Quote:I apologize then Phil, it seems as though I miss understood the title of this topic, JFK Assassination - The Names Who Planned It, and you said, They were not so much an agent for the President as they were for the wealthy, powerful interests outside of government that actually provided funding for some of their operations (e.g., William Pawley, the Luces and others). Time-Life getting control of the Z-film is a strong tell.
My apologies for connecting the two.
Scott,
I didn't start the thread or name it. I used the names of Pawley, the Luces as exemplars of the wealthy, powerful individuals who were adamantly opposed to Kennedy's approach to Cuba and who were active in the anti-Castro movement. Pawley organized operation TILT (TILT being an official CIA crypt) which was designed to smuggle out from Cuba supposed Russian officers who wanted to defect and reveal information about nuclear warheads and missiles that were still in Cuba (Hancock, Someone Would Have Talked, pp 7-11). The crazy SOB actually went on the mission itself (the boat trip, not the actual infiltration) which failed to produce the promised results which would have, if realized, caused tremendous political embarrassment to the Kennedy administration. LIFE magazine (owned by the Luces) "provided funds and media support" to TILT (Hancock, pp 335) and also sponsored Alpha 66 raids against Cuba (Hancock, pp 172-173). Both Pawley and Claire Booth Luce were members of the Citizen's Committee to Free Cuba (Hancock, pp 172). Also according to Hancock, Pawley was on a first-name basis with Dulles and enjoyed "extensive contacts" with senior CIA officials including Helms which gave him license to go directly to Ted Shackley at JMWAVE to pitch his operation.
Want more? Pawley committed suicide one week after being placed on the HSCA witness list by Gaeton Fonzi (Hancock, pp 338).
So while I did not specifically say that either Pawley or the Luces were directly involved in financing or instigating the Kennedy assassination its not unreasonable to consider them suspects.
Allen Dulles was always a faithful servant to the wealthy, powerful individuals who exercised influence over US foreign policy and the US intelligence community. No, I don't think they micro-managed every single thing Dulles did but in his long service he clearly learned what their interests were and was capable of doing what they would approve of without being asked. However, it beggars the imagination (well, mine anyway) that a venture as risky and dangerous as murdering the President of the United States would be undertaken by even Allen Dulles, who by that time held no official position in government, without approval from the power elites whom he had served.
Finally, I do consider Time-LIFE getting exclusive control over the Zapruder film as a strong tell as to the influence of the power elites in the assassination. Knowing who owned Time-LIFE and their involvement in the anti-Castro movement its really not a stretch to imagine that they could have been party to at least the cover up (you remember those out of sequence frames that seemed to show the head shot pushing JFK forward don't you?).
Yes, I have no way to "prove" any of this but the last time I checked this forum was not a court room. I'm merely expressing my opinion based on the information I have come across over the years. You're free to disagree but I would appreciate it if you would not misrepresent what I write particularly when there's actual evidence to support the allegations you imagine I made (but actually didn't).
Quote:I apologize then Phil, it seems as though I miss understood the title of this topic, JFK Assassination - The Names Who Planned It, and you said, They were not so much an agent for the President as they were for the wealthy, powerful interests outside of government that actually provided funding for some of their operations (e.g., William Pawley, the Luces and others). Time-Life getting control of the Z-film is a strong tell.
My apologies for connecting the two.
Scott,
I didn't start the thread or name it. I used the names of Pawley, the Luces as exemplars of the wealthy, powerful individuals who were adamantly opposed to Kennedy's approach to Cuba and who were active in the anti-Castro movement. Pawley organized operation TILT (TILT being an official CIA crypt) which was designed to smuggle out from Cuba supposed Russian officers who wanted to defect and reveal information about nuclear warheads and missiles that were still in Cuba (Hancock, Someone Would Have Talked, pp 7-11). The crazy SOB actually went on the mission itself (the boat trip, not the actual infiltration) which failed to produce the promised results which would have, if realized, caused tremendous political embarrassment to the Kennedy administration. LIFE magazine (owned by the Luces) "provided funds and media support" to TILT (Hancock, pp 335) and also sponsored Alpha 66 raids against Cuba (Hancock, pp 172-173). Both Pawley and Claire Booth Luce were members of the Citizen's Committee to Free Cuba (Hancock, pp 172). Also according to Hancock, Pawley was on a first-name basis with Dulles and enjoyed "extensive contacts" with senior CIA officials including Helms which gave him license to go directly to Ted Shackley at JMWAVE to pitch his operation.
