if you use as a yardstick LHO's real height 5'9", then the gun he's holding is 2 inches too long to be the short rifle. If the "Oswald" in the picture is 5'6" the gun is the right size. I am no photo expert but if you took a photo of a shorter 5'6" guy holding the 91/38, and then cut him out of the picture and put Oswald there, "shrinking" Oswald to fit the 5'6" hole, then that would account for the discrepancy. How tall was Officer Brown? Perhaps the good Officer is a bit more stout than Oswald which might leave the "ghostly" image immediately to the right of Oswald...
That explanation would make a lot more sense, as the rifle in the backyard photos can only be one thing, an M91/38 or an M38.
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
David's post #8 pretty much destroys Gil Jesus' bottom sling mount claim. In the photo in that post the sling can clearly be seen going into side mounts on the gun stocks.
Not to despair. Lee was obviously either being set-up by photo forgery or participating in setting himself up as an agent provocateur. Nothing unexpected from a CIA operative like Lee Harvey Oswald.
Drew Phipps Wrote:Whats the twist rate and the land/groove meaurements for the M38? the same? We already know that the magic bullet CE 399 wasn't fired from M91/38....
The rate of twist for the riflings in the 7.35mm M38 short rifle were 1:9.45. I don't know the precise measurements for the lands and grooves in the M38 but, from what I am told, they maintained the same land to groove relationship as was in the M91/38.
As the 7.35mm bullet weighed only 128 grains, as opposed to the 6.5mm bullet at 162 grains, it was felt that the slower rate of twist was sufficient to stabilize the lighter bullet.
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
Albert Doyle Wrote:David's post #8 pretty much destroys Gil Jesus' bottom sling mount claim. In the photo in that post the sling can clearly be seen going into side mounts on the gun stocks.
Not to despair. Lee was obviously either being set-up by photo forgery or participating in setting himself up as an agent provocateur. Nothing unexpected from a CIA operative like Lee Harvey Oswald.
Just as there is the odd Carcano short rifle with bottom mount sling rings, instead of side mount sling rings, it is not unheard of to see a Carcano with bottom and side mount sling rings.
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
so the twist rate displayed on CE 399 is also inconsistent with the M38. And the M91/38. And since the lands/grooves had the wrong ratio for the 91/38 it would alo hav been wrong for the M38.
Drew Phipps Wrote:so the twist rate displayed on CE 399 is also inconsistent with the M38. And the M91/38. And since the lands/grooves had the wrong ratio for the 91/38 it would alo hav been wrong for the M38.
Yes, CE 399 appears to be somewhat of an orphan, doesn't it. Just out of curiosity, when did the CE 399 we see in the evidence photos first make its debut?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
A picture similar to this one started circulating in newspapers in early 1964.[ATTACH=CONFIG]5986[/ATTACH]
But without the ruler or the archives card. And it was in black and white. Do you remember the story of Walt Cakebread (from another thread)? I admit I am ignorant of the provenance of these photos, other than they come from NARA, some are in .gif format, some .jpg. If memory serves, the .gif format is older.
Albert Doyle Wrote:David's post #8 pretty much destroys Gil Jesus' bottom sling mount claim. In the photo in that post the sling can clearly be seen going into side mounts on the gun stocks.
Not to despair. Lee was obviously either being set-up by photo forgery or participating in setting himself up as an agent provocateur. Nothing unexpected from a CIA operative like Lee Harvey Oswald.
FBI special agent Frazier testified at the trial of Louisiana v. Clay Shaw as a defense witness. As a part of his testimony, he described the location of the sling mounts. When asked to compare the Oswald rifle with the "similar" one (in evidence at that trial) he specifically said the Oswald rifle was different as having bottom mounted sling mounts. Now, I'm not claiming that he's a good witness. Or a credible one. But it is telling that it was the government's position in that case that the Oswald rifle was bottom-mounted, and yet in most of the government photos we see it appears to be side mounted.
Albert Doyle Wrote:David's post #8 pretty much destroys Gil Jesus' bottom sling mount claim. In the photo in that post the sling can clearly be seen going into side mounts on the gun stocks.
Not to despair. Lee was obviously either being set-up by photo forgery or participating in setting himself up as an agent provocateur. Nothing unexpected from a CIA operative like Lee Harvey Oswald.
FBI special agent Frazier testified at the trial of Louisiana v. Clay Shaw as a defense witness. As a part of his testimony, he described the location of the sling mounts. When asked to compare the Oswald rifle with the "similar" one (in evidence at that trial) he specifically said the Oswald rifle was different as having bottom mounted sling mounts. Now, I'm not claiming that he's a good witness. Or a credible one. But it is telling that it was the government's position in that case that the Oswald rifle was bottom-mounted, and yet in most of the government photos we see it appears to be side mounted.
The more I read about Frazier, the more of an enigma the man becomes. On one hand, he seems to be totally inept, making one error after another. On the other, it's like he's unable to tell the truth for fear of retribution, so he leaves these little clues in his testimony for us to figure out years later.
Is it possible Frazier was a very subtle whistleblower, and wanted us to see the charade he was forced to act in?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Warren Commission testimony of Secret Service Agent Clinton J. Hill, 1964
