Golz was speaking to Carolyn Arnold in terms of exposing FBI report fraud and asking her to clarify what she really said. The trolling psychopath has dropped his previous fraudulent claim that Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in the foyer and left the 2nd floor at 12:15. He couldn't get away with those lies so he quietly dropped them without admitting guilt and staying on the attack. Meanwhile the true context of Golz speaking to Carolyn Arnold is that she clarified that she left at 12:25. This is something confirmed by Pauline Sanders. It had to be dangerous because FBI altered Pauline Sanders' statement to 11:25 - just like they altered Carolyn Arnold's statement to 12:15. The psychopath asked how we knew Carolyn Arnold's time was accurate? When you show him Pauline Sanders' confirmation he ignores it. Just like he ignores that the photographs of Carolyn Arnold at the Depository front at 12:45 destroys his pathetic "went to go home at 12:25" bs (Also ignored and not admitted by the troll). Mrs Reid also puts Carolyn Arnold right in the 12:25 slot. So all said and done there's more than enough evidence to assume Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in the lunch-room near to 12:25. The noise the psychopath throws up in reaction to this is just the easiest available excuse the ROKC creep scurries to in reaction to the obvious facts he's avoiding.


I love the ROKC site. It has all the trimmings of a serious research site and even has 1st level graphics for a conference. But it is run by punk researchers led by a bully cult leader and its content is rot.

[Bart Kamp]

.

[Albert Doyle]

It is obvious that the reason Golz didn't emphasize the 12:30 shooting time is because it wasn't necessary and that both he and Carolyn Arnold understood it without saying it. It's not that Carolyn Arnold wasn't aware of it, it is that both of them were so aware of it that it didn't need to be said.


ROKC has backed into a position of trolling pestering. Parker's claim that Carolyn Arnold wasn't aware of the 12:30 shooting time is simply not credible (as you can tell be their trolling responses).


I have a feeling Parker knows it's a woman.


Apparently ROKC proxy trolling is now allowed.

You just gave me a new sig!!!

Nothing dumber than someone who adorns themselves with their own idiot label I always say.


Bart, are you not answering the substance of this because "We don't understand what you are doing and it will all be written in an upcoming article"?

[Bob Prudhomme]

It's really time the JFK community shut down that self-referenced troll over at ROKC. He is obviously not to be taken seriously and doesn't honestly answer good facts and arguments. His responses are trollish and don't deserve the 1st level status he refers to himself by. There's simply no way Carolyn Arnold, that, by 1978, didn't know Kennedy was shot at 12:30. The psychopath is a pathetic person who constructs feeble excuses directly in response to being cornered by the facts. So he's not an honest evidence-follower, he's a deliberate liar and excuse-maker. The excuse he's trying to hide in, regarding Carolyn Arnold, is that she somehow wasn't aware Kennedy was shot at 12:30 when she spoke to Golz, even though it was probably the most significant thing that happened in her life by far.


What's painfully clear is the psychopath is deluding himself that this situation exists solely within the confines of his feeble specious constructions and they are the only terms dictating the event. For those who deal in more honest reality it is pretty obvious that Golz was speaking to Carolyn Arnold in terms of exposing FBI report fraud and asking her to clarify what she really said. The trolling psychopath has dropped his previous fraudulent claim that Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in the foyer and left the 2nd floor at 12:15. He couldn't get away with those lies so he quietly dropped them without admitting guilt and staying on the attack. Meanwhile the true context of Golz speaking to Carolyn Arnold is that she clarified that she left at 12:25. This is something confirmed by Pauline Sanders. It had to be dangerous because FBI altered Pauline Sanders' statement to 11:25 - just like they altered Carolyn Arnold's statement to 12:15. The psychopath asked how we knew Carolyn Arnold's time was accurate? When you show him Pauline Sanders' confirmation he ignores it. Just like he ignores that the photographs of Carolyn Arnold at the Depository front at 12:45 destroys his pathetic "went to go home at 12:25" bs (Also ignored and not admitted by the troll). Mrs Reid also puts Carolyn Arnold right in the 12:25 slot. So all said and done there's more than enough evidence to assume Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in the lunch-room near to 12:25. The noise the psychopath throws up in reaction to this is just the easiest available excuse the ROKC creep scurries to in reaction to the obvious facts he's avoiding.


I love the ROKC site. It has all the trimmings of a serious research site and even has 1st level graphics for a conference. But it is run by punk researchers led by a bully cult leader and its content is rot.

While we have disagreed on other matters, I have to say you are pretty much correct on the basics of the Carolyn Arnold matter.

Greg Parker is basing his argument on assumptions. The first assumption is that the more menial employees (labourers) were somehow banned from the 2nd floor lunch room, while at the same time being allowed access to the soft drink machine there, and provided change for that machine by the secretaries on the 2nd floor. Were these labourers banned from the 2nd floor lunch room, or did they just naturally gravitate to the 1st floor Domino Room and the inevitable games of dominoes there? Would a quiet and introspective young man who enjoyed reading newspapers on his lunch break not gravitate to the quieter 2nd floor lunch room?

The next assumption Mr. Parker makes is that the FBI report of 26/11/63 (unsigned and unseen by Carolyn Arnold) is correct in stating she left the 2nd floor at 12:15 and that she also glimpsed Oswald on the 1st floor of the TSBD. This is contradicted, of course, by Ms. Arnold's second statement (signed) to the FBI AND her interview with Golz. In the latter interview, of 18/03/64, she leaves the TSBD at 12:25, and makes no mention of seeing Oswald on the 1st floor just before 12:15. The damning thing about the first report is that it places Oswald on the 1st floor just before 12:15, with ample time to get back to the 6th floor before JFK passes.

The next assumption Mr. Parker makes is that no one in the TSBD had any inkling or notion that JFK's motorcade was running just over half an hour late. He was originally scheduled to arrive at the Trade Mart for a luncheon set to begin at twelve noon. If we work it out, this would have had him passing the TSBD a few minutes BEFORE noon, if he was making any effort to arrive on time. We only have to look at other witness statements and testimonies to know there was no real effort made to be out on the street by the majority of the TSBD employees, with many of them going out well after the scheduled passing time. How would they have known JFK was going to be late?

The next assumption Mr. Parker makes is that Ms. Arnold's departure time in her 18/03/64 statement of 12:25 is actually the time she left for home, with the original time of 12:00 to 12:15 being correct for leaving the building. This is a very weal argument as, not only does she not explain this is the time she left for home, she is plainly identified in several photos of the front entrance area of the TSBD taken ten to fifteen minutes after the assassination.