Sean Murphy's research deserves more

[David Josephs]

" Claims 2nd floor Coke when officer came in "


Sounds like it to me. The only wiggle room would be Oswald rushing back from the front entrance portal ahead of Baker and Truly. But I would have to say it sounds to me like Oswald is placing himself in the lunch-room when Baker confronts him.

According to Agent Bookout, the lunchroom encounter happens BEFORE Oswald goes down to the first floor to have lunch.
According to Bookout he then goes out front and is with Shelley... "Out front with Shelley"

According to Baker - the man he sees is between the 3rd and 4th floor coming down the stairs... no room, no door with a window, no draw pistol... this statement is recorded on a signed affidavit on Nov 22nd.

Notes of the interrogation are offered days to weeks to months even YEARS after the fact.

1st day affidavit versus posthumous incriminatory notes...

If Oswald was inthe lunchroom, who is it that Baker and Truly run into coming down the stairs?

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Let's see, were'nt there some other first day affidavits about a Mauser, signed the next day AFTER the rifle was clearly identified?

One has to wonder why so much of what was FIRST SAID had to be replaced by information that was specifically incriminatory of Oswald, posthumously.

=================================
January 22, 1964 Exec Session
Mr. Rankin:
Then theres a great range of material in regards to the wound and theautopsy and this point of exit or entrance of the bullet in the front of theneck, and that all has to be developed much more than we have at the presenttime.

We have an explanation there in the autopsy that probably a fragmentcame out the front of the neck, but with the elevation the shot must have comefrom, and the angle, it seems quite apparent, since we have the picture ofwhere the bullet entered in the back, that the bullet entered below theshoulder blade to the right of the backbone, which is below the place where thepicture shows the bullet came out in the neckband of the shirt in front, andthe bullet, according to the autopsy didn't strike any bone at all, thatparticular bullet, and go through.

So that how it could turn, and --

Rep. Boggs. I thought I read that bullet just went in a finger's length.

Mr. Rankin. That is what they first said

[Albert Doyle]

According to Agent Bookout, the lunchroom encounter happens BEFORE Oswald goes down to the first floor to have lunch.
According to Bookout he then goes out front and is with Shelley... "Out front with Shelley"

According to Baker - the man he sees is between the 3rd and 4th floor coming down the stairs... no room, no door with a window, no draw pistol... this statement is recorded on a signed affidavit on Nov 22nd.

Notes of the interrogation are offered days to weeks to months even YEARS after the fact.

1st day affidavit versus posthumous incriminatory notes...

If Oswald was inthe lunchroom, who is it that Baker and Truly run into coming down the stairs?

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Let's see, were'nt there some other first day affidavits about a Mauser, signed the next day AFTER the rifle was clearly identified?

One has to wonder why so much of what was FIRST SAID had to be replaced by information that was specifically incriminatory of Oswald, posthumously.

David,

First off your discovery on the tramps is brilliant. It is the best thing I have seen in a long time. Holy shit I can't believe there's evidence of the bums being incarcerated for days and hanging out with Oswald in jail. This is serious evidence of chicanery with the railroad tramps. I would check for the dupes being paraded through the Plaza in front of the cameras while the other arrestees took a more secluded route. Wow.

As for Baker I would suggest he omitted the lunch-room encounter because he had witnessed a second Oswald by the 4th floor landing. He didn't know which spook to mention. I think DPD knew Oswald was a spook and were playing it cool until instructed what to do. DPD knew Ruby wasn't a reporter but they let him pretend to be one. Ruby knew Oswald was a spook as did the Carousel regulars. If the DPD hung out for pay-offs at the Carousel it makes sense they knew "Ozzie" was a spook.

The Coke and lunch-room were exculpatory since they show signs Oswald was settled in there. Baker could have been avoiding giving information that conflicted with Oswald being on the 6th floor. It doesn't work in the conspiracy's favor to place Oswald in the lunch-room where Victoria Adams could later exonerate him. They could have given in to the lunch-room witnessing once they realized too many people witnessed it like Fritz, Truly, and Baker (and maybe Carolyn Arnold).

