JFK Assassination - The Names Who Planned It

[Scott Kaiser]

Here's an even better question for the intergalactically stupid, of the 636 times they tried to assassinate Fidel Castro who ordered it? Or, was it just planned by his assassins? SMH....

Sure Dulles knew, Helms, Phillips and Harvey knew of the Castro plots, and gave their [blessings] to kill Castro but who ordered the hit? Some of you can't figure it out, I know it's too hard a question.

[Scott Kaiser]

Would you like a perfect example? When Luis Posada went to Venezuela to plot the assassination of Fidel Castro who ordered Luis to go? And, who ordered the plot to assassinate Castro? Their plan was to fire at Castro with a high power rifle on a hill overlooking the area where Castro was going to speak, they had it all perfectly staked out, until some dumb-ass got caught on the ship by the secret police, or undercover police of Venezuela and said they were there to kill Castro, I mean how dumb is that? God! I'm beginning to believe what my father would say!

[Jim DiEugenio]

I agree with Peter and Albert, this is a nice, in depth report on Permindex in Italy.

In fact, its one of the best ones I have seen.

But to cross over from there to the JFK assassination on the basis of Clay Shaw's participation in Permindex is not really justified.

I myself was guilty of doing that at one time, but IMO, today we know much more about Clay Shaw so this should be looked upon as one part of his work for the CIA.

Just as his role in the New Orleans aspects of the JFK murder are another.

[Albert Doyle]

I'd have to go on record as saying the assassination was very complicated and some of these so-called false sponsors had stronger veins or threads of association than others and their involvement could have been distributed in such a way as to incriminate and involve all of them in order to incur compromise and also spread blame. So none of the foreign conspirators can really be said to get off the hook.

[Lauren Johnson]

My pov (cross posted):

As much as the East Coast Establishment was the diffuse center for the killing of JFK, we have to remember it was also ideologically and possibly much more tied to the former English Empire. It was indeed the Anglo-American Establishment that was the sponsoring source. I think it reasonable to view Nelson Rockefeller along with Allen Dulles as the keys to connecting the sponsoring class with the mechanics. Dulles headed up the ad hoc bureaucracy to plan the murder and, just as importantly. the cover up. Rockefeller with Dulles would be the perfect people to connect elite industrial and banking families with the CIA and the military.

I see the Cubans, the Mafia and the right wing Texans as false sponsors and a source of personnel for the hit and other jobs. After all, they could never have pulled off the cover-up and they were also essential in setting up the patsy with a credible legend.

LBJ? Hoover? No opinion, but very possibly they had been alerted. If not, they knew who was behind it within hours.

My sources: all of the you, BOR, Jim Douglass' JFK and the Unspeakable as well as Jim Di's Destiny Betrayed. Not much but I think I have a decent idea of the big picture.

[Scott Kaiser]

Establishment, Elite, sponsoring, everyone makes Kennedy's assassination sound like a football game.

[Phil Dagosto]

I think it reasonable to view Nelson Rockefeller along with Allen Dulles as the keys to connecting the sponsoring class with the mechanics. Dulles headed up the ad hoc bureaucracy to plan the murder and, just as importantly. the cover up. Rockefeller with Dulles would be the perfect people to connect elite industrial and banking families with the CIA and the military.

Yes, the Dulles-Rockefeller connection via Sullivan & Cromwell, Standard Oil and Freeport Sulphur sticks out like a sore thumb. As Fletcher Prouty liked to say the most important letter in the acronym CIA was the A, for Agency. They were not so much an agent for the President as they were for the wealthy, powerful interests outside of government that actually provided funding for some of their operations (e.g., William Pawley, the Luces and others). Time-Life getting control of the Z-film is a strong tell.

I see the Cubans, the Mafia and the right wing Texans as false sponsors and a source of personnel for the hit and other jobs. After all, they could never have pulled off the cover-up and they were also essential in setting up the patsy with a credible legend.

My personal opinion is that the Mob's only role was putting the arm on Ruby to kill Oswald after the initial plan to whack him after his "escape" from the TSBD failed.

LBJ? Hoover? No opinion, but very possibly they had been alerted. If not, they knew who was behind it within hours.

