The Truth about the WC at Last

[Drew Phipps]

Bob: Truly and Baker saw Oswald drinking a coke in the second floor lunchroom. Carolyn Arnold said she saw him in that lunchroom, and (later) even walked a TV reporter to the exact spot she saw him, though I don't recall her saying anything about a coke. (Coincidentally, this exact clip aired last night 7/4/14 on the travel channel show America Declassified, where they also proved it was possible for Lee Bowers to see a puff of smoke coming from a rifle shot on the grassy knoll, from his position in the switching station). Fritz' notes, and other peoples' recollections of the interrogations, reflect that Oswald said something similar after his arrest.

Why on earth would Truly, Baker, and Arnold conspire with Oswald to give him a cast iron alibi? And it would have to be a conspiracy, unless you believe that the three of them might be somehow privy to the secrets of the interrogation. And after he was dead, and arguably the most hated man on earth, why would they persist, risking public humiliation, government harassment, possible loss of employment?

[Jim DiEugenio]

Boy did this thread go astray or what?

FYI, Sean Murphy had many of these objections relayed to him at that very long thread at Spartacus already.

You have to read the whole thing.

He s not saying that PM was outside at the exact time of the shooting. He cannot prove that.

He says he can show that PM was outside in the foyer next to Frazier a very short time after the shooting. Like when Baker goes up the steps.

ANd BTW Drew, neither Truly nor Baker ever saw Oswald drinking a coke.

THat is negated by me in Reclaiming Parkland, and even more thoroughly by Sean.

That is one of the WC myths that the first generation critics accepted and they should not have.

[Drew Phipps]

If Prayer Man is Oswald, and he's standing on the front steps as Baker runs past him, how does he get in front of Baker before the second floor lunchroom? He must pass the hurrying officer in the hall, or on the stairs. And then how can Officer Baker still (initially) suspect that he might be the shooter, having seen him TWICE already, within 2 minutes, in perfectly innocent locations?

[Drew Phipps]

I see now that Baker's original statement to the FBI included the phrase "drinking a coke," which was scratched out and the scratch out initialed by Baker.

Product placement is everything.

I also note that even though Baker thought Oswald didn't react to having a gun pointed at him, Truly tells a TV reporter that Oswald looked "a little startled." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOh6t-Q9Hzs

[Albert Doyle]

Boy did this thread go astray or what?

FYI, Sean Murphy had many of these objections relayed to him at that very long thread at Spartacus already.

You have to read the whole thing.

He s not saying that PM was outside at the exact time of the shooting. He cannot prove that.

He says he can show that PM was outside in the foyer next to Frazier a very short time after the shooting. Like when Baker goes up the steps.

Which is good reason why it can't be Oswald. I agree with Drew on this one. You can see Baker dashing in on the Darnell Film. Prayer Man is clearly relaxed as Baker rushes to the steps. Therefore it is unlikely Prayer Man would jump in front of a cop moving towards the front door. At that point we know from Baker's testimony that he momentarily mingled with Truly in the front lobby. That was a bottleneck that Prayer Man, if he was Oswald, would soon have to enter and be seen by a high number of people in the entry and lobby. That just don't hunt.


I think Lauren wanted this to go to the original thread.


Maybe FBI got the Coke scratched because it matched Geneva Hine's tale? That would show cooperation by Baker in his witnessing that might extend to his not mentioning the lunchroom encounter in his initial reports.


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[Jim DiEugenio]

If Prayer Man is Oswald, and he's standing on the front steps as Baker runs past him, how does he get in front of Baker before the second floor lunchroom? He must pass the hurrying officer in the hall, or on the stairs. And then how can Officer Baker still (initially) suspect that he might be the shooter, having seen him TWICE already, within 2 minutes, in perfectly innocent locations?

Drew, as I said, there are many people, including me and Sean, who question whether or not the lunchroom encounter happened.

And we have good reasons to do so.

If one looks at Baker's first day affidavit, there is no mention of it at all. Period. And what makes that even harder to understand is this: When Baker filled out the affidavit with no mention at all of this incident, Oswald was sitting right across from him in the room.

But Sean goes into way more depth on this whole chimera than I can.

IMO, the lunchroom incident was manufactured by the Dallas Police. They needed this whole second floor debate--could he have flown down the stairs that fast--to detract from the point that Oswald was on the first floor.

But, too late, Barry Ernest's book has proven that Oswald was never on those stairs at all.

How bad was the WC? They knew about Oswald being in the room with Baker, and they knew Vicki Adams was telling the truth. THey did all they could to conceal both facts.

[Albert Doyle]

Drew, as I said, there are many people, including me and Sean, who question whether or not the lunchroom encounter happened.

And we have good reasons to do so.

If one looks at Baker's first day affidavit, there is no mention of it at all. Period. And what makes that even harder to understand is this: When Baker filled out the affidavit with no mention at all of this incident, Oswald was sitting right across from him in the room.

Maybe Baker was induced by FBI to scratch out the Coke because it matched Geneva Hine's story too much? Maybe it simply served as evidence of Oswald not having enough time to be upstairs if he had a Coke?


If this is the case then Baker may have been cooperating and left out Oswald being in the lunchroom because of similar issues with identifying a known Carousel club/Jack Ruby colleague.


Maybe Baker saw an Oswald double walking away from the 4th floor landing. Having seen two Oswalds maybe he cooperated and left one of them out for the time being.


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[Drew Phipps]

Albert: I wonder if you could point me to the book or article or quote by Geneva Hines about the coke money cause she doesn't say anything like that in her WC testimony. I haven't read your material.

That said, there is something strange about the way she responded to questions:

"Mr. BALL. Did you see Oswald come in?
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Miss HINE. My back would have been to the door he was supposed to have

come in at.

Mr. BALL. Were you facing the door he is supposed to have left by?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Do you recall seeing him?

Miss HINE. No, sir."


You would think the answer to "did you see him?," would be a yes or no. Instead she offers an explanation. And you are left to wonder why she thinks Oswald was supposed to do something a particular way, or why she is "supposing" that something did or didn't happen if she didn't see it. Is she saying that someone told her that Oswald did "x" but she didn't see "x" happen?

And Ball seems to be deliberately obscuring the unresponsiveness of her answer by adopting her turn of phrase.

[size=12]Ms. Hines is ("supposedly") wandering around the building right after the shooting, knocking on doors and rattling doorknobs (I "suppose" looking for help). She runs past the elevator twice? Other than a woman talking on a phone behind a locked door, she doesn't see anyone on the second floor, or the stairs, or the elevator, until a group of her fellow employees return, which apparently happens before the police come in as well..

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[Drew Phipps]

If one looks at Baker's first day affidavit, there is no mention of it at all. Period. And what makes that even harder to understand is this: When Baker filled out the affidavit with no mention at all of this incident, Oswald was sitting right across from him in the room.

I thought Baker's first DPD report/affidavit was that his encounter with a unnamed TSBD employee (who was vouched for by Truly) was on the third or fourth floor...which would have been much better for the official story. Oswald was sitting right there in the station at that point as well, and he is not named in that statement. Why wouldn't a post-assassination frame up use that version of events, as opposed to having to settle for the far more problematic lunchroom story?

I must say that the Geneva Hines WC testimony is the best evidence I've seen so far supporting the idea that Oswald was on the first floor the entire time of the assassination. Since she was facing the door out and didn't see him leave the second floor. She was busy on the phone, though.

[Albert Doyle]

Albert: I wonder if you could point me to the book or article or quote by Geneva Hines about the coke money cause she doesn't say anything like that in her WC testimony. I haven't read your material.
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http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/04/14/...rt-groden/