Quote:Either way, there are a lot of things wrong with the official record of what occurred on the steps of the TSBD, and Baker, Shelley and Lovelady are only the tip of the iceberg.
Amen to that Bob....
It may also mean that the films' and photos' relationship to the timeline is dubious at best.
If Healy is correct.. or even partially... there's a very good reason why none of the original films are available and the negatives to some of the most revealing images are gone.
What did they say about Hawkeye - be it film or photo, there was nothing they couldn't do...
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
Tracy Riddle Wrote:I'm skeptical about Oswald being PM mostly because it shows the plotters having a total lack of control over the patsy. At the very least, Oswald's handler would have told him a story about needing to hang around inside the building at 12:20-30, maybe in the first floor warehouse where there was a phone. Maybe he was told to wait for a call at 12:25 (the motorcade was running late), and by 12:30, he got tired of waiting and went upstairs to the second floor lunchroom. Or something like that. In any case, you can't have Oswald just wandering around outside where he could be photographed by a dozen people.
Or maybe you are assuming the plotters of the assassination had intended for Oswald to be the main patsy. If the original plan had been to foist the blame on Cuba and the USSR, and the "Oswald alone" cover up was hastily thrown together in the immediate aftermath, Oswald might have been a very small part of the original plot, and his actions might never have been noticed if the original plan had stayed together.
Oswald was a pretty important part of it. They went to a lot of trouble to set up Oswald as the gunman (the Mexico City incident, the fake crime scene in his workplace, the backyard photos, etc.)
Really? And how do you know there was not a large group of players present in Dealey Plaza that day that had been set up as well and, should circumstances have required it, any one of them or a whole group of them could have been thrown into the limelight as the villain(s)?
I suppose that's possible, but it's highly speculative. The only other worker who might have been conceivably linked to left-wing politics was Joe Molina. The others just don't have the background (former defector to USSR, FPCC involvement, etc.)
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Or maybe you are assuming the plotters of the assassination had intended for Oswald to be the main patsy. If the original plan had been to foist the blame on Cuba and the USSR, and the "Oswald alone" cover up was hastily thrown together in the immediate aftermath, Oswald might have been a very small part of the original plot, and his actions might never have been noticed if the original plan had stayed together.
Oswald was a pretty important part of it. They went to a lot of trouble to set up Oswald as the gunman (the Mexico City incident, the fake crime scene in his workplace, the backyard photos, etc.)
Really? And how do you know there was not a large group of players present in Dealey Plaza that day that had been set up as well and, should circumstances have required it, any one of them or a whole group of them could have been thrown into the limelight as the villain(s)?
I suppose that's possible, but it's highly speculative. The only other worker who might have been conceivably linked to left-wing politics was Joe Molina. The others just don't have the background (former defector to USSR, FPCC involvement, etc.)
Why are you limiting the conspiracy to the TSBD?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
Why would Carolyn Arnold be so observant that she could catch a glimpse of Oswald by the front door but then entirely miss Lee Harvey Oswald standing right out in broad daylight on the front steps during the assassination?
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Oswald was a pretty important part of it. They went to a lot of trouble to set up Oswald as the gunman (the Mexico City incident, the fake crime scene in his workplace, the backyard photos, etc.)
Really? And how do you know there was not a large group of players present in Dealey Plaza that day that had been set up as well and, should circumstances have required it, any one of them or a whole group of them could have been thrown into the limelight as the villain(s)?
I suppose that's possible, but it's highly speculative. The only other worker who might have been conceivably linked to left-wing politics was Joe Molina. The others just don't have the background (former defector to USSR, FPCC involvement, etc.)
Why are you limiting the conspiracy to the TSBD?
I suppose they could have set up someone in the DalTex Building, but there's no evidence of that. Sorry to sound like a LNer using that phrase.
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Really? And how do you know there was not a large group of players present in Dealey Plaza that day that had been set up as well and, should circumstances have required it, any one of them or a whole group of them could have been thrown into the limelight as the villain(s)?
I suppose that's possible, but it's highly speculative. The only other worker who might have been conceivably linked to left-wing politics was Joe Molina. The others just don't have the background (former defector to USSR, FPCC involvement, etc.)
Why are you limiting the conspiracy to the TSBD?
I suppose they could have set up someone in the DalTex Building, but there's no evidence of that. Sorry to sound like a LNer using that phrase.
And, the reason there is no evidence is? They never looked for evidence in the Dal-Tex Building, or the County Records Building, or anywhere else for that matter.
This is like the finding of "the" assassination weapon on the 6th floor. Strange how the case was solved as soon as one rifle was found, hmm? I guess it just never occurred to anyone there could have been more than one shooter. This, too, is extremely odd, considering the country had just gone through the Cuban Missile Crisis, and it was also the height of the Cold War.
Lack of evidence, simply because evidence was either never uncovered or ignored, does not equate to no evidence.
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
If I may offer a thought: The mechanics had no expectation that anything they produced in terms of evidence would face the level of scrutiny we have today. The FOIA didn't exist until 1966. Everything was going to be classified. They believed they could and would (and did) get away with anything. Arguments over notes by the DPD miss the point entirely. You have no idea what actually happened. You only know what was published.
Like David Josephs I give more credence to affidavits signed the day of the assassination. The number of changes in latter testimony is mind boggling.
The incredulity of witness testimony - as in how did they miss THAT, or why did they say they were here or there which conflicts with what the images show or other testimony that wasn't changed can be broken into two categories:
1 - The witness themselves are not being truthful
or
2 - the evidence of what they said was changed.
Case in point - Williams being told in his questioning that he told the FBI he was on the 6th floor for only 3 minutes...
Mr. BALL. Well, now, when you talked to the FBI on the 23d day of November, you said that you went up to the sixth floor about 12 noon with your lunch, and you stayed only about 3 minutes, and seeing no one you came down to the fifth floor, using the stairs at the west end of the building. Now, do you think you stayed longer than 3 minutes up there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I am sure I stayed longer than 3 minutes.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember telling the FBI you only stayed 3 minutes up there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Ido not remember telling them I only stayed 3 minutes.
Or the little known change Dulles made to Cadigan's testimony prior to publishing to remove admission that ALL items of evidence were sent to DC on 11/23, not just the list Drain signed:
(this is only what was found - can you imagine what was not caught and made its way into the final report?)
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Really? And how do you know there was not a large group of players present in Dealey Plaza that day that had been set up as well and, should circumstances have required it, any one of them or a whole group of them could have been thrown into the limelight as the villain(s)?
Eugene Brading was there (Dal-Tex)...There was an unknown guy present on the grassy knoll with (probably) fake SS credentials...
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
