The truth and bare facts about the Bay of Pigs

[Albert Doyle]

If Kennedy didn't want Castro living next door to him what kept Kennedy from using American military power?

The Soviet invasion of Europe in retaliation and WWIII.

[David Josephs]

Scott... are you of the opinion that if a politician says it.... that's what is actually happening?

The reports of a Cuban invasion and training build-up from nearby countries was in the papers for months. Castro had his own spies as did the Russians.

JFK listened to his intelligence staff... he had been president just over a year. They had free reign since 1947 and all of a sudden this young man was asking questions and demanding answers.
In "Wilderness of Mirrors" you get a great idea of the anxiety the CIA had over Cuba where only 90 miles away was a country they had virtually zero inteliigence about...

Communists are knocking at our side door and you think JFK would have stopped the plan?

And why is it Scott that you fail to discuss how the followup analysis all found BUNDY the source of the cancellation of the air support.
Bundy, Harriman, McCloy, Gilpatrick...

Skull and Bones, NSC, IMF, Cravath-Swaine-Moore, Harvard. It feels to me that you do not grasp the actual lack of control JFK had over his administration, the Military, his ambassadors, and the MICC.

Let's see... stopping overtly, the attacks on Cuba while working thru hus brother to secure the man;s death, all while being told that Castro's death would most likely not change anything in Cuba.

The "truth and bare facts" about Cuba and the Bay of Pigs is that Cuba was not like any other conquest of the CIA. It was wholly controlled by Castro.. where as in the rest of the world a buildup of forces against communism had been taking place for many years (not as many as the Communists who had been infultrating "western" countries since the mid 1800's...)

The CIA was purely Military-Industrial-Congressional-Complex creation, imo, that allowed the world to focus ont eh big bad CIA while the planning happened at the MICC level.
When parts of the CIA grew uncontrollable... it was dealt with.

After BOP, the JCS was put in charge of covert activity. While Harvey is trying to get Roselli and Giancana to kill Castro and exposing the USG to blackmail,
the Military is thinking of things like Northwoods and First Strike against USSR.

When JFK is finally killed... it is the MILITARY and those who had served in the Military who controlled all the evidence.
Lansdale was Military, Dulles, Hunt, shakely, Morales, etc.... all Military operating under cover for the CIA.

IMO the Military knew BOP was designed to fail and they did nothing to help JFK understand so they in turn could gain control of the CIA "asset".
Bring in McCone and what occurs is the official division between what is known and what is never to be spoken of... ZR/RIFLE, QJ/WIN does not end after BOP... it intensifies.

Bottom line? it was easier to kill JFK than Castro... and much more advantegeous to the MICC.

[Scott Kaiser]

When JFK is finally killed... it is the MILITARY and those who had served in the Military who controlled all the evidence.
Lansdale was Military, Dulles, Hunt, shakely, Morales, etc.... all Military operating under cover for the CIA.

A riddle for a riddle, and an answer for a question, answer me this. Now that they killed JFK and Bobby, Nixon was next in line, Op 40 was birthed under the administration of Eisenhower with the VP leading the way, but no wars broke out after JFK was gone.

Why?


Answer me this I will answer your Bundy?

IMO the Military knew BOP was designed to fail

I try not to always give my opinion, but when I do, people listen, stay thirsty my friends.

Not to mention that my father always said, opinions are like what? Everybody has one. ::pullhairout::

The Bay of Pigs was never designed to fail, they were "deceived" by (everyone). Just as I said in the beginning of this thread. ::philosopher::


I wonder, are they getting "deceived" again? ::

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8thxr4_y78

[Albert Doyle]

DiEugenio and Douglass describe how Kennedy was forced to go along, at least on the surface, with the original anti-Castro plans because he had no choice and would be damaged politically by not doing so. JFK then resolved this dilemma by making the moves that got him killed.

Obama is sort of the opposite. He resists on the surface but then implements the right-wing status quo in his actions.

[Scott Kaiser]

plans are not drawn up "designed to fail", that is not logical, they are however, drawn up with the attention of deceiving Congress or the President so that either one may call upon an act of war, Iraq, Guatemala, Kuwait and Afghanistan, Vietnam and 911. All wars drawn up by the CIA not designed to fail, but to deceive.

As I said in the beginning

[Scott Kaiser]

DiEugenio and Douglass describe how Kennedy was forced to go along, at least on the surface, with the original anti-Castro plans because he had no choice and would be damaged politically by not doing so. JFK then resolved this dilemma by making the moves that got him killed.

