Sean Murphy's research deserves more

[Bart Kamp]

.

[Albert Doyle]

If you follow where logic and the evidence is going the employees were tracking the progress of the motorcade and timing their emergence from the Depository with its arrival.


It is silly to not realize in the modern electronic age someone was listening to the broadcast, whether that was via a cop or car radio just outside the building and shouted up to the windows or internally in the Depository. I doubt the Texas School Book Depository was without a radio. The reason Greg Parker is an insufferable jackass is because he tries to bury himself in his excuses. He tries to convince himself and his readers that Mrs Reid's phone call is the only source for this and looks no further. What is painfully apparent is how easy it is to figure out the possibilities outside his excuses.


For those not stuck in neo-con denial it is painfully obvious that Carolyn Arnold left the Depository exactly at a time that fits perfectly with knowledge of the motorcade's progress. Since she herself said 12:25, and it was corroborated by Pauline Sanders, we can therefore assume it is very likely Carolyn Arnold saw 'Oswald' in the lunch-room at around 12:25. If Officer Baker's story was accurate that means 'Oswald' was sitting comfortably eating his lunch on the 2nd floor just before and after the shooting.

[Gordon Gray]

It is my understanding that all the people pictured on the steps of the TSBD that day were employees with the possible exception of PM/W. If this is correct and PM/W is a stranger they would not have come from inside the building, they would have made their way through the crowd of people there, to reach that position. It seems odd that none of those on the steps remember this. On the other hand if PM/W is another employee who slipped out moments before the shots, who might that have been? Oswald or what woman? If PM/W slipped out moments before the shot, everyone would have been focused on the motorcade and very likely would not have noticed him/her. After the shots they were understandably concentrating their attention in the direction of further down Elm street. As to Shelly and Lovelady, their story of 3-4 minutes helps to discredit Vicky Adams timing. Probably made up to do so. I have been partial to a scenario that has PM/W as Oswald, Baker running up the steps when he said he did, encountering Oswald, asking directions with Truly coming up behind to take him to the elevators. I see no definitive proof in the blow up that PM is either a man or a woman. I think Baker's story of the lunch room encounter was made up later to fit the facts as the WC needed them to be, and perhaps to cover for the fact that he may have let the real gunman escape.

[Albert Doyle]

I'm certain Prayer Man is a woman from the details in the Darnell blow-up.



If Prayer Man was Oswald we know he didn't go out to the street. We know he had to have gone back in the front door. The Darnell shot shows Prayer Man well after the shots when people were herding towards the entrance. These people would be fired with adrenaline and would not be likely to miss Oswald working his way back into the building through the crowded bottleneck of the front door.

[Bob Prudhomme]

This is interesting. Greg Parker will not post here, but responds to our posts on this thread on his own forum on his "Carolyn Arnold" thread. Oh well. however you want to do things, Greg.

I will be quoting several passages from Greg's latest post.

"No, Bob, This isn't a contradiction - no matter how much you all want it to be. Her answer in that second interview was to the question "what time did you leave work for the day?" Not "what time did you break for lunch?"

"I beg to differ, Bob. That is not an assumption in regard to the second FBI report. Her "12:25" was in response to the very specific question: What time did you leave to go home?" The "12:25" given was because of her belief that the assassination happened at that time. How can she be answering "I went home at 12:25" if she knew the assassination happened at 12:30?"

You'll have to decide here, Greg, if the "very specific question" asked by the FBI was "what time did you leave work for the day?" or "what time did you leave to go home?". There is a world of difference between the two questions. If she "left work" at 12:25 to go watch the parade, she could be in the vicinity of the TSBD for the rest of the day, and not be considered at work. I know you don't want to see it this way but, leaving work and leaving the building could very well equate to the same thing in her mind.

"She has not been POSITIVELY identified at all in several photos. There is an ASSUMPTION she has been identied in several photos. There is as ASSUMPTION as to when those photos where taken. There is as an ASSUMPTION it matters. It doesn't. She "finished" work for the day as soon as she realized she could not get back inside. That happened very shortly after the assassination - which she remembered as being 12:25 for her 2nd FBI interview. "

Sorry, Greg but would you mind providing the name of another TSBD employee who was quite far along in her pregnancy, as Carolyn Arnold was? Not only that, the pregnant woman ID'ed as Carolyn Arnold in photos taken well after the assassination is clearly the same Carolyn Arnold ID'ed by ED Forum members in photos taken several years after the assassination. Any fool can see that.

"Virginia Rackley said she went down at 12:15. Did the FBI fudge her report too, or did they all go down at that time because ( a ) they could see the crowd was building and wanted to get a good spot and ( b ) because Geneva Hine had volunteered to stay and answer the phone?"