[Bob Prudhomme]

Regarding Fritz's notes, is everyone aware they were not written at the time of the interrogation but, rather, written a week later, and made to appear to be the hurriedly jotted down notes he would take at an interrogation?

[David Josephs]

According to Agent Bookout, the lunchroom encounter happens BEFORE Oswald goes down to the first floor to have lunch.
According to Bookout he then goes out front and is with Shelley... "Out front with Shelley"

According to Baker - the man he sees is between the 3rd and 4th floor coming down the stairs... no room, no door with a window, no draw pistol... this statement is recorded on a signed affidavit on Nov 22nd.

Notes of the interrogation are offered days to weeks to months even YEARS after the fact.

1st day affidavit versus posthumous incriminatory notes...

If Oswald was inthe lunchroom, who is it that Baker and Truly run into coming down the stairs?

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Let's see, were'nt there some other first day affidavits about a Mauser, signed the next day AFTER the rifle was clearly identified?

One has to wonder why so much of what was FIRST SAID had to be replaced by information that was specifically incriminatory of Oswald, posthumously.

David,

First off your discovery on the tramps is brilliant. It is the best thing I have seen in a long time. Holy shit I can't believe there's evidence of the bums being incarcerated for days and hanging out with Oswald in jail. This is serious evidence of chicanery with the railroad tramps. I would check for the dupes being paraded through the Plaza in front of the cameras while the other arrestees took a more secluded route. Wow.

As for Baker I would suggest he omitted the lunch-room encounter because he had witnessed a second Oswald by the 4th floor landing. He didn't know which spook to mention. I think DPD knew Oswald was a spook and were playing it cool until instructed what to do. DPD knew Ruby wasn't a reporter but they let him pretend to be one. Ruby knew Oswald was a spook as did the Carousel regulars. If the DPD hung out for pay-offs at the Carousel it makes sense they knew "Ozzie" was a spook.

The Coke and lunch-room were exculpatory since they show signs Oswald was settled in there. Baker could have been avoiding giving information that conflicted with Oswald being on the 6th floor. It doesn't work in the conspiracy's favor to place Oswald in the lunch-room where Victoria Adams could later exonerate him. They could have given in to the lunch-room witnessing once they realized too many people witnessed it like Fritz, Truly, and Baker (and maybe Carolyn Arnold).

Thanks Bob...

Sure would like to know who Baker really saw...

What gets me is his first story puts the man closer to the sniper's nest... if they said that was Oswald it would be MORE incriminating..

Had to be someone no one wanted to know about to move Ozzie down 2 flights and already buying a coke.

[Albert Doyle]

Is it possible Fritz's notes were written during the Oswald interrogation but Fritz had to say they were written later in order not to expose evidence suppression orders?

[Tracy Riddle]

I'll make it easier for you. Find a witness who even saw him go up the steps. How do you know he didn't go around the corner and up Houston St.?

Don't you see that if that's the investigatory standard you're going to use that it then begs the question where is the witness who said they saw Oswald in the Depository entrance? Some people are the first to complain about proving negatives and then promote a theory based on nothing but that.

I just refuse to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald would be standing right wide out in the open in the Depository entrance during the assassination and nobody would mention it.

This case had total corruption. But the total corruption card can only be used within reasonable limits.

I'm skeptical about Oswald being PM mostly because it shows the plotters having a total lack of control over the patsy. At the very least, Oswald's handler would have told him a story about needing to hang around inside the building at 12:20-30, maybe in the first floor warehouse where there was a phone. Maybe he was told to wait for a call at 12:25 (the motorcade was running late), and by 12:30, he got tired of waiting and went upstairs to the second floor lunchroom. Or something like that. In any case, you can't have Oswald just wandering around outside where he could be photographed by a dozen people.

[Bob Prudhomme]

Is it possible Fritz's notes were written during the Oswald interrogation but Fritz had to say they were written later in order not to expose evidence suppression orders?

Not likely. In fact, I once again am having difficulty even comprehending what you are talking about.

