CD87 p92 - SS tells us the rifle Kleins shipped to Hidell was a 91(T)roop (S)pecial carbine

[David Josephs]

the same rifles ordered by Kleins on 1/15/62.... yet we know the rifle found was a M91/38 Fucile Corto...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5971[/ATTACH]
Feldsott tells the FBI on 11/23 that Crescent shipped Kleins C2766 on June 18, 1962 and provides 10 packing slips to back it up.

This FBI report from the Grealy's (and the one below from RUPP) let's us know the process which SHOULD have taken place after the 1/15/62 order of 400 TS rifles... yet there is no documentation for the processing of this order other than FELDSOTT telling us that C2766 was sent on June 18, 1962... He would need documentation to recall this date and the exact shipment, documentation sent to RUPP to prepare the rifles, from RUPP to Adams to remove the rifles and from Crescent to Kleins for the June 18th shipment. All this documentation is given to the FBI (FELDSOTT affidavit).

This report attempt to connect the Feb 1963 shipment with the information provided by FELDSOTT which has to do with the June 18, 1962 shipment - fromwhich, again, there is not a shred of documentation other than the 1/15/62 order to Crescent from Kleins for 400 TS rifles... It is my conclusion from this analysis that most if not all of the Klein's documentation, all of which in the record are FBI provided copies with NO ORIGINALS to compare them available.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5969[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5972[/ATTACH]

There are no dates on the 10 packing slips, nor is there any documentation stating Carton #3376 was ever removed from storage. This report also falsely claims that FOLSOM is seperate and distinct from CRESCENT when they surely knew that Feldsott and his brother were the owners of FOLSOM and CRESCENT.

Thanks to John Armstrong's work, we have the s[B]hipping location of origin f[/B]or the 100 rifles the FBI claims are represented by the 10 packing slips and is for the 2/23/63 shipment.

RUPP's shop is in PERKASIE, PA... the order from Rupp represented Crescent to Kleins originates from POTTSVILLE, PA which is 65 miles North West of Rupp's shop.
There is other documentation that shows "OTTSVILLE" with a "P" handwritten in... OTTSVILLE is still over 11 miles from RUPP's and would still require RUPP to move over 800 lbs of rifle for no reason so that a freight company picks them up.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5970[/ATTACH]


And finally we have the RUPP FBI interview http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...PK4IztR3IA

According to RUPP there is no proof he ever removed 3376 from storage, no proof that 3376 is related to the FEB order and more proof that these slips represent the JUNE 1962 shipment for which all documentation has been "lost" once Feldsott turned it over to the FBI. We have to believe that a 10 month delivery time was acceptable and that KLEINS advertised a rifle starting in March 1962, for which they ordered inventory on 1/15/62, yet never rec'd.

Yet another affidavit ignored which proves the rifle found could not and was not the rifle ordered, let alone shipped or rec'd by Oswald....



[ATTACH=CONFIG]5973[/ATTACH]

[Jim Hargrove]

Hi, David,

It's hard to fathom why the evidence for the Carcano and Hidell is so completely f.ed up. No doubt the plotters had to scramble for a murder weapon when Castro's friend and gun supplier Robert McKeown refused to sell a rifle to "Oswald" at the end of August '63. But the conspirators still had more than two and a half months to come up with something better than we ended up with. It's almost like they were sending a message that they had so much power they didn't even need to worry about the details.

[David Josephs]

Hi, David,

It's hard to fathom why the evidence for the Carcano and Hidell is so completely f.ed up. No doubt the plotters had to scramble for a murder weapon when Castro's friend and gun supplier Robert McKeown refused to sell a rifle to "Oswald" at the end of August '63. But the conspirators still had more than two and a half months to come up with something better than we ended up with. It's almost like they were sending a message that they had so much power they didn't even need to worry about the details.

Exactly Jim... As I've said... even if someone ran up to JFK and killed him with a rock, Oswald would have been guilty of using C2766 from the TSBD... based on the evidence offered.

And I wouldn't say "eff'd up" as much as choreographed. The FBI took all the originals which would have shown the Feldsott 91TS order going to Kleins in June 1962...
the reports, avoidance of C20-T750=36" rifle info and the Feldsott affidavit prove the charade

Cheers
DJ

[Jim Hargrove]

"Choreographed" seems like a generous term. If these guys were performing Swan Lake, they'd have been booed off a high school stage, at least when performing the Murder Weapon Waltz.

I can't keep burning our hosts' bandwidth with the money order that was never deposited, cashed, or processed, but a link to it is right here.

[David Josephs]

"Choreographed" seems like a generous term. If these guys were performing Swan Lake, they'd have been booed off a high school stage, at least when performing the Murder Weapon Waltz.

I can't keep burning our hosts' bandwidth with the money order that was never deposited, cashed, or processed, but a link to it is right here.

