Two Dallas cops were involved in the pre-arranged murder of J.D. Tippit ....

[Albert Doyle]

Why weren't there more witnesses to Lee milling about and being passed a gun by Ruby in front of the Depository?


There's an interesting connection between Whaley saying Harvey was calm and wasn't in a hurry and Baker saying the same of Harvey in the lunch room. Both encounters drew remarks about the same person showing remarkable and memorable calmness. It would make sense since all he was doing during the shooting was sitting in the lunch room having lunch. It is also possible he was mind-controlled.



Now that Armstrong places both Harvey & Lee in the Depository, it creates a higher possibility that the discrepancy in Baker's reporting of the lunch room event is due to Baker and Truly witnessing both Oswalds in the Depository.



The 38 potentially passed off to Westbrook by Lee at the Tippit murder scene would have been an automatic.


Armstrong has assembled what may very well be case-cracking information.

[Jim Hargrove]

Why weren't there more witnesses to Lee milling about and being passed a gun by Ruby in front of the Depository?

Victoria Adams, who worked in the TSBD, told the WC that she observed a man standing on the corner of Houston and Elm a few minutes after the assassination who may have been Jack Ruby. Across the street Mrs. Louis Velez, and two co-workers, saw Ruby walking up and down the street near the TSBD. When LEE Oswald came out of the building, they saw Ruby give a pistol to him. The women knew Oswald, who ate with them at a nearby restaurant, and both were acquainted with Jack Ruby. Mrs. Velez told her story of Ruby giving Oswald a pistol to her mother (Mrs. Evelyn Harris), who was interviewed by FBI agent Manning on 11/30/63. Neither Mrs. Velez nor her co-workers were interviewed by the DPD or FBI and given the opportunity to confirm or deny their story. If their story is true, then Ruby was deeply involved in the assassination. Ruby knew and associated with LEE Oswald in the summer of 1963, while HARVEY and Marina were living in New Orleans.[SUP]1[/SUP]

There's an interesting connection between Whaley saying Harvey was calm and wasn't in a hurry and Baker saying the same of Harvey in the lunch room. Both encounters drew remarks about the same person showing remarkable and memorable calmness. It would make sense since all he was doing during the shooting was sitting in the lunch room having lunch. It is also possible he was mind-controlled.

Now that Armstrong places both Harvey & Lee in the Depository, it creates a higher possibility that the discrepancy in Baker's reporting of the lunch room event is due to Baker and Truly witnessing both Oswalds in the Depository.

John always believed that both Harvey and Lee were in or by the TSBD during the shooting, but your scenario involving Baker and Truly never occurred to him until I read him one of your posts while talking on the phone. He thought your take was definitely possible, but I don't think he knows how to research it any further. Any ideas?

The 38 potentially passed off to Westbrook by Lee at the Tippit murder scene would have been an automatic.

After talking with witness Ted Callaway Patrolman H.W. Summers reported that he had an "eyeball witness to the getaway man." The suspect was described as having black wavy hair, wearing an Eisenhower jacket of light color, with dark trousers and a white shirt. He was "apparently armed with a .32, dark finish, automatic pistol," which he had in his right hand. However, if an automatic pistol was used to kill Tippit, three of the spent shell casings would have been ejected at the point where Oswald began shooting Tippit and would have landed on 10th St. (near the passenger side of Tippit's squad car). After Oswald shot Tippit in the head, at point blank range, the last shell casing would have been ejected onto the pavement on 10th St., which it was not. Barbara and Virginia Davis watched Oswald as he crossed in front of their house and crossed their lawn, using his right hand to shake empty shells from an open revolver into his left hand. Two shell casings were recovered near a bush in the Davis' side yard on 10th St., about 50-60 ft. from the front of Tippit's squad car where the shots were fired.[SUP]2

[/SUP]

Armstrong has assembled what may very well be case-cracking information.

I think so too. Thanks.

NOTES 1,2: Quoted from "November 22, 1963" at HarveyandLee.net

[Drew Phipps]

OK, so the show was "The Lost JFK Tapes: the Assassination." It was a 2 hour show that aired on the National Geographic Channel last week. I have it recorded on my DVR, and I understand that I could transfer it to a DVD and extract clips or stills from it with the right gear and know how, but I'm not sure I have either.

We know that the mass media, in their haste to get a story first, often makes factual mistakes. That said, a story with video often reveals details inconsistent with the way history eventually is written. Here is a partial list of the strangeness.

At 42 minutes in, there is a story about, and a video clip of, a "24 year old" pudgy man wearing a suit and glasses who was "arrested inside the TSBD." He claimed to have gone into the building "to use the telephone." The story sounds like the Eugene Brading story (albeit in the wrong building) but the guy looks more like Richard Cain.

