Sean Murphy's research deserves more

[Albert Doyle]

Albert,

PM can not have his hand sticking out into the sunlight, because that would mean having his hand extend past BNL, who himself is half in shadow. Also you can not see PM in Altgens 6, so he clearly is behind BNL. What does capture the sunlight could either be a glass object or a bracelet?

Check out the photo. You can see Prayer Man is slightly forward of Lovelady in the portal. The sunlit hand is the indicator of his location.

[Bob Prudhomme]

Ahead of Lovelady?? Are you quite serious???? Don't you find it a bit odd that Lovelady is visible in the Altgens photo, yet PM is not?

From the WC testimony of Buell Wesley Frazier:

"Mr. BALL - When you stood out on the front looking at the parade, where was Shelley standing and where was Lovelady standing with reference to you?

Mr. FRAZIER - Well, see, I was standing, like I say, one step down from the top, and Mr. Shelley was standing, you know, back from the top step and over toward the side of the wall there. See, he was standing right over there, and then Billy was a couple of steps down from me over toward more the wall also."

[Albert Doyle]

Look at the photo Bob. He's ahead of Lovelady in the portal. That's why the sun is illuminating his hand.


Lovelady was moving about the portal in order to track Kennedy as he went down Elm St. That's why he was at the center rail craning his neck in Altgens 6. You can't take one statement of his position and make it work for his entire movement in the portal. The sunlight on Prayer Man's hand is telling you where he is. We both know Altgens 6 was taken from a seriously oblique angle.

[Bob Prudhomme]

Look at the photo Bob. He's ahead of Lovelady in the portal. That's why the sun is illuminating his hand.


Lovelady was moving about the portal in order to track Kennedy as he went down Elm St. That's why he was at the center rail craning his neck in Altgens 6. You can't take one statement of his position and make it work for his entire movement in the portal. The sunlight on Prayer Man's hand is telling you where he is. We both know Altgens 6 was taken from a seriously oblique angle.

Perhaps you could provide us with some evidence (photo? statement? testimony?) that Lovelady was "moving about the portal in order to track Kennedy as he went down Elm St."? This is the first time I have heard this theory and I see absolutely nothing to support it. Do you think Lovelady would actually go further into the portal in order to get a better look at JFK? Somewhat counter productive, wouldn't you say?

P.S. No matter how hard I look at the photo of PM, he continues to remain entirely in shadow, unlike Lovelady, who clearly has sunlight falling on him.

[Albert Doyle]

Perhaps you could provide us with some evidence (photo? statement? testimony?) that Lovelady was "moving about the portal in order to track Kennedy as he went down Elm St."? This is the first time I have heard this theory and I see absolutely nothing to support it. Do you think Lovelady would actually go further into the portal in order to get a better look at JFK? Somewhat counter productive, wouldn't you say?

P.S. No matter how hard I look at the photo of PM, he continues to remain entirely in shadow, unlike Lovelady, who clearly has sunlight falling on him.

You can just interpolate the Hughes Film shot shown on the Education Forum, the Prayer Man photo with the illuminated hand, Altgens 6, and the Martin Film. Lovelady moves from a position against the west portal wall in Hughes over to the railing in Altgens 6 (to track Kennedy down Elm St) and then to the east steps in Martin. This is a common sense issue since Altgens 6 clearly shows Kennedy well down Elm St where Lovelady had to move east from his Hughes position in the portal in order to maintain visual contact with the limousine. Lovelady's body posture shows him craning and leaning in order to keep tracking the limo. His hand is most likely holding the railing because the amount of leaning he was doing would need to be supported. Lovelady then ends up over on the east steps in the Martin Film. The evidence has already been provided in the Education Forum thread you reference.

The configuration of the portal requires Lovelady to go further back in order to get around the railing on the top of the steps in order to move east and track Kennedy. Lovelady is in that process when he appears slightly further back from Prayer Man in the illuminated hand photograph. If you look sharp you can see Prayer Man's right shoulder lines up with the faux concrete column in the portal. Draw a line out from that and Lovelady is slightly further back in his effort to get around the center rail. But the sun on Prayer Man's hand is an indicator in itself. After all, what else could be lighting up Prayer Man's hand?

[Lauren Johnson]

You say this:

After all, what else could be lighting up Prayer Man's hand?

I have looked at the photo and have no idea what you are talking about. None. Somehow you are going to have to cut out the portion you are talking about and upload it. Bob has no idea. I don't either.

[Lauren Johnson]

Albert, r u talking about the white blob appearing in the area above Lovelady's left shoulder?

[Albert Doyle]

Look at Prayer Man inside the red circle in Sean Murphy's post #213. There was actually a much better version in the same thread but I couldn't find it again. This is a different shot than the Darnell clips:




http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....54&page=15




.

[Lauren Johnson]

Look at the photo Bob. He's ahead of Lovelady in the portal. That's why the sun is illuminating his hand.

OK, I understand what you are getting at and it makes no sense. PM may be holding a bright object or his hand is in the sun or both, however only his hand is in the sun if at all. Lovelady's entire body is in the sun. Ergo, PM is mostly in the shade.

EDIT: There is an African-American man seen in Altgens 6 in profile at the level of Lovelady's sternum. With Lovelady gone in the photo you referenced, that same man appears to be still visible, but having taken Lovelady's position. He is in the sun. PM is not.

[Albert Doyle]

Look at the photo Bob. He's ahead of Lovelady in the portal. That's why the sun is illuminating his hand.

OK, I understand what you are getting at and it makes no sense. PM may be holding a bright object or his hand is in the sun or both, however only his hand is in the sun if at all. Lovelady's entire body is in the sun. Ergo, PM is mostly in the shade.

Lauren, you don't seem to understand what is being argued here. You admitted his hand was in the sun. That is also what I am saying. I assure you, if you analyze the photo, Prayer Man will be in a position slightly forward of Lovelady, as his hand being in the sun evidences. I was never saying Prayer Man wasn't in the shade. I don't know where you got that from.

If you read my argument more closely you will see I was specifically saying Prayer Man is standing slightly more forward to the south than Lovelady in the illuminated hand shot. This is evidenced by the fact he has his hand brightened by the sun. There's another example of this same photo in the Education Forum that I can't find. It makes it even clearer. The reason Lovelady is in more sun than Prayer Man is because of the sun angle in the portal. You can see this proven by the vertical shade line down Lovelady's torso. The rest of what I wrote then follows.