Of course they knew. Why else would they have initiated the manipulation of the physical evidence and the scrubbing of Oswald's school, work and military records within 24 hours of the assassination in order to merge the multiple assets using the LHO identity into the guy that was actually in custody. Both LBJ and Hoover had to suspect, if they weren't already aware, that Oswald was being set up by someone connected to US intelligence, after learning that the photos and voice recordings of "Oswald" at the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City did not correspond to the person arrested in Dallas. They sure couldn't have believed the story about Soviet/Cuban involvement that they used to sell the cover up. Why would the Soviets or Cubans want to create a link between a guy they hired to kill Kennedy and visits to their embassies?

[Jim Hargrove]

However, even Garrison did not think Shaw's role nor that of Permindex was central. Permindex and its larger umbrella organization, however, had direct connections with the CIA and other entities / persons who were more centrally involved.

It's intriguing to speculate, though, if in New Orleans during the summer of 1963, the CIA (through someone like Clay Shaw) might have handed a couple of the Oswald puppet strings over to the FBI (via someone like Guy Banister). This is the time when the plot against JFK and the sheep-dipping of the designated patsy began to unfold.


No less than Gerald Ford has informed posterity that Oswald "was on the FBI payroll at two hundred dollars a month starting in September 1962 . . ." But what if that date was actually quite a bit later, closer to August 1963? Could Ford possibly have misled us just a bit to take attention away from the CIA/FBI nexus near the New Orleans Trade Mart in in the summer of 1963?

[Jim Hargrove]

Of course they knew. Why else would they have initiated the manipulation of the physical evidence and the scrubbing of Oswald's school, work and military records within 24 hours of the assassination in order to merge the multiple assets using the LHO identity into the guy that was actually in custody. Both LBJ and Hoover had to suspect, if they weren't already aware, that Oswald was being set up by someone connected to US intelligence, after learning that the photos and voice recordings of "Oswald" at the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City did not correspond to the person arrested in Dallas. They sure couldn't have believed the story about Soviet/Cuban involvement that they used to sell the cover up. Why would the Soviets or Cubans want to create a link between a guy they hired to kill Kennedy and visits to their embassies?

Well said!

To me, among many other things, this suggests that Hoover had prior knowledge of the plot, and did not simply lead the cover-up after LBJ demanded it. The FBI appeared to be a well-oiled machine under J. Edgar, but the speed with which he swept reality under the rug within hours of the hit was simply breathtaking and unnatural. What do you think?

[Tom Scully]

..............
......reality under the rug within hours of the hit was simply breathtaking and unnatural. What do you think?

I think it is impossible to determine what is irrelevant coincidence vs. what is germaine, as in this example, and a further grave concern is not knowing what I don't know, and I work at knowing more than the average student of the JFK Assassination.:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Rec...98/98c.pdf
.pdf pg. 3:
A photograph of JOHN CAESAR GROSSI,
also known as JACK LESLIE BOWEN,
Federal Bureau of Investigation, Identificatiiii -
Number 3,96J,794, was obtained from Wheat Photo Studios, Bryan
Street at Peak, Dallas, Texas, on June 21, 1956, by SA iAT A.
PINESTON, the photograph hiiing been made in April, 1956.

On interview July 6, 1956, the following description of
JOHN CAESAR GROSSI
was obtained from observation and questioning:
......
also known as
Jack Leslie Bowen
........
...Wife Lucille RYDER BOWER (now pregnant).

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bbirth_year%3A1956-1957~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Alucille~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Aryder~

Glenn Lewis Bowen
Texas Birth Index
Name Glenn Lewis Bowen
Event Type Birth
Event Date 11 Oct 1956
Event Place Dallas, Texas
Gender Male
Father's Name Jack Leslie Bowen
Mother's Name Fleta Lucille Ryder http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi...d=29053767

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%22dixie%20may%22~%20%2Bsurname%3Aryder~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1951-1957~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Alucille~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Aryder~
Texas Birth Index
Name Dixie May Ryder
Event Type Birth
Event Date 10 Nov 1951
Event Place Dallas, Texas
Gender Female
Mother's Name Fleta Lucille Ryder

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Agypsie~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1941-1965~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Afleta~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Aryder~
Texas Birth Index
Name Gypsie Lucille Ryden
Event Type Birth
Event Date 17 Dec 1946
Event Place Dallas, Texas
Gender Female
Mother's Name Fleta Ryder

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi...d=29053767
.....She married Roy Lee Mantooth December 13, 1963, in Albany, Texas. He preceded her in death on March 10, 1979.
.....At time of death she was survived by one son, Glenn Lewis Mantooth.....

