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Did Captain Westbrook Watch Tippit's Murder?
#21
excerpts from handwritten statement of Laura Kittrell

"the name of Murray Chotiner I inadvertently noted down in the space of "former employers" of the man I remembered as Oswald....it was entirely possible that the man I remembered as Oswald was not even acquainted with Mr. Chotiner."

"A. A stranger, later believed to me to be Oswald, had taken occasion to mention to me at my desk the name Murray Chotiner...B. A few days later, a person whose name I remember to be Oswald , was sent to me...He turned out to be the stranger I have already mentioned..."

"At a subsequent interview, a young fellow of German descent, who may or may not have been Oswald, came to my desk...Incidentally, I am not as sure as it would seem from the items at the beginning of the paragraph, that this man was Oswald." (This is the "Teamster Fellow")


She also claims that she saw Marina Oswald at the TWC "talking with her hands as if she were deaf," blonde, and also wearing the clothing of a Seventh Day Adventist.


She never at any time said that there were two Oswalds. She never said at any time that the "Teamster fellow" (who was similar in appearance to Oswald) used Oswald's name.. In fact she says that the "Teamster fellow" was Larry Crafard.

[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=6873&stc=1]

The FBI investigated her information reported early:

"Dallas FBI Office...on November 23, 1963, Mr. Frank Cooney, Counselor, Texas Employment Commission, called to inform he had received information from Miss Laura Kittrell, a fellow employee, that she had interviewed a person on Wednesday, November 20, 1963, who had professed to have a subversive background. She had reported the matter as having a possible connection with Lee Harvey Oswald. Inquiry into the matter on November 23, 1963, resulted in the identification and an interview with the person November 23, 1963, resulted in the identification and an interview with the person Ms. Kittrell had in mind. No connection of any nature whatsoever with Oswald was disclosed by this inquiry."

She does have some interesting information: About the TSBD: "in past years, when I had been sending them applicants, I had sent then, anyone who was not a 100% red-blooded, true-blue, American, I would have heard about it, plenty! The people who used to, then, own the Depository, the Ross Carleton family (who sold it a year or so before the assassination) were leading lights in the Public Affairs Luncheon Club, one of those Dallas vigilante groups a little to the right of the John Birch Society."

And this gem: The second point Kittrell said she made to Golz In her note was that the Dallas police came to the Texas Theater on November 22, 1963, In the morning, not the afternoon, "and they were apparently called." She said: "They came
Into the empy theater, It was not opened yet, and the Janitor told me they wore such a hindrance he could hardly get the cleaning done." She said the Janitor spoke as If there were several policeman. She said she Interviewed the Janitor at the Texas Employment Commission In 1976 and noticed that his records Indicated he had retired from his Job at the Texas Theatre. That's how they got to talking about the Kennedy assassination, she said. She said the Janitor told here that he cleaned up the theater every morning and worked until about lunch time at noon. That's how he said he knew it was the morning when the Dallas police come. "They didn't say what they wanted," he told Kittrell, "didn't say a word to me. Just went around opening doors and looking all over the place." Kittroll said she didn't have the name of the janitor but suggests questioning those who work around the Texas Theatre. "They must know of him, since he worked there so long," she said. She believes she talked to the Janitor sometime In 1976.



Attached Files
.jpg   Photo_hsca_mugbook_025_lcrafard.jpg (Size: 49.97 KB / Downloads: 28)
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)

James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."

Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."

Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
Reply
#22
Scheim says Crafard was missing his front teeth at the time and that it would have been instantly noticed by anyone who interacted with him.



Miss Kittrell clearly speaks as if the man represented himself as Oswald.



Crafard never lived in New Orleans. The second Oswald said he declined getting into the Teamsters in New Orleans.



.
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#23
The reports and evidence related to what occurs at 10th and Patton is horribly convoluted. What we do know is that Westbrook's and Croy's whereabouts during this time are left unknown.
We do know that there was no wallet left in the street after Tippit was removed, and that Westbrook speaks to Hosty and Barrett about ID in the wallet he is holding for both Hidell and Oswald.

John, as he does, takes the available evidence and context and fashions a theory to explain the evidence (or lack thereof) as it related to the H&L understanding. This scene playing a different way does not diminish all the H&L evidence already illuminated by his work... yet if it DID play that way... a more complete understanding of the conspiracy is worth considering.