Obama is sort of the opposite. He resists on the surface but then implements the right-wing status quo in his actions.

how Kennedy was forced to go along, at least on the surface, with the original anti-Castro plans because he had no choice and would be damaged politically by not doing so

::facepalm::

[Albert Doyle]

A riddle for a riddle, and an answer for a question, answer me this. Now that they killed JFK and Bobby, Nixon was next in line, Op 40 was birthed under the administration of Eisenhower with the VP leading the way, but no wars broke out after JFK was gone.

Why?

Ever heard of a little jungle scrimmage called "Viet Nam"?

[David Josephs]

When JFK is finally killed... it is the MILITARY and those who had served in the Military who controlled all the evidence.
Lansdale was Military, Dulles, Hunt, shakely, Morales, etc.... all Military operating under cover for the CIA.

A riddle for a riddle, and an answer for a question, answer me this. Now that they killed JFK and Bobby, Nixon was next in line, Op 40 was birthed under the administration of Eisenhower with the VP leading the way, but no wars broke out after JFK was gone.

Why?


Answer me this I will answer your Bundy?

IMO the Military knew BOP was designed to fail

I try not to always give my opinion, but when I do, people listen, stay thirsty my friends.

Not to mention that my father always said, opinions are like what? Everybody has one.

The Bay of Pigs was never designed to fail, they were "deceived" by everyone. Just as I said in the beginning of this thread.

I wonder, are they getting "deceived" again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8thxr4_y78

"No wars broke out after JFK was gone... " I don't know what this means Scott. Vietnam may not have been a "war" but it certainly escalates under Johnson while Nixon was who knows where.

196275 Laos: From October 1962 until 1975, the United States played an important role in military support of anti-Communist forces in Laos.[SUP][RL30172][/SUP]
1964 Congo (Zaïre): The United States sent four transport planes to provide airlift for Congolese troops during a rebellion and to transport Belgian paratroopers to rescue foreigners.[SUP][RL30172][/SUP]
1965 Invasion of Dominican Republic: Operation Power Pack, The United States intervened to protect lives and property during a Dominican revolt and sent 20,000 U.S. troops as fears grew that the revolutionary forces were coming increasingly under Communist control.[SUP][RL30172][/SUP] A popular rebellion breaks out, promising to reinstall Juan Bosch as the country's elected leader. The revolution is crushed when U.S. Marines land to uphold the military regime by force. The CIA directs everything behind the scenes.
1967 Israel: The USS Liberty incident, whereupon a United States Navy Technical Research Ship was attacked June 8, 1967 by Israeli armed forces, killing 34 and wounding more than 170 U.S. crew members.
1967 Congo (Zaïre): The United States sent three military transport aircraft with crews to provide the Congo central government with logistical support during a revolt.[SUP][RL30172][/SUP]
1968 Laos & Cambodia: U.S. starts secret bombing campaign against targets along the Ho Chi Minh trail in the sovereign nations of Cambodia and Laos. The bombings last at least two years. (See Operation Commando Hunt)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war...ted_States
Colombia, Dominican Republic, Bolivia, Korean DMA, Cambodia, Arghanistan 1979, Gulf of Sidra...

How can you make that statement?
---------

What DID happen after JFK was Cuba was dropped entirely... No more invasions, only "Murder Inc." in Central and South America, Gladio in Europe, not to mention all the other "hot zones" in the world egged on by the CIA/Military.

If you understand that the events on the Global stage are both orchestrated and manipulated to gain more power and money for a very small group of people
That this same group funds both sides of every conflict we've ever had
That this group would LOSE if there was a nuclear war... not to their advantage and no real upside....

If you want to make this about verbiage, deceived vs planned to fail, I think you may be downplaying the larger picture. Those outside the CIA were deceived to believe there was a chance the plan could succeed in it's OVERT goal of invading Cuba... The plan was designed to include heavy US military intervention while at every step the "planners" knew that was not going to happen unless JFK was backed into a corner... and it STILL did not happen. That you fail to see that the BOP "plan" had numerous Objectives, primarily that of showing JFK who was in charge on the world stage...: Bundy, Harriman, and on up the food chain to the faceless owners of the MICC.

So,

Answer me this I will answer your Bundy?

By the way Scott... before you answer, you may wish to do a little reading up on Textron and their ultimate purchase of BELL HELICOPTER. Names like General Cabal, and the partners at Cravath, Swaine and Moore... the Banks of Montreal and Boston, Morgan/Rockefeller/Rothschild owned insurance companies... when you overlay the context of United Fruit, the FBI's SIS and the ultimate Nazi/Russian creation of the CIA to help oversee the covert stealing of human assets from under the Russian's nose, I think you may have a better appreciation for the ultimate objectives of these CIA plans... and the actual Masters of the MICC.