Oswald's alleged library card.:
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/m...1/med_res/




https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...h=mantooth

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimo...chmidt.htm
.......
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember talking to any newspaper reporters at any time the next day or the day after that about this whole story?
Mr. RYDER. Well, they were all over the place the next day---on Friday--Friday and Saturday.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you still take the position that you had nothing to do with the original story that came out and you never talked to the newspaper reporters prior to the time the story came out in The Dallas Times Herald?
Mr. RYDER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any idea where they got the story?

238

Mr. RYDER. I still don't know--I kind of felt like where they got it was over the radio---originally---I don't know. The CBS boys said that they got it off of the Associated Press wires, is how they got it, or over the AP.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, it is not the ordinary practice, of course, for the Commission to advise witnesses what kind of an investigation it has made in connection with this thing, at least, not until the report comes out, but I think you ought to know that as a result of the existence of this gun ticket and the story that you told the FBI and the Commission, the FBI has attempted to find every Oswald in the whole Dallas and Fort Worth area and the surrounding area and it has found many of them and it has questioned all of them, some of whom have moved out of Dallas and Fort Worth, as to whether or not they ever had any work done in that gunshop, and you should know that none of them ever did, and you should also know, and I think you probably do by now, that Lee Oswald could not have had any scope mounted on the rifle that he used to assassinate the President in your shop, and in fact, I don't think you claim you did mount that particular scope?
Mr. RYDER. That's right. We have claimed that it wasn't that one. On the Monday after, well, it was the Monday of the funeral of President Kennedy, that Mr. Horton came out and I thought at that time I had it cleared with him that I hadn't mounted the scope on the gun he used to assassinate the President.
Mr. LIEBELER. That you had not?
Mr. RYDER. That we had not.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you weren't able to remember Lee Harvey Oswald's face as being the face of the man who had previously been in that shop: isn't that right?
Mr. RYDER. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you couldn't associate any specific gun or any specific man with that particular work ticket; isn't that right?
Mr. RYDER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any possible suggestions as to where that work ticket could have come from if it appears, and it certainly does appear that no other Oswald came in there and there is no evidence of any sort to indicate that Lee Harvey Oswald ever had any other rifle than the one he used to assassinate the President, and he never brought that one in the sports shop?
Mr. RYDER. All I know is that we had the ticket laying on the workbench back there and I had written it up and completed the work on it and the gun had been picked up. Now, as to whether it was Lee Oswald, I couldn't positively identify him or if there was another one out there right now I could not identify anybody if they said they did bring it in.
Mr. LIEBELER. And to the best of your recollecttion, you wrote that gun ticket sometime in the early part of November; is that right?
Mr. RYDER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you are certain that you wrote it up before November 22?
Mr. RYDER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you are not able to associate that particular ticket with any particular gun in your own mind?
Mr. RYDER. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. I also recall that when I asked you questions about this before, you indicated that possibly we could fix the date on which this ticket had been written because you had written it with a pencil and you said you remembered you had gone to Dallas on that particular day, and that you used a pencil to get some materials from a wholesale shop. Of course, the FBI, as you now know, has gone and has found out every day that you ever went to Dallas to get gun materials and asked you if you could identify the time and the date by reviewing this list of materials that you got from the wholesale house in Dallas and you weren't able to associate it with any particular day you used a pencil.
Mr. RYDER. Right; he had 2 or 3 days there that he showed me some copies--actually, he gave he some dates that I came to town and signed and there were 2 or 3 days there in that period that I had. Signed with a pencil, and it could have been that some of those days I had a pencil laying handy and I just picked it up rather than taking my pen out of my shirt.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you be surprised if the Commission concluded, after this

239

investigation that the FBI conducted and the questioning that we have done, that there was never any man in there by the name of Oswald with any gun at all?
Mr. RYDER. Yeah--like I said--all I've got is that ticket with his name on it and the work being done.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, at this point I think we might as well conclude the deposition. The Commission will take under advisement Mr. Schmidt's request to have a polygraph examination administered to him, and I am advised by one of the U.S. attorneys here that one of the other reporters over at the newspaper does remember the conversation and we will take his deposition tomorrow. If you want to have a polygraph examination administered to you, after reflecting on this, or if you have anything further to say about the whole thing, contact Miss Stroud here at the U.S. attorneys office, if you want to.
Mr. RYDER. Okay. Is that all?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes; that's all. Thanks a lot, Mr. Ryder.