Want more? Pawley committed suicide one week after being placed on the HSCA witness list by Gaeton Fonzi (Hancock, pp 338).
So while I did not specifically say that either Pawley or the Luces were directly involved in financing or instigating the Kennedy assassination its not unreasonable to consider them suspects.
Allen Dulles was always a faithful servant to the wealthy, powerful individuals who exercised influence over US foreign policy and the US intelligence community. No, I don't think they micro-managed every single thing Dulles did but in his long service he clearly learned what their interests were and was capable of doing what they would approve of without being asked. However, it beggars the imagination (well, mine anyway) that a venture as risky and dangerous as murdering the President of the United States would be undertaken by even Allen Dulles, who by that time held no official position in government, without approval from the power elites whom he had served.
Finally, I do consider Time-LIFE getting exclusive control over the Zapruder film as a strong tell as to the influence of the power elites in the assassination. Knowing who owned Time-LIFE and their involvement in the anti-Castro movement its really not a stretch to imagine that they could have been party to at least the cover up (you remember those out of sequence frames that seemed to show the head shot pushing JFK forward don't you?).
Yes, I have no way to "prove" any of this but the last time I checked this forum was not a court room. I'm merely expressing my opinion based on the information I have come across over the years. You're free to disagree but I would appreciate it if you would not misrepresent what I write particularly when there's actual evidence to support the allegations you imagine I made (but actually didn't).
Well Phil, I was merely asking the question as to where you believed William Pawley may have contributed to the financing of Kennedy's assassination. The purpose I ask this question is because I do have (proof) that Pawley did in fact contribute.
I thought you knew I guess you didn't William Pawley died in January 1977, 3 weeks after Pawley's death, Edwin Kaiser was killed, three weeks after Kaiser's murder George de Mohrenschildt was killed. What are the odds?
Quote:Well Phil, I was merely asking the question as to where you believed William Pawley may have contributed to the financing of Kennedy's assassination. The purpose I ask this question is because I do have (proof) that Pawley did in fact contribute.
Sorry, I misunderstood the intent of your response (although I think you could have made your intent clearer). To reiterate, all I have on Pawley are suspicions because of the documented record of his active involvement in the anti-Castro movement, his connections to the upper levels of the CIA and his attitudes towards Kennedy and I merely mentioned him as an example of the connections between Dulles and the type of individuals outside of government who had influence on or involvement in black ops, not specifically the assassination. If you have actual proof of Pawley's involvement in the events of 11/22/63 you're way, way ahead of me. Just a guess, but I would not consider him one of the prime movers but a guy who could have been easily recruited by the A-list players.
No, I did not know of the juxtaposition of Pawley's suicide and your father's passing (condolences). Yes, the sudden deaths of deMorenschildt, Pawley and your dad shortly before they were to testify before the HSCA is very fishy (and I guess we could consider the Giancana and Roselli murders in that same category although in connection with the Church Committee rather than the HSCA).
Jim Hargrove Wrote:To me, among many other things, this suggests that Hoover had prior knowledge of the plot, and did not simply lead the cover-up after LBJ demanded it. The FBI appeared to be a well-oiled machine under J. Edgar, but the speed with which he swept reality under the rug within hours of the hit was simply breathtaking and unnatural. What do you think?
