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Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live
#81
It is quite possible that the medical cargo had some thing to do with the 100 people on board going to the AIDS conference in Melbourne.

The zombie thing is getting quite a laugh in Moscow right now.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#82
Peter Lemkin Wrote:I didn't look at it, to be clear, but the transport of bodies long dead for burial or re-burial and/or medical corpses destined for medical schools or for other purposes is not that rare an event.

Very true. And it is a nice little earner it is for the airlines too. Much more than a first class seat and they don't eat or have to be waited on by hostesses. They just lie very quietly in the cargo hold not causing any trouble for anyone.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#83
Magda Hassan Wrote:
Peter Lemkin Wrote:I didn't look at it, to be clear, but the transport of bodies long dead for burial or re-burial and/or medical corpses destined for medical schools or for other purposes is not that rare an event.

Very true. And it is a nice little earner it is for the airlines too. Much more than a first class seat and they don't eat or have to be waited on by hostesses. They just lie very quietly in the cargo hold.

Such are not listed in the cargo manifest I saw, but the manifest lists include 'consolidated cargo' which is NOT enumerated or listed as to contents....or the manifest could be incomplete. All too many airline crashes are shrouded in mysteries not fully resolved.::drwho::
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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#84
There are four separate documents available at that site. I couldn't get three of them to attach to the post.

There is nothing startling on the other pages to my untrained eye.

Wonder if the flowers were some sort of "Little Shop of Horrors" bloodsucking vines...
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)

James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."

Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."

Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
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#85
Drew Phipps Wrote:There are four separate documents available at that site. I couldn't get three of them to attach to the post.


I looked at all four - nothing special itemized.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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#86
I doubt a passenger flight was flying around large numbers of corpses. That would take refrigeration that would be more likely for a cargo flight rather than passenger IMO. Malaysian medical schools likely have their own cadavers.


Somewhere you have to have a complete manifest because the aircraft flies on a weight and balance system that is figured out by computer.
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#87
Albert Doyle Wrote:I doubt a passenger flight was flying around large numbers of corpses. That would take refrigeration that would be more likely for a cargo flight rather than passenger IMO. Malaysian medical schools likely have their own cadavers.


Somewhere you have to have a complete manifest because the aircraft flies on a weight and balance system that is figured out by computer.
Passenger planes can also carry cargo and it gets bloody cold in the unpressurised areas like the cargo hold I doubt refrigeration needed but dry ice used if needed. Unaccompanied corpses probably go by cargo plane but many of them are accompnied by family on passenger planes.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#88
Shimatsu's take on MH370:




He seems like quite an insightful and credible individual.
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.”
― Leo Tolstoy,
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#89
From Pepe Escobar on RT:

http://rt.com/op-edge/174088-was-it-putin-missile/



​It was Putin's missile?


Pepe Escobar is the roving correspondent for Asia Times/Hong Kong, an analyst for RT and TomDispatch, and a frequent contributor to websites and radio shows ranging from the US to East Asia.


Here's the spin war verdict: the current Malaysian Airlines tragedy the second in four months is "terrorism" perpetrated by "pro-Russian separatists" armed by Russia and Putin is the main culprit. End of story. Anyone who believes otherwise, shut up.

Why? Because the CIA said so. Because Hillary We came, we saw, he died' Clinton said so. Because crazy Samantha R2P' Power said so thundering at the UN, everything duly printed by the neo-con infested Washington Post.

Because Anglo-American corporate media from CNN to Fox (who tried to buy Time Warner, which owns CNN) said so. Because the President of the United States (POTUS) said so. And mostly because Kiev had vociferously said so in the first place.

Right off the bat they were all lined up the invariably hysterical reams of experts' of the US intelligence community' literally foaming at their palatial mouths at evil' Russia and evil' Putin; intel experts' who could not identify a convoy of gleaming white Toyotas crossing the Iraqi desert to take Mosul. And yet they have already sentenced; they don't need to look any further, instantly solving the MH17 riddle.

It doesn't matter that President Putin has stressed the MH17 tragedy must be investigated objectively. And objectively' certainly does not mean that fictional international community' notion construed by Washington the usual congregation of pliable vassals/patsies.

And what about Carlos?

A simple search reveals that MH17 was in fact diverted 200km north from the usual flight path taken by Malaysian Airlines in the previous days and plunged right in the middle of a war zone. Why? What sort of communication had MH17 received from the Kiev air control tower?

Kiev has been mute about it. Yet the answer would be simple, had Kiev released the Air Traffic Control recording of the tower talking to flight MH17; Malaysia did it after flight MH370 disappeared forever.

It won't happen; SBU security confiscated it. So much for getting an undoctored explanation as to why MH17 was off its path, and what the pilots saw and said before the explosion.

The Russian Defense Ministry, for its part, has confirmed that a Kiev-controlled Buk anti-aircraft missile battery was operational near the MH17's crash. Kiev has deployed several batteries of Buk surface-to-air missile systems with at least 27 launchers; these are all perfectly capable of bringing down jets flying at 33,000 ft.

Radiation from a battery's Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla [a village some 30km south of Donetsk] was detected by the Russian military. According to the ministry, the radar could be providing tracking information to another battery which was at a firing distance from MH17's flight path.

The tracking radar range on the Buk system is a maximum of 50 miles (80km). MH17 was flying at 500mph. So assuming the rebels' had an operational Buk and did it, they would have had not more than five minutes to scan all the skies above, all possible altitudes, and then lock on. By then they would have known that a cargo plane could not possibly be flying that high.

For evidence supporting the possibility of a false flag, check here.

