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Victims
Killed
- Frédéric Boisseau, 42, building maintenance worker for Sodexo, killed in the lobby
- Franck Brinsolaro, 49, Protection Service police officer, assigned as a bodyguard for Charb[SUP][97][/SUP]
- Cabu (Jean Cabut), 76, cartoonist
- Elsa Cayat, 54, psychoanalyst and columnist of Jewish religion.[SUP][98][/SUP][SUP][99][/SUP] The only woman killed at Charlie Hebdo' Paris headquarters.[SUP][100][/SUP] Appearing on CNN, Cayat's cousin speculated about the killing, stating the killers "spared all the women, and she was the only one killed, and she was the only one [of the women who was] Jewish", and that Cayat had been receiving anonymous phone calls for a while, being told, "[D]irty Jew you should stop working for Charlie Hebdo otherwise we're gonna kill you."[SUP][99][/SUP]
- Charb (Stéphane Charbonnier), 47, cartoonist, columnist, andeditor-in-chief of Charlie Hebdo. His partner, former government minister Jeannette Bougrab, reported to the media, "I always knew he was going to die like Theo van Gogh".[SUP][101][/SUP]
- Philippe Honoré, 74, cartoonist
- Bernard Maris, 68, economist, editor, and columnist[SUP][102][/SUP][SUP][103][/SUP]
- Ahmed Merabet, 42, a Muslim police officer of Algeriandescent,[SUP][104][/SUP][SUP][105][/SUP] shot in the head as he lay wounded on the ground outside.[SUP][106][/SUP] According to Ahmed's brother, Malek Merabet, the police officer "was very proud of the name Ahmed Merabet and was proud to represent the police and of defending the values of the Republic liberty, equality, fraternity."[SUP][107][/SUP]
- Mustapha Ourrad (fr), 60, journalist French-Algerian copy-editor.[SUP][105][/SUP]
- Michel Renaud, 69, guest at the meeting[SUP][108][/SUP]
- Tignous (Bernard Verlhac), 57, cartoonist.[SUP][109][/SUP]
- Georges Wolinski, 80, cartoonist born in Tunisia of Jewish descent[SUP][110][/SUP]
Wounded
Three people at the meeting were unharmed: Gérard Gaillard, who was a guest, and two staff members, Sigolène Vinson (fr) and Laurent Léger (fr). The cartoonist who arrived late and was coerced into letting the shooters inside the building was Coco, also unharmed.[SUP][116][/SUP][SUP][117][/SUP][SUP][118]
I'm just wondering - they MUST have had a plan of how to enter the building other than forcing Coco to punch in the code - they couldn't have known she'd be there when they arrived. Many pieces of this puzzle don't fit.[/SUP]
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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So, have the Turks really gone off-message or this all just part of the theatre?
My instincts favour the latter.
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.â€
― Leo Tolstoy,
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As I now understand it nowhere in the Koran does it proscribe that images of the prophet Mohammed are not allowed. Up through the Middle Ages images of Mohammed were common - then for some Muslims the habit of covering the face was brought in; later, followed by the general feeling that such images were improper [at best], blasphemous and punishable [at the extreme]. It is all interpretation and a more recent one. But perception and prejudice always take place over fact and logic - this is not particular to Muslims. People IMO find in their religious texts what they WANT to find there to justify their actions and beliefs - thought they always insist it is the other way around.
I had not realized until yesterday that two Muslims were killed in the shooting at the CH paper. Also, two there were Jews. In France now, both the Jewish and Muslim communities for different reasons, but over the same incident, are very afraid and upset. Much of the rest of French society is as well - but mostly in less personally direct ways. It is ironic that the ostensible curtailment of freedom of speech and action the attackers symbolized in some part is now being furthered by the increased surveillance and numbers of troops on the streets, etc. If the French Parliament passes new laws further curtailing freedoms [likely] then the question will certainly be who won.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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Peter Lemkin Wrote:I had not realized until yesterday that two Muslims were killed in the shooting at the CH paper. Also, two there were Jews.
I didn't know that. The Jewish woman that was murdered there had received abusive phone calls in recent days and weeks telling her that she should leave the magazine and work somewhere else. Form the previous post
Quote: Cayat's cousin speculated about the killing, stating the killers "spared all the women, and she was the only one killed, and she was the only one [of the women who was] Jewish", and that Cayat had been receiving anonymous phone calls for a while, being told, "[D]irty Jew you should stop working for Charlie Hebdo otherwise we're gonna kill you."
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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This report that one of the shooters had blue eyes seems to have vanished.....it would prove a false-flag attack. Anyone know who reported this - which witness survivor?
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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14-01-2015, 09:24 AM
(This post was last modified: 14-01-2015, 11:05 AM by David Guyatt.)