The Westbrook wallet disappears. Yet the DPD shows there are 2 wallets in evidence... both from Irving. I have searched the DPD archive for another wallet... the one found by Westbrook or the wallet found in the back of the police car and neither appears to be in evidence. Alos looked for "W" http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/18/1825-065.gif no "Wallets" listed. The Brown billfold listed below is alos item #114 on the inventory sheets. Does anyone have anything that shows the wallet on Oswald in the car was ever entered into evidence?

The only thing I can find is this note signed by Hosty receiving a billfold with cards and pictures "taken from Oswald on 11/22" yet there is no report of this ever being cehcked in on a CSSS form used for such a thing.
While we have pictures of the billfold and contents http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...splay.html this only seems to occur on 11/27 after the DPD takes the photos of the hundreds of items RETURNED from the FBI.

If anyone has something to connect this wallet with the one taken from Oswald... please post
Thanks

[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=6875&stc=1] [Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=6876&stc=1]


Let's also please not forget the questioning of John Pic.

When shown the LIFE spread of photos from Oswald's life he correctly picks Harvey from Lee in every situation.

While Harvey is in New Orleans there is ample proof of Lee in Dallas with Ruby.

What is especially hard about H&L is that while we can only talk about one thing at a time, there is this impression that the one thing becomes the ONLY thing. When you realize that the FBI's "evidence" is pure junk and only illustrates the conspiracy, there is lilttle left but speculation to fill in the holes and keep banging away at it.

Not every activity was either H or L as we all agree that others were using the Oswald name and leaving incriminating evidence... a few looked very similar to Oswald as well. All we ask is that this, like each and every other straw is compiled and bundled to change one weak idea into a strong bundle of assumptions and facts which fit the MO.

[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=6874&stc=1]


Attached Files
.jpg   63-12-03 Oswald and Ruby homosexual lovers Dallas T-1 Summer 1963 before Mexico - Ruby gets Lee.jpg (Size: 132.57 KB / Downloads: 21)
.gif   Oswald billfolds DPD 1845-003.gif (Size: 23.33 KB / Downloads: 21)
.gif   2370-001.gif (Size: 32.47 KB / Downloads: 21)
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.....
R. Hunter
Reply
#24
Drew Phipps Wrote:She never at any time said that there were two Oswalds.

Did you expect her to say "There were two Oswalds?" Only a few of us are brave or foolish enough to say that.

But she apparently did tell the HSCA that someone was impersonating Oswald at her office, which is the way a sane person might say, "There were two Oswalds." Here is a clearer copy of the HSCA interview summary, with my highlighting.

[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=6877&stc=1]

It even describes the differences between the Two Oswalds. Russian-speaking Harvey was quiet, withdrawn, proper. American-born Lee was loud, inclined.. uh... to contract social diseases, apparently a serious drinker. Look at her descriptions. If that isn't describing the Terrible Twosome, what is good enough for you?

Laura Kittrell, by the way, was the daughter of Bill Kittrell, former secretary of the Texas Democratic Party. Her recollection of the Murray Chotiner references deserves an article of its own. From Harvey and Lee, p. 717:


NOTE: Attorney Murray Chotiner was virtually unknown outside of California in
1963. On October 7, 1955 Lee Harvey Oswald delivered a note to Warren Easton High
School that was found in Oswald's school file after the assassination. The note read,
"Becaus (sic) we are moving to San Diego in the middle of this month Lee must quit school
now. Also, please send by him any papers such as his birth certificate that you may have.
Thank you. Sincirely (sic) ..... Mrs. M. Oswald. "42 If Harvey Oswald moved to Califor*-
nia in 1955, it could explain how he knew about Chotiner.




Attached Files
.jpg   Kittrell_HSCA.jpg (Size: 95.83 KB / Downloads: 20)
HarveyandLee.net

Chief Justice Earl Warren: "Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security." – 1964
CIA accountant James B. Wilcott: Oswald received "a full-time salary for agent work for doing CIA operational work." – 1978
HSCA counsel Robert Tanenbaum: “Lee Harvey Oswald was a contract employee of the CIA and the FBI.” – 1996
Reply
#25
Albert Doyle Wrote:Miss Kittrell clearly speaks as if the man represented himself as Oswald.

No, she does not.
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)

James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."

Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."

Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
Reply
#26
Drew Phipps Wrote:
Albert Doyle Wrote:Miss Kittrell clearly speaks as if the man represented himself as Oswald.

No, she does not.

Excuse me????