PEace
DJ

[Scott Kaiser]

When JFK is finally killed... it is the MILITARY and those who had served in the Military who controlled all the evidence.
Lansdale was Military, Dulles, Hunt, shakely, Morales, etc.... all Military operating under cover for the CIA.

A riddle for a riddle, and an answer for a question, answer me this. Now that they killed JFK and Bobby, Nixon was next in line, Op 40 was birthed under the administration of Eisenhower with the VP leading the way, but no wars broke out after JFK was gone.

Why?


Answer me this I will answer your Bundy?

IMO the Military knew BOP was designed to fail

I try not to always give my opinion, but when I do, people listen, stay thirsty my friends.

Not to mention that my father always said, opinions are like what? Everybody has one.

The Bay of Pigs was never designed to fail, they were "deceived" by everyone. Just as I said in the beginning of this thread.

I wonder, are they getting "deceived" again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8thxr4_y78

"No wars broke out after JFK was gone... " I don't know what this means Scott. Vietnam may not have been a "war" but it certainly escalates under Johnson while Nixon was who knows where.

196275 Laos: From October 1962 until 1975, the United States played an important role in military support of anti-Communist forces in Laos.[SUP][RL30172][/SUP]
1964 Congo (Zaïre): The United States sent four transport planes to provide airlift for Congolese troops during a rebellion and to transport Belgian paratroopers to rescue foreigners.[SUP][RL30172][/SUP]
1965 Invasion of Dominican Republic: Operation Power Pack, The United States intervened to protect lives and property during a Dominican revolt and sent 20,000 U.S. troops as fears grew that the revolutionary forces were coming increasingly under Communist control.[SUP][RL30172][/SUP] A popular rebellion breaks out, promising to reinstall Juan Bosch as the country's elected leader. The revolution is crushed when U.S. Marines land to uphold the military regime by force. The CIA directs everything behind the scenes.
1967 Israel: The USS Liberty incident, whereupon a United States Navy Technical Research Ship was attacked June 8, 1967 by Israeli armed forces, killing 34 and wounding more than 170 U.S. crew members.
1967 Congo (Zaïre): The United States sent three military transport aircraft with crews to provide the Congo central government with logistical support during a revolt.[SUP][RL30172][/SUP]
1968 Laos & Cambodia: U.S. starts secret bombing campaign against targets along the Ho Chi Minh trail in the sovereign nations of Cambodia and Laos. The bombings last at least two years. (See Operation Commando Hunt)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war...ted_States
Colombia, Dominican Republic, Bolivia, Korean DMA, Cambodia, Arghanistan 1979, Gulf of Sidra...

How can you make that statement?
---------

What DID happen after JFK was Cuba was dropped entirely... No more invasions, only "Murder Inc." in Central and South America, Gladio in Europe, not to mention all the other "hot zones" in the world egged on by the CIA/Military.

If you understand that the events on the Global stage are both orchestrated and manipulated to gain more power and money for a very small group of people
That this same group funds both sides of every conflict we've ever had
That this group would LOSE if there was a nuclear war... not to their advantage and no real upside....

If you want to make this about verbiage, deceived vs planned to fail, I think you may be downplaying the larger picture. Those outside the CIA were deceived to believe there was a chance the plan could succeed in it's OVERT goal of invading Cuba... The plan was designed to include heavy US military intervention while at every step the "planners" knew that was not going to happen unless JFK was backed into a corner... and it STILL did not happen. That you fail to see that the BOP "plan" had numerous Objectives, primarily that of showing JFK who was in charge on the world stage...: Bundy, Harriman, and on up the food chain to the faceless owners of the MICC.

So,

Answer me this I will answer your Bundy?

By the way Scott... before you answer, you may wish to do a little reading up on Textron and their ultimate purchase of BELL HELICOPTER. Names like General Cabal, and the partners at Cravath, Swaine and Moore... the Banks of Montreal and Boston, Morgan/Rockefeller/Rothschild owned insurance companies... when you overlay the context of United Fruit, the FBI's SIS and the ultimate Nazi/Russian creation of the CIA to help oversee the covert stealing of human assets from under the Russian's nose, I think you may have a better appreciation for the ultimate objectives of these CIA plans... and the actual Masters of the MICC.

PEace
DJ

Sorry, I had to re-edit [post 43] to make it a bit more cognized..::willynilly::


BTW... Vietnam and Laos where pre Kennedy not post Kennedy!

[Scott Kaiser]

Well, you really gave me nothing to my question, the wars you speak of were pre Kennedy not post Kennedy. Those struggles have been ongoing for years prior to Kennedy taking office, any "major wars" such as Vietnam or Korea happened (what I mean is the START of a NEW war) after all the kings men you pointed out in post [42] after taking Kennedy out?