At 44 minutes in, there is the clip of a plainclothes officer (presumably Westbrook) and a uniformed officer (?) handling the "Tippet wallet" except in this clip, the uniform also (as is remarked on by the announcer and) clearly does have in his hands a revolver. The news caster says this is the gun used to kill Tippet. Now, the problem with that is that Oswald still had a revolver in hand at the Theater (allegedly). The second problem is the iron sight on the revolver in the clip looks triangular, not rounded (as the NARA revolver is), and the barrel seems a bit longer, though I haven't digitally measured the image.

Later a clip shows DPD forensics guy Lt. Day powdering the rifle for prints INSIDE the TSBD among the boxes. It was claimed officially that he dusted the gun for prints back in his office at the station (IIRC)

There may be more, I'm going to have to watch it again with a pad of paper and the pause button handy.

[Albert Doyle]

Victoria Adams, who worked in the TSBD, told the WC that she observed a man standing on the corner of Houston and Elm a few minutes after the assassination who may have been Jack Ruby. Across the street Mrs. Louis Velez, and two co-workers, saw Ruby walking up and down the street near the TSBD. When LEE Oswald came out of the building, they saw Ruby give a pistol to him. The women knew Oswald, who ate with them at a nearby restaurant, and both were acquainted with Jack Ruby. Mrs. Velez told her story of Ruby giving Oswald a pistol to her mother (Mrs. Evelyn Harris), who was interviewed by FBI agent Manning on 11/30/63. Neither Mrs. Velez nor her co-workers were interviewed by the DPD or FBI and given the opportunity to confirm or deny their story. If their story is true, then Ruby was deeply involved in the assassination. Ruby knew and associated with LEE Oswald in the summer of 1963, while HARVEY and Marina were living in New Orleans.[SUP]1 [/SUP]

[SUP]



Didn't mean to imply doubt. We all know that one Oswald left the Depository and was witnessed by Roger Craig getting into a station wagon. We need to establish judicial license on this and just be able to refer to it as an accepted fact for expediency in the CT world. Otherwise there's too much detailed explaining involved that gums up the works. We should also establish judicial license that Craig was 'Hit List' murdered because of his dangerous witnessing of a CIA double and his refusal to back down.

This issue is interesting because Frazier's Oswald left the rear of the Depository and walked down the sidewalk on Houston and crossed Elm. I assume Frazier is talking about Harvey who then got on the set-up bus. I'll leave it to others with better attention spans for detail to determine if Frazier should have seen Lee also exit the front. If he did it would explain a lot of things. We also have to add the condition of FBI and DPD not seeking witnesses and consider how that filter accounted for the lack of witnesses for this.


[/SUP]

John always believed that both Harvey and Lee were in or by the TSBD during the shooting, but your scenario involving Baker and Truly never occurred to him until I read him one of your posts while talking on the phone. He thought your take was definitely possible, but I don't think he knows how to research it any further. Any ideas?

I think Jim D has some explaining to do. This latest Armstrong offering has crossed a line where Jim D has to account for his open endorsement of ROKC. That crank Australian site openly denies the Armstrong theory. Jim has made the mistake of thinking Baker's omission of the lunch room encounter is explained by the ROKC version. This latest offering by Armstrong shows there could be a very plausible other reason for Baker's waffling with the lunch room encounter other than the Murphy theory. I watch Jim D's posts. He stays well clear of ever committing on this. In my opinion this latest offering from Armstrong now forces people to explain themselves.

I have since realized that my theory that Baker and Truly met Harvey in the lunch room and Lee on the 4th floor landing is mitigated by Miss Garner. If Lee was on the 4th floor landing then why didn't Miss Garner see him? Maybe he was on the 3rd floor landing? As I have posted before, maybe the lack of mention that Oswald was in the lunch room by Baker was simply because they found him sitting and realized he was too far from the 6th floor and too relaxed to have shot the president from 4 floors above 90 seconds earlier. Of course people prefer lengthy, contorted, fantastic explanations like the Murphy theory, but the truth could be as simple as Baker not wanting to exonerate Oswald with the obvious.


In any case Armstrong's offering here now firmly places both Oswald's in the Depository. It places Lee just a few steps from Harvey's position in the lunch room. You have to imagine any Lee and Harvey sightings in the Depository were the first priority of the cover-up since they would automatically expose the bizarre spook core of the plot that could only come from an Intel source. These witnessings would be the first to disappear and Baker's omission of the event from reports would be easily explained, considering Intel's imperative. ROKC stupidly misses the fact that many of the discrepancies they cite are all easily explained by what Armstrong describes here. Intel killed Ralph Yates because he too refused to back down from this dangerous witnessing. Nice to know our benevolent democracy government is staffed by Gestapo killers. How quaint.