Peter Lemkin Wrote:This report that one of the shooters had blue eyes seems to have vanished.....it would prove a false-flag attack. Anyone know who reported this - which witness survivor?
Post 154 above. Just to emphasise the point, it was a Charlie hedbo journalist who said this in a TV interview. One imagines that she had no reason to say this other than reciting what she saw. But we need to establish the identity of said journalist to be certain.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge. Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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David Guyatt Wrote:Peter Lemkin Wrote:This report that one of the shooters had blue eyes seems to have vanished.....it would prove a false-flag attack. Anyone know who reported this - which witness survivor?
Post 154 above. Just to emphasise the point, it was a Charlie hedbo journalist who said this in a TV interview. One imagines that she had no reason to say this other than reciting what she saw. But we need to establish the identity of said journalist to be certain.
I didn't mean the witness had vanished, just this information - which I'd think anyone would want to get to the bottom of.....slowly bits of information withheld before are coming out...but it seems to me lots are still not known or I can't locate via internet search. As I reported before, the neighbors to the brothers had reported that 24 hours after the shooting when the brothers had been identified by name as the shooters NO POLICE had yet come to search their flat. If true, it is amazing. The reported blue eyes is another. The six or seven persons related [in unknown ways] to the three shooters arrested have all been released now as innocent; yet we're told that six members of the cell are still at large...and one has gone to Syria. It could be just that the dust hasn't settled...or it could be someone is blowing smoke in our eyes. [There are many more loose ends and pieces of the puzzle that don't seem to fit at all...]
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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Peter Lemkin Wrote:David Guyatt Wrote:Peter Lemkin Wrote:This report that one of the shooters had blue eyes seems to have vanished.....it would prove a false-flag attack. Anyone know who reported this - which witness survivor?
Post 154 above. Just to emphasise the point, it was a Charlie hedbo journalist who said this in a TV interview. One imagines that she had no reason to say this other than reciting what she saw. But we need to establish the identity of said journalist to be certain.
I didn't mean the witness had vanished, just this information - which I'd think anyone would want to get to the bottom of.....slowly bits of information withheld before are coming out...but it seems to me lots are still not known or I can't locate via internet search. As I reported before, the neighbors to the brothers had reported that 24 hours after the shooting when the brothers had been identified by name as the shooters NO POLICE had yet come to search their flat. If true, it is amazing. The reported blue eyes is another. The six or seven persons related [in unknown ways] to the three shooters arrested have all been released now as innocent; yet we're told that six members of the cell are still at large...and one has gone to Syria. It could be just that the dust hasn't settled...or it could be someone is blowing smoke in our eyes. [There are many more loose ends and pieces of the puzzle that don't seem to fit at all...]
Nor did I, hence the reference to "post 154 above."
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge. Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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There has also been an arrest in Bulgaria of some one linked to the brothers. However this was on January 1 or 2 and there is some sort of child custody thing connected to it as well. He was passing through Bulgaria from France on his way to Turkeyand presumably then Syria.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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This is the Wiki version - thus the very much official version where any questioning of the official version or alternative ideas/theories/motives/etc. are not allowed. I post it because even with that caveat it contains some interesting features that may or may not be true - though many may well be. It contains a few elements of the official version I'd not seen before...
Saïd and Chérif Kouachi[edit][TABLE="class: infobox biography vcard, width: 22"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: center"]Saïd Kouachi[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"] Saïd Kouachi
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Born[/TH]
[TD]Saïd Kouachi
7 September 1980
Paris, France[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Died[/TH]
[TD]9 January 2015 (aged 34)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Cause of death
[/TH]
[TD] Gunshot wound[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Nationality[/TH]
[TD="class: category"]French[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Motive[/TH]
[TD] Jihadism[SUP] [10][/SUP][SUP] [11][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: center"]Killings[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Date[/TH]
[TD]79 January 2015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Location(s)[/TH]
[TD] Charlie Hebdo offices[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Target(s)[/TH]
[TD] Charlie Hebdo staff[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Killed[/TH]
[TD]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Injured[/TH]
[TD]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Weapon(s)[/TH]
[TD] AK-47[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: infobox biography vcard, width: 22"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: center"]Chérif Kouachi[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"] Chérif Kouachi