I couldn't really say about prior knowledge. The actions of Hoover and LBJ strongly suggest that they put the pieces together pretty quickly after the event. They knew all the players if not the entire story. The FBI taking control of the evidence (despite a lack of jurisdiction), the almost immediate announcement of Oswald as the lone gunman and the early cut off of investigation of any leads not pointing to Oswald are all highly suspect. This all begs the question of what they thought they needed to cover up. It can't be the Soviet/Cuban angle. That could not have made sense to them, especially Hoover.
Hoover was confiscating "Oswald's" teen-aged school and employment records before making any substantial attempt to, as just one example, determine if anyone else in the U.S. government was being targeted for assassination. That suggests that he had prior knowledge of both the "Oswald project" and, in all likelihood, the limits of the conspirators' goals, i.e., to assassinate only JFK.
"Oswald" was on the FBI payroll while he was starring in the FPCC charade in New Orleans, and Hoover famously knew the very day after the hit that there was an "Oswald impostor" in Mexico City. To me, the Soviet/Cuban red herrings should have made some sense to both Hoover and, quickly enough, LBJ.
Quote:and Hoover famously knew the very day after the hit that there was an "Oswald impostor" in Mexico City.
Jim, the impostor who took those photos in Mexico is Richard Poyle. Then, Poyle discovered my father having the stolen photos'. He (Poyle) then went to the CIA and informed them, I sure wish the CIA would challenge me on this only so I could get them to expose everything, no one can discredit me, simply no one.
18-10-2016, 06:04 PM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2016, 06:28 PM by Tom Scully.)
Jim Hargrove Wrote:............
Hoover was confiscating "Oswald's" teen-aged school and employment records before making any substantial attempt to, as just one example, determine if anyone else in the U.S. government was being targeted for assassination. That suggests that he had prior knowledge of both the "Oswald project" and, in all likelihood, the limits of the conspirators' goals, i.e., to assassinate only JFK.
"Oswald" was on the FBI payroll while he was starring in the FPCC charade in New Orleans, and Hoover famously knew the very day after the hit that there was an "Oswald impostor" in Mexico City. To me, the Soviet/Cuban red herrings should have made some sense to both Hoover and, quickly enough, LBJ.
A bit OT but I am commenting in the thread in which the silence is glaring.....
Quote:Jim Hargrove Posted 07 February 2016 - 03:32 PM
.......Here's what John Armstrong wrote about it:
.......There is little doubt that Dial Ryder had an undated repair tag on November 23. There is no doubt the repair tag was intended to show the Irving Sports Shop mounted a scope on Oswald's $12.78 rifle. There is no question that one or more anonymous callers led the Dallas Police, FBI, and the press to the Irving Sports Shop. The unanswered ques*tion is who, if someone other than Dial Ryder, created the tag on Ryder's workbench and who, if someone other than Dial Ryder, notified the Dallas Police, the FBI, and the press.....
Tom Scully posted, "Dial Ryder was brother of Jack Leslie Bowen's (John Ceasar Grossi's) wife, the mother of Bowen's son, Fleta Lucille Ryder Bowen Mantooth.'
Mark A. O'Blazney Wrote:............
Am re-reading this again. Thanks, Tom.
Jim Hargrove did not respond. Jim, do you ever post anything on your own behalf? Do you intend to react to these new research details or
have you as of yet received no instruction to do so?
In between posts by surrogates and Scott's incessant self-promotion amounting to thread drowning, non-stop advertisement, I had hoped for a discussion of a key question,
who are (or at least examples of "tells" leading us to who implicated the one name the assassination was pinned on, and possibly, why.)
Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.
Quote:Tom Scully posted, "Dial Ryder was brother of Jack Leslie Bowen's
Excellent work Tom, and I do mean that, although, this may not, and I say, may not prove a conspiracy this cannot be ignored, very good work Tom, now if there's a link that can be connected showing proof that Bowen's connection to any intelligence agency and or the anti-Castro Cubans.