Did Carolyn Arnold leave with the other women at 12:15, or did she tarry because her pregnancy made her thirsty? From what I recall of my wife's pregnancies, she likely stopped to relieve her bladder as well. I recall reading that she was afraid this delay was going to cause her to be late for the arrival of the motorcade, and may very well have caused her to leave the building at 12:25.

"Firstly, at least one person testified that she knew it was running late: Mrs Reid. But she only knew because her husband phoned and told her. Mrs Reid is also under a cloud of suspicion that needs a separate thread. Secondly, the mororcade was not - repeat - not running a half hour late. You may have fallen victim, as I originally did, to Joseph's erroneous time-line. It was due at the Trade Mart at 12:30 pm. It was therefore due past the TSBD at 12:25."

Despite what was written in the DMN, the motorcade would have arrived at the Trade Mart shortly after 12:00, if JFK had not strayed from the schedule and gone out to meet the crowd at Love Field, completely throwing out your "five minutes late" theory.

[Albert Doyle]

You're making a mistake Bob and giving Parker the opportunity to rehash his already disproven bullshit.



Parker said this all came down to whether Carolyn Arnold thought 12:25 was the time of the motorcade that day. But that's stupid. It's also wrong, and a typical example of Parker's credulous logic. What it comes down to is whether Carolyn Arnold knew that 12:25 was 5 minutes before the shooting when she talked to FBI in March 1964 and Golz in 1978. The answer is yes to both questions, so it makes the rest of the disingenuous crap Parker writes moot.



It's pretty obvious to me that Parker keeps repeating his already disproven bullshit because he refuses to admit he's been beaten.



.

[Bob Prudhomme]

You're making a mistake Bob and giving Parker the opportunity to rehash his already disproven bullshit.



Parker said this all came down to whether Carolyn Arnold thought 12:25 was the time of the motorcade that day. But that's stupid. It's also wrong, and a typical example of Parker's credulous logic. What it comes down to is whether Carolyn Arnold knew that 12:25 was 5 minutes before the shooting when she talked to FBI in March 1964 and Golz in 1978. The answer is yes to both questions, so it makes the rest of the disingenuous crap Parker writes moot.


It's pretty obvious to me that Parker keeps repeating his already disproven bullshit because he refuses to admit he's been beaten.

The one argument he makes that pulls the foundation out from his entire belief is the distinction he makes between the time Carolyn Arnold left the building (12:00 to 12:15) and the time she left work to go home (12:25, according to Mr. Parker).

One of two things had to occur in Carolyn Arnold's mind to make everything work according to Greg Parker.

1. Between her departure time from the TSBD and five minutes before the motorcade arrived, Carolyn Arnold made a conscious decision not to return to work that afternoon. Why? God and Greg Parker alone know.

2. Giving Greg Parker the benefit of the doubt, we will say, for the sake of argument, that she really did believe the time of the assassination to be 12:25. Given this, she would have had to decide, right at the moment of the assassination, there would be no more work that day. Isn't this pushing things a bit? It took some time before anyone even knew what was going on, and much longer until the TSBD employees were sent home. Plus, she seems to have hung around for some time following the assassination. See below.





While I can see a definite resemblance between the older and younger Carolyn Arnolds, I feel the woman ID'ed as Victoria Adams looks a bit old to be the 23 year old Victoria Adams, pictured at an unknown date below.




If the woman to the left of Carolyn Arnold is indeed Jeraldein Reid, the WC supporters are in trouble, as she was supposed to be on the 2nd floor telling Oswald about the assassination, following his encounter with Baker. Did she go back outside?

[Albert Doyle]

Parker's a liar because he's already been told that Golz made it very clear that Carolyn Arnold said 12:25 was the time she left the building. Yet Parker ignores this and tries to regress to his already disproven attempt to say Carolyn Arnold meant it was the time she left work and went home. Since it only takes 1 minute to go from the lunch-room to the front door that means she saw Oswald at around 12:24.

It's clear that 12:25 was established as being the time she left the building because both Golz and Carolyn Arnold knew the assassination happened at 12:30. So that's why she only had to clarify that's when she left the building and why Golz didn't further inquire.

[Bob Prudhomme]

Oops! It's been pointed out that Greg Parker is no longer able to post on this forum. I knew that but, with all of the responses from Albert, I assumed Greg had been reinstated and was posting here again. My bad!

[Magda Hassan]

Bart sent me a request to close his membership this morning so I have retired him. In case any one is wondering where he is gone.