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Born[/TH]
[TD]Chérif Kouachi
29 November 1982
Paris, France[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Died[/TH]
[TD]9 January 2015 (aged 32)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Cause of death
[/TH]
[TD] Gunshot wound[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Nationality[/TH]
[TD="class: category"]French[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Motive[/TH]
[TD] Jihadism[SUP] [10][/SUP][SUP] [11][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2, align: center"]Killings[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Date[/TH]
[TD]79 January 2015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Location(s)[/TH]
[TD] Charlie Hebdo offices[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Target(s)[/TH]
[TD] Charlie Hebdo staff[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Killed[/TH]
[TD]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Injured[/TH]
[TD]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Weapon(s)[/TH]
[TD] AK-47[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
French police identified Saïd Kouachi (French pronunciation: ​[sa.id kwa.ʃi]; 7 September 1980 9 January 2015) and Chérif Kouachi ([ʃe.Êif]; 29 November 1982 9 January 2015) as the main suspects of being the masked gunmen.[SUP][127][/SUP][SUP][128][/SUP] The two Muslim Franco-Algerian[SUP][127][/SUP][SUP][129][/SUP] French nationals,[SUP][130][/SUP][SUP][131][/SUP][SUP][132][/SUP] both fromGennevilliers, were aged 34 and 32 respectively.[SUP][127][/SUP][SUP][129][/SUP][SUP][133][/SUP][SUP][134][/SUP] Their parents were Algerian immigrants to France.[SUP][127][/SUP] The brothers were orphaned at a young age, and Chérif was raised in foster care in Rennes before he joined his brother in Paris.[SUP][133][/SUP]
Chérif, also known as Abu Issen, was part of the "Buttes-Chaumont network" (fr) (named after the Parc des Buttes Chaumont where they met and performed military-style training exercises) that helped send would-be jihadists to fight for al-Qaeda in Iraq after the 2003 invasion.[SUP][135][/SUP][SUP][136][/SUP] He was arrested at age 22 in January 2005 when he and another man were about to leave for Bashar al-Assad's Syria at the time a gateway for jihadists wishing to fight U.S. troops in Iraq.[SUP][137][/SUP] He went to Fleury-Mérogis Prison - Amedy Coulibaly met him in this prison.[SUP][138][/SUP] In prison together Kouachi and Coulibaly found a mentor, Djamel Beghal, who had been sentenced to 10 years in prison in France in 2001 for his part in a plot to bomb the United States embassy in Paris.[SUP][137][/SUP] Beghal had once been a regular worshipper at Finsbury Park mosque in London and a disciple of the radical preachers Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada.
On leaving prison Chérif Kouachi married and got a fish counter job on the outskirts of Paris. He became a student of Farid Benyettou, a radical Muslim preacher at the Addawa Mosque in the 19th arrondissement of Paris. Kouachi wanted to attack Jewish targets in France, but Benyettou told him that France, unlike Iraq, was not "a land of jihad".[SUP][139][/SUP]
In 2008, Chérif was convicted of terrorism and sentenced to three years in prison, with 18 months suspended, for having assisted in sending fighters to militantIslamist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's group in Iraq, and for being part of a group that solicited young French Muslims to fight with Zarqawi, the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq.[SUP][127][/SUP][SUP][134][/SUP][SUP][140][/SUP] He said outrage at the torture of inmates of the U.S. prison at Abu Ghraib inspired him to help Iraq's insurgency.[SUP][141][/SUP][SUP][142][/SUP]
French judicial documents said Amedy Coulibaly and Chérif Kouachi traveled with their wives in 2010 to central France to visit Djamel Beghal. In a 2010 police interview, Coulibaly identified Chérif as a friend he had met in prison and said they saw each other frequently.[SUP][143][/SUP] In 2010, the Kouachi brothers were named in connection with a plot to break out from jail another Islamist, Smaïn Aït Ali Belkacem. They were not prosecuted due to a lack of evidence. Belkacem was one of those responsible for the 1995 Paris Métro and RER bombings that killed eight people.[SUP][137][/SUP][SUP][144][/SUP]
From 2009 to 2010, Saïd Kouachi visited Yemen on a student visa to study at the San'a Institute for the Arabic Language. There, according to a Yemeni reporter who interviewed Saïd, he met and befriended Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the perpetrator of the attempted bombing of Northwest Airlines Flight 253 later in 2009. The two shared an apartment for "one or two weeks".[SUP][145][/SUP][SUP][146][/SUP]
In 2011, Saïd returned to the country for a number of months and trained with al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula militants.[SUP][147][/SUP] According to a senior Yemeni intelligence source, he met al Qaeda preacher Anwar al-Awlaki in the southern province of Shabwa.[SUP][148][/SUP] Chérif Kouachi told BFMTV that he had been funded by a network loyal to Anwar al-Awlaki, who was killed by a drone strike in 2011 in Yemen.[SUP][149][/SUP] According to U.S. officials, the U.S. provided France with intelligence in 2011 showing the brothers received training in Yemen. French authorities subsequently began monitoring them, but this surveillance of Saïd and Chérif Kouachi came to an end in the spring of 2014.[SUP][150][/SUP] In the time preceding the Charlie Hebdo attacks Saïd had been living with his wife and small children in a block of flats inReims and neighbours had described him as solitary.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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