Reread the description of the HSCA interview: "She said that although she suspected the [second] fellow might not have been Oswald at the time, she wasn't sure and she didn't want to call him a liar and create a scene without being sure."
HarveyandLee.net

Chief Justice Earl Warren: "Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security." – 1964
CIA accountant James B. Wilcott: Oswald received "a full-time salary for agent work for doing CIA operational work." – 1978
HSCA counsel Robert Tanenbaum: “Lee Harvey Oswald was a contract employee of the CIA and the FBI.” – 1996
Reply
#27
Jim Hargrove Wrote:
Drew Phipps Wrote:
Albert Doyle Wrote:Miss Kittrell clearly speaks as if the man represented himself as Oswald.

No, she does not.

Excuse me????

Reread the description of the HSCA interview: "She said that although she suspected the [second] fellow might not have been Oswald at the time, she wasn't sure and she didn't want to call him a liar and create a scene without being sure."

You aint gonna learn what you dont wanna know...

and so many simply do not want to know.

Really don't know how to make this any more direct. These two men are not the same person yet both were considered Lee Harvey Oswald.
The man on the right, the last photo we know of is in the top right corner wearing a jacket amazingly similar to the one Westbrook found.

In 1959 Major William P. Gorsky was the Assistant Provost Marshall at the
Marine Corps Air Station (the jet base) at El Toro.
According to Major Gorsky's files, Lee Harvey Oswald was discharged from the Marine base in March 1959.
(Harvey Oswald was discharged in Sept 1959)

[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=6878&stc=1]


Attached Files
.jpg   Oswald - Harvey square shoulders - LEE dropped shoulders.jpg (Size: 252.48 KB / Downloads: 20)
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.....
R. Hunter
Reply
#28
Don't get me wrong. John Armstrong is an amazing researcher who has done an incredible job documenting these inconsistencies in Oswald's history and background. I just don't agree with his conclusion: That there are two separate and distinct Oswalds, and had been for years.


I believe what John has done is to uncover the legend created for Oswald when he "defected". Whether Oswald was a willing participant in a spy game or not, whether he was a dangle or a defector, there would damn fine reasons for altering his background to make Russian spies and/or counter-intelligence either more wary or less wary of him, and the disinformation in the alternate history would help Angleton and crew identify and catch Soviet moles.


The problem with John's conclusion is that it becomes a cul-de-sac for investigation, ultimately yielding no valuable conclusion as to who was impersonating Oswald, and why; and we know from time to time it did happen. The fact that the impostor knew a great deal about Oswald should help us identify them; the more the impostor knows, the smaller a circle of people it could be. If someone was impersonating Oswald in preparation for the assassination, that should lead us directly to the conspirators - but it won't, if we just conclude that there were two of them, and then construct an elaborate scenario around that conclusion.
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)

James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."

Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."

Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
Reply
#29
Drew Phipps Wrote:The problem with John's conclusion is that it becomes a cul-de-sac for investigation, ultimately yielding no valuable conclusion as to who was impersonating Oswald, and why; and we know from time to time it did happen. The fact that the impostor knew a great deal about Oswald should help us identify them; the more the impostor knows, the smaller a circle of people it could be. If someone was impersonating Oswald in preparation for the assassination, that should lead us directly to the conspirators - but it won't, if we just conclude that there were two of them, and then construct an elaborate scenario around that conclusion.

But the Terrible Twosome do lead directly to the conspirators! Mata Hari had a double. Two of Castro's top intelligence agents were twins. Allen Dulles wrote fondly about the use of doubles in spycraft. The Two Oswalds throughout a four or five year period were either spying or circulating among intelligence assets. "The Oswald Project," as CIA's Wilcott referred to it, pointed directly at American intelligence. That was surely the real state secret of the Kennedy assassination.

How many times does someone have to be impersonated before you begin to consider alternative explanations? Laura Kittrell described the similarities and differences of the two Oswalds rather well. These personality traits can be traced from several incidents in elementary school, through the Marine Corps, and right up to Kittrell's encounter with both of them in 1963.

C'est la vie... et la mort!
HarveyandLee.net

Chief Justice Earl Warren: "Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security." – 1964
CIA accountant James B. Wilcott: Oswald received "a full-time salary for agent work for doing CIA operational work." – 1978
HSCA counsel Robert Tanenbaum: “Lee Harvey Oswald was a contract employee of the CIA and the FBI.” – 1996
Reply
#30
The people running such a program were well versed in intelligence tricks. It wouldn't be beyond their usual tactics to plant a few non-Armstrong doubles in order to throw off the scent or blame any breaches on these other impersonators. Valenti and Parker don't think broadly enough. These extra doubles would allow intel more options in case they got in a bind. They might even try to flip the whole thing around and say the Russians were behind it if it somehow got exposed.
Reply


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