After talking with witness Ted Callaway Patrolman H.W. Summers reported that he had an "eyeball witness to the getaway man." The suspect was described as having black wavy hair, wearing an Eisenhower jacket of light color, with dark trousers and a white shirt. He was "apparently armed with a .32, dark finish, automatic pistol," which he had in his right hand. However, if an automatic pistol was used to kill Tippit, three of the spent shell casings would have been ejected at the point where Oswald began shooting Tippit and would have landed on 10th St. (near the passenger side of Tippit's squad car). After Oswald shot Tippit in the head, at point blank range, the last shell casing would have been ejected onto the pavement on 10th St., which it was not. Barbara and Virginia Davis watched Oswald as he crossed in front of their house and crossed their lawn, using his right hand to shake empty shells from an open revolver into his left hand. Two shell casings were recovered near a bush in the Davis' side yard on 10th St., about 50-60 ft. from the front of Tippit's squad car where the shots were fired.[SUP]2 [/SUP]

[SUP]



Thanks for this. It appears it was a revolver. I assume Harvey had a separate revolver and that the evidence had to be tampered with to frame him for Tippit's murder.


While it might be speculation, Armstrong's Westbrook/Croy theory is a very educated guess that fits. Westbrook and Croy's stories are highly fishy and the down-time they are explaining away with unbelievable excuses fits their presence and participation at the Tippit murder scene and matches police sightings that never had any names.


The torn dollar bill is prima facie evidence of a covert operation. Its concealment is even stronger evidence of same. The torn bill should be pushed because it hits at visceral level that will overcome the usual public resistance. It could be possible Lee had the other half of the torn dollar bill.


Armstrong is the first class detective work that was never done in this case because those whom the public trusted to do that detective work were part of the conspiracy and coup. America turns out to be quite a different place than how it describes itself. They even kill women like Mary Pinchot Meyer (that Jim D also denies).



.




[/SUP]

[Jim Hargrove]

OK, so the show was "The Lost JFK Tapes: the Assassination." It was a 2 hour show that aired on the National Geographic Channel last week. I have it recorded on my DVR, and I understand that I could transfer it to a DVD and extract clips or stills from it with the right gear and know how, but I'm not sure I have either.

We know that the mass media, in their haste to get a story first, often makes factual mistakes That said, a story with video often reveals details inconsistent with the way history eventually is written. Here is a partial list of the strangeness.

At 42 minutes in, there is a story about, and a video clip of, a "24 year old" pudgy man wearing a suit and glasses who was "arrested inside the TSBD." He claimed to have gone into the building "to use the telephone." The story sounds like the Eugene Brading story (albeit in the wrong building) but the guy looks more like Richard Cain.

At 44 minutes in, there is the clip of a plainclothes officer (presumably Westbrook) and a uniformed officer (?) handling the "Tippet wallet" except in this clip, the uniform also (as is remarked on by the announcer and) clearly does have in his hands a revolver. The news caster says this is the gun used to kill Tippet. Now, the problem with that is that Oswald still had a revolver in hand at the Theater (allegedly). The second problem is the iron sight on the revolver in the clip looks triangular, not rounded (as the NARA revolver is), and the barrel seems a bit longer, though I haven't digitally measured the image.

Later a clip shows DPD forensics guy Lt. Day powdering the rifle for prints INSIDE the TSBD among the boxes. It was claimed officially that he dusted the gun for prints back in his office at the station (IIRC)

There may be more, I'm going to have to watch it again with a pad of paper and the pause button handy.

MEGATHANKS!! That was enough info to find it. I've made a short vidcap of the scene in .mp4 and .ogv formats. Hopefully, the .mp4 file will display here.

[video]http://harveyandlee.net/Temp/Revolver.mp4[/video]

Looks like a revolver to me, and this must be Ron Reiland footage from a different angle than I've seen before. I've got this video in a temp file on my website, and I probably shouldn't leave it there forever, so interested persons should have a look ASAP.

[Jim Hargrove]

I just sent the clip to John and he made the following comments.

He said it obviously wasn't the pistol initialed by Dallas Police as the Tippit Murder weapon because the barrel is shorter.


Above is the arrest revolver.


Above is the revolver from the footage Drew saw, which obviously has a longer barrel and a site with a different shape.

It wasn't Tippit's gun, because it was taken with his body to Methodist Hospital.

When this shot was taken, Harvey Oswald was sitting in the Texas Theater, with the revolver he was undoubtedly told to bring there.

So whose pistol was it?

[Albert Doyle]

Maybe it's the drop pistol from the bus and they hadn't gotten the game plan straight at that time.

[Drew Phipps]

I wonder if Bob P. could identify that revolver from the shape of the sight and the length of the barrel... I saw a Colt Trooper .38 Special that looked similar, and a Colt Police .38 Special, but I have no idea when those guns were made.

[Albert Doyle]

Once you realize several witnesses probably got a good look at cops who were at the Tippit scene and not chasing the shooter you have to value their statements as persons who might not want to tell exactly what they saw in order to not get involved.


There's a disconnect here. Armstrong makes a clear case that Lee shot Tippit but then quotes witnesses who said it definitely wasn't Oswald.

[R.K. Locke]

The claim that Westbrook was a member of the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment appears to originate with Brian Castle, who posted briefly on this forum late last year. I can't find a single other source for this claim online. Bullshit?