TESTIMONY OF HUNTER SCHMIDT, JR. ........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Eat...Later_life
.....Later life

Eatherly left the Air Force in 1947 as a major and recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross, and worked at an oil company in Houston, Texas where he became a sales manager for a Mobil gasoline station.[clarification needed] Consumed by guilt, he attempted suicide by drugs in a hotel in New Orleans, but he survived and was treated in Waco, Texas in a psychiatric hospital for soldiers. His mental condition slowly deteriorated.[citation needed]

Jerome Klinkowitz, in Pacific Skies: American Flyers in World War II, writes:

Shortly after leaving the Air Force in 1947, Eatherly took part in arrangements for a raid on Cuba by American adventurers hoping to overthrow the government; here the former weather pilot's responsibilities would involve a flight of bomb-laden P-38 Lightnings obtained as war surplus. The plot was uncovered, and Eatherly was arrested and prosecuted, serving time in jail for this offense.....

The Oregonian, December 14, 1957



1970.... Bowen/Grossi aka Roy Lee Mantooth...
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...5&tab=page

I accept that it was easy for Bowen / Grossi to obtain Mantooth's ID, but why use the ID of an ex-con?

The arrest record of Roy Lee Mantooth begins in 1940 when Bowen/Grossi was 13 years old.
I expect the Mantooth arrests in the 1960's were actually Bowen/Grossi impersonating Mantooth
(I could be wrong about some 1960's arrests)...

Mantooth's arrests, 1940 to 1948:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...4&tab=page
1949 to 1951:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...5&tab=page
1953 to 1957:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...6&tab=page
1957 to 1967:
[URL="https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=137474&search=mantooth#relPageId=67&tab=page"]https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=137474&search=mantooth#relPageId=67&tab=page

In 1970, the FBI seems not to understand that Bowen/Grossi, now aka Bolen, is described as paying child support by
Roy Lee Mantooth in the form of a stolen camper trailer. The point is that 7 years after the assassination, Bowen/Grossi was
still in contact with Dial Ryder's sister and her husband Roy Lee Mantooth.

[/URL]https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...6&tab=page[URL="https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=137474&search=mantooth#relPageId=67&tab=page"]
[/URL]


In response to the question asked in the OP, my hunch is that those most involved in making the assassinations of JFK and Oswald and the subsequent cover up happen, involved these people, and those in my "sig" below. Follow the money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_E._...ontroversy

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/O...958771.php
ON ECONOMICS: -- How Kennedy Assassination Affected Some Stock Prices
JONATHAN MARSHALL Published 4:00 am, Monday, November 18, 1996
.....................

Wedding Bells for Robert McNamara (washingtonpost.com)

www.washingtonpost.com › Print Edition › Style


The Washington Post


Sep 8, 2004 - McNamara will wed his Italian-born sweetheart, Diana Masieri Byfield, next week in a ceremony in Italy. This is the second marriage for both.
.....to Ernest Byfield, a former OSS officer and public relations executive.

Remembering Roger Ebert's Record of Integrity and Courage vs. Kupcinet's Towing the Line

Submitted by Tom Scully on Sat, 04/06/2013 - 15:52
Irv Kupcinet and Roger Ebert were columnists at the Chicago Sun-Times with overlapping careers of nearly 20 years. Ebert considered Kupcinet a close friend, despite this disconnect.:
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/kup...oid=881114 ( Kupcinet's conflicted "background": http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....opic=16754 )
Kup vs. JFK - Chronicle of a Columnist's Obsession - By Jim Kielty - Year In Review archives » December 24, 1992
In an essay on the Oliver Stone film JFK, published a month after his laudatory review in the Sun-Times, Roger Ebert wrote: "Never in my years as a newspaperman have I seen one subject pummeled so mercilessly and joylessly as this movie that questions the official wisdom on the assassination of John F. Kennedy."

Ebert didn't have to look far to find the chief Chicago-area pummeler: his Sun-Times colleague Irv Kupcinet has repeatedly used his column to flail JFK, Oliver Stone, and anyone else who has dared to challenge the findings of the Warren Commission report.....