And then there's the curiouser and curiouser story of Carlos, the Spanish air traffic controller working at Kiev's tower, who was following MH17 in real time. For some Carlos is legit - not a cipher; for others, he's never even worked in Ukraine. Anyway he tweeted like mad. His account not accidentally has been shut down and he has disappeared. His friends are now desperately looking for him. I managed to read all his tweets in Spanish when the account was still online. And now copies and an English translation are available.

These are some of his crucial tweets:

"The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar (5.48pm)"

"If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)"

"As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)"

"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don't believe it, it was taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it too (7.14)"

"The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the Ministry of Defense didn't. (7.15)"

"The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from. (7.31)"

Carlos's assessment (a partial compilation of his tweets is collected here: the missile was fired by the Ukraine military under orders of the Ministry of Interior - NOT the Ministry of Defense. Security matters at the Ministry of the Interior happen to be under Andrey Paruby, who was closely working alongside US neo-cons and Banderastan neo-Nazis on Maidan.

Assuming Carlos is legit, the assessment makes sense. The Ukrainian military are divided between Chocolate king [President Petro] Poroshenko who would like a détente with Russia essentially to advance his shady business interests - and St. Yulia Tymoshenko, who's on the record advocating genocide of ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine. US neo-cons and US "military advisers" on the ground are proverbially hedging their bets, supporting both the Poroshenko and Tymoshenko factions.

So who profits?

The key question remains, of course, cui bono? Only the terminally brain dead believe shooting a passenger jet benefits the federalists in eastern Ukraine, not to mention the Kremlin.

As for Kiev, they'd have the means, the motive and the window of opportunity to pull it off especially after Kiev's militias have been effectively routed, and were in retreat, in the Donbass. And this after Kiev remained dead set on attacking and bombing the population of eastern Ukraine even from above. No wonder the federalists had to defend themselves.

And then there's the suspicious timing. The MH17 tragedy happened two days after the BRICS announced an antidote to the IMF and the World Bank, bypassing the US dollar. And just as Israel cautiously' advances its new invasion/slow-motion-ethnic-cleansing of Gaza. Malaysia, by the way, is the seat of the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission, which has found Israel guilty of crimes against humanity.

Washington, of course, does profit. What the Empire of Chaos gets in this case is a ceasefire (so the disorganized, battered Kiev militias may be resupplied); the branding of eastern Ukrainians as de facto terrorists' (as Kiev, Dick Cheney-style, always wanted); and unlimited mud thrown over Russia and Putin in particular until Kingdom Come. Not bad for a few minutes' work. As for NATO, that's Christmas in July.

From now on, it all depends on Russian intelligence. They have been surveilling/tracking everything that happens in Ukraine 24/7. In the next 72 hours, after poring over a lot of tracking data, using telemetry, radar and satellite tracking, they will know which type of missile was launched, from where, and even produce communications from the battery that launched it. And they will have access to forensic evidence.

Unlike Washington who already knows everything, with no evidence whatsoever (remember 9/11?) Moscow will take its time to know the basic journalistic facts of what, where, and who, and engage on proving the truth and/or disproving Washington's spin.

The historical record shows Washington simply won't release data if it points to a missile coming from its Kiev vassals. The data may even point to a bomb planted on MH17, or mechanical failure although that's unlikely. If this was a terrible mistake by the Novorossiya rebels, Moscow will have to reluctantly admit it. If Kiev did it, the revelation will be instantaneous. Anyway we already know the hysterical Western response, no matter what; Russia is to blame.

Putin is more than correct when he stressed this tragedy would not have happened if Poroshenko had agreed to extend a ceasefire, as Merkel, Hollande and Putin tried to convince him to do in late June. At a minimum, Kiev is already guilty because they are responsible for safe passage of flights in the airspace they theoretically control.

But all that is already forgotten in the fog of war, tragedy and hype. As for Washington's hysterical claims of credibility, I leave you with just one number: Iran Air 655.
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.”
― Leo Tolstoy,
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#90
"Carlos's assessment (a partial compilation of his tweets is collected here: the missile was fired by the Ukraine military under orders of the Ministry of Interior - NOT the Ministry of Defense. Security matters at the Ministry of the Interior happen to be under Andrey Paruby, who was closely working alongside US neo-cons and Banderastan neo-Nazis on Maidan. " I have no idea whether the downing of the airplane was a mistake by the separatists or a false flag operation. Also, I have no opinion on the authenticity of "Carlos." But I know a thing or two about Andriy Parubiy (see Wiki for some basics): The guy is a Nazi, he was most certainly involved in the false flag sniper shootings on Maidan (the defining moment of the crisis): http://orientalreview.org/2014/05/29/who...astermind/ This is the most plausible summary of the case against Parubiy I have yet came across. If somebody knows more about the "Oriental Review", supposedly an independent journal from Moscow, I'd be glad for some thoughts on the journal's reliability). Parubiy was also involved in the Odessa massacre which was almost certainly a false flag operation as well (the separatists/federalists killing Maidanists before the massacre in the trade union building took place were most probably agents provocateurs who worked in collusion with the police, a view that is supported by the infamous red armbands that no-one in the Western MSM dares to mention). As the Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of the Ukraine Parubiy is NATO's go-to-guy in the Ukraine, leading the Ukrainian side in the Ukraine-NATO contact group in Brussels. Parubiy is a Nazi paramilitary, he is responsible for the military action in eastern Ukraine, he is probably a false flag expert. Parubiy is the man who makes things happen on the ground. If, and it is still a big if, this was a false flag operation it is highly probable that Parubiy was involved. To be sure, this is speculation from the "cui bono" and circumstantial evidence angle... (Written in a hurry in my second language.) Ralf
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