Something you may wish to investigate Jim... There is a page that follows the Waldman #10 that shows a $2116.91 total. If you look at the top left of the #10 you posted you will see the same number as a subtotal and first entry on that tape.... they go on to add to that total to reach the final total of $3804.67.

The PROBLEM is that Bank VP Wilmouth tells a much different story about the deposit, the date (3/15, not 3/13) and what the Fed Res Bank would have done and when. The MO should have a 3/18/63 stamp from the Fed Reserve at the very least. The numbers $1536.11 and $6178 have no relationship to this deposit... and the $21.45 transaction identified as Hidell's MO was actually the American Express check....

The other problem being that this USPS Money Order would not be considered "Checks on other Chicago Banks" but as a "Check on out of Town Banks" in the $9992.43 total. There is no $21.45 in those columns adding to that total.




[ATTACH=CONFIG]5974[/ATTACH]



That Kleins would microfilm the envelope and coupon yet not the money order is also very suspect. John's section on this in H&L is quite thorough with documents not offered elsewhere. At some point along the way the COST for shipping these rifles via Lipschultz is also changed from $.76/lb to what LOOKS like $5.27 for a total of $3953 instead of the $570. or am I reading this wrong?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5975[/ATTACH]

[Tracy Riddle]

The CIA probably supplied the weapon from their stockpile of cheap weapons to hand out to Third World counter-revolutionaries. It had to be cheap because LHO couldn't afford a really expensive, sophisticated rifle. They just left it up to the FBI to worry about creating a paper trail to "prove" it was Oswald's.

[Drew Phipps]

I've measured digitally the photos of the guns allegedly owned/used by Oswald. The one paraded thru the police station matches the measurements of the 91/38. However, the backyard photos show a gun that is actually 2 inches LONGER than the 91/38 (assuming that LHO is 5'9"). And it appears that the shipping orders and packing cases and freight weight documents reflect a SHORTER weapon than the 91/38 (whether carbine or TS). The anomaly that is the longer weapon in the backyard photos might be explained either by 1) it's a different weapon altogether, or 2) the person standing in the photos "wearing" LHO's face is 5'6" (making the weapon the right size to be a 91/38), or 3) the rifle has simply been photographically added to the photo.

[David Josephs]

Drew, Tracy - those appear like some interesting speculations for sure... yet only speculation... (Drew, you can perform photogrammetry? plesae do share your results as I think the following proves pretty conclusively that the BYP rifle is not the TSBD rifle:





[ATTACH=CONFIG]5976[/ATTACH]





Now the question to ask yourself... in 1976 the Dee White 133-C image was discovered. In 1991 5 more images of BYPs are found in DPD files.
1 image is an empty BYP that exactly matches the original BYPs
2 show a cutout of the pose from 133-C
2 are of DPD Bobby Brown posing in the 133-C pose...

How, if 133-C of Oswald in a completely different pose than 133-A or B, did the DPD know to put Brown in that pose in 1963 or to cut out "Oswald" from 2 of them in the same exact pose no one knew about, other than maybe Roscoe White, until 1976?

This is an overlay of 133-C and a photocopy of the BYP the DPD had in 1963/64. They can't even be lined up... and the cutout has a drop shadow

Any ideas?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5977[/ATTACH]

[Bob Prudhomme]

I hate to be a stick in the mud but, the rifle in the backyard photo is, without a doubt, either a 6.5mm M91/38 short rifle or a 7.35mm M38 short rifle. The giveaway is the metal cap/bayonet mount at the tip of the forestock. It is unique to the short rifle, and can be seen in both photos above. Also, if one looks closely at the backyard photos, one can see the groove in the forestock of this rifle. This feature is also unique to the short rifle.

[Drew Phipps]

whats photogrammeriety, precioussss? I don't have any fancy gear, just a pixel counting digital analysis software package. To avoid the 3D problems I find something with a known length on the same plane or "close" to the object I want to measure and compare pixel numbers. In the pictures of the magic bullet I measured for Bob, the bullet and the ruler appear to be on the same plane. In the backyard pictures "Oswald" is far enough away from the camera lens and close enough to the rifle he's holding that errors of foreshortening should be minimal.

If you use as a yardstick LHO's real height 5'9", then the gun he's holding is 2 inches too long to be the short rifle. If the "Oswald" in the picture is 5'6" the gun is the right size. I am no photo expert but if you took a photo of a shorter 5'6" guy holding the 91/38, and then cut him out of the picture and put Oswald there, "shrinking" Oswald to fit the 5'6" hole, then that would account for the discrepancy. How tall was Officer Brown? Perhaps the good Officer is a bit more stout than Oswald which might leave the "ghostly" image immediately to the right of Oswald...If the pics are the real "Oswald," and he had the shorter carbine in his hands, you could cut out the carbine image and put the 91/38 image where it used to be.