I would think that notes taken during the interrogation would make it seem there were no "evidence suppression orders", whatever they are.

[Bob Prudhomme]

I'll make it easier for you. Find a witness who even saw him go up the steps. How do you know he didn't go around the corner and up Houston St.?

Don't you see that if that's the investigatory standard you're going to use that it then begs the question where is the witness who said they saw Oswald in the Depository entrance? Some people are the first to complain about proving negatives and then promote a theory based on nothing but that.

I just refuse to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald would be standing right wide out in the open in the Depository entrance during the assassination and nobody would mention it.

This case had total corruption. But the total corruption card can only be used within reasonable limits.

I'm skeptical about Oswald being PM mostly because it shows the plotters having a total lack of control over the patsy. At the very least, Oswald's handler would have told him a story about needing to hang around inside the building at 12:20-30, maybe in the first floor warehouse where there was a phone. Maybe he was told to wait for a call at 12:25 (the motorcade was running late), and by 12:30, he got tired of waiting and went upstairs to the second floor lunchroom. Or something like that. In any case, you can't have Oswald just wandering around outside where he could be photographed by a dozen people.

Or maybe you are assuming the plotters of the assassination had intended for Oswald to be the main patsy. If the original plan had been to foist the blame on Cuba and the USSR, and the "Oswald alone" cover up was hastily thrown together in the immediate aftermath, Oswald might have been a very small part of the original plot, and his actions might never have been noticed if the original plan had stayed together.

[Albert Doyle]

Is it possible Fritz's notes were written during the Oswald interrogation but Fritz had to say they were written later in order not to expose evidence suppression orders?

Not likely. In fact, I once again am having difficulty even comprehending what you are talking about.

I would think that notes taken during the interrogation would make it seem there were no "evidence suppression orders", whatever they are.

Bob, those are the same notes that disappeared with DPD saying they never took them. Do you believe DPD never took any notes on the most important suspect in their history? You are assuring us this did not constitute evidence suppression?


I'm still waiting for an answer to whether or not someone instructed Baker to include the window in the lunch-room door and who exactly that was if Baker never entered? Or told him to fabricate a man on the 4th floor landing? Since you are saying Baker fabricated this report how could that not be evidence of falsification? And since you yourself are saying Baker falsified evidence then why couldn't Fritz have misrepresented the notes?

[David Josephs]

Is it possible Fritz's notes were written during the Oswald interrogation but Fritz had to say they were written later in order not to expose evidence suppression orders?

Not likely. In fact, I once again am having difficulty even comprehending what you are talking about.

I would think that notes taken during the interrogation would make it seem there were no "evidence suppression orders", whatever they are.

Bob, those are the same notes that disappeared with DPD saying they never took them. Do you believe DPD never took any notes on the most important suspect in their history? You are assuring us this did not constitute evidence suppression?


I'm still waiting for an answer to whether or not someone instructed Baker to include the window in the lunch-room door and who exactly that was if Baker never entered? Or told him to fabricate a man on the 4th floor landing? Since you are saying Baker fabricated this report how could that not be evidence of falsification? And since you yourself are saying Baker falsified evidence then why couldn't Fritz have misrepresented the notes?

The man on the stairs coming down as Baker put in his affidavit is the only legitimate recollection of the encounter... this is BEFORE anyone gets to him or Truly.
Fritz's notes are a mystery yet CE1988 is Agent Bookout's report of the interrogfation and Appendix 11 of the WCR are all the interrogation reports. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/j..._0311b.htm


It is amazing that one of the largest Homicide departments inthe country did not have a tape recorder or stenographer during these interrogations...

Also remember that he was questioned for a total of 12 hours... those note cannot be the entire thing. Also... even though he repeatedly asked for legal representation - none was ever given.

As to the title of the thread... some people over at Ed Forum are now considering that PM is holding a camera and had taken a picture as the cars pass by...

I enhanced the image as best I could and slowed down the gif... that sure does look like our man Ozzie.... except I see what appears to be a watch or bracelet on his right wrist... agree?