JFK Assassination - The Names Who Planned It

[Scott Kaiser]

I think it reasonable to view Nelson Rockefeller along with Allen Dulles as the keys to connecting the sponsoring class with the mechanics. Dulles headed up the ad hoc bureaucracy to plan the murder and, just as importantly. the cover up. Rockefeller with Dulles would be the perfect people to connect elite industrial and banking families with the CIA and the military.

Yes, the Dulles-Rockefeller connection via Sullivan & Cromwell, Standard Oil and Freeport Sulphur sticks out like a sore thumb. As Fletcher Prouty liked to say the most important letter in the acronym CIA was the A, for Agency. They were not so much an agent for the President as they were for the wealthy, powerful interests outside of government that actually provided funding for some of their operations (e.g., William Pawley, the Luces and others). Time-Life getting control of the Z-film is a strong tell.

I see the Cubans, the Mafia and the right wing Texans as false sponsors and a source of personnel for the hit and other jobs. After all, they could never have pulled off the cover-up and they were also essential in setting up the patsy with a credible legend.

My personal opinion is that the Mob's only role was putting the arm on Ruby to kill Oswald after the initial plan to whack him after his "escape" from the TSBD failed.

LBJ? Hoover? No opinion, but very possibly they had been alerted. If not, they knew who was behind it within hours.

Of course they knew. Why else would they have initiated the manipulation of the physical evidence and the scrubbing of Oswald's school, work and military records within 24 hours of the assassination in order to merge the multiple assets using the LHO identity into the guy that was actually in custody. Both LBJ and Hoover had to suspect, if they weren't already aware, that Oswald was being set up by someone connected to US intelligence, after learning that the photos and voice recordings of "Oswald" at the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City did not correspond to the person arrested in Dallas. They sure couldn't have believed the story about Soviet/Cuban involvement that they used to sell the cover up. Why would the Soviets or Cubans want to create a link between a guy they hired to kill Kennedy and visits to their embassies?

Phil,

What makes you think Pawley was involved with any financing of the assassnation, better question is what proof does anyone here on this board have of any of the accusations you're making? Or is all this information just your opinions, if that's the case, then I'm beginning to undetstand a lot from reseachers.

[Scott Kaiser]

Let's not allow any monitor sensor or erase any post that any monitor feels it is an unfit post because it does not align with their agenda. I again asked what proof does anyone here have that Allen Dulles, Rockefeller or Pawley have in the financing of Kennedy's assassination, if you do not like the question don't erase it, this is a public forum.

[Phil Dagosto]

Phil,

What makes you think Pawley was involved with any financing of the assassnation, better question is what proof does anyone here on this board have of any of the accusations you're making? Or is all this information just your opinions, if that's the case, then I'm beginning to undetstand a lot from reseachers.

Hi Scott,

You should read more carefully. I said no such thing. I said that the CIA served as an agency for people such was Pawley not that he was specifically involved in "financing of the assassination". Also I made no "accusations" other than that the connections between Dulles and people like the Rockefellers, the Luces and Pawley (whose direct involvement with Cuban exile raids has been documented) seems highly suspicious in the context of the case and that Hoover and Johnson must have known or suspected what the real plot was and used misdirection too facilitate a cover up. I don't think either point is controversial, especially the latter. Hoover and Johnson they would have to have been stupid idiots not to have real suspicions about a domestic plot or to seriously believe Soviet or Cuban involvement after the failure to match the MC tapes and photos to the suspect arrested in Dallas. Whatever else we may think of Hoover and Johnson they were not stupid idiots.

Cheers,
Phil

[Scott Kaiser]

Phil,

What makes you think Pawley was involved with any financing of the assassnation, better question is what proof does anyone here on this board have of any of the accusations you're making? Or is all this information just your opinions, if that's the case, then I'm beginning to undetstand a lot from reseachers.

Hi Scott,

You should read more carefully. I said no such thing. I said that the CIA served as an agency for people such was Pawley not that he was specifically involved in "financing of the assassination". Also I made no "accusations" other than that the connections between Dulles and people like the Rockefellers, the Luces and Pawley (whose direct involvement with Cuban exile raids has been documented) seems highly suspicious in the context of the case and that Hoover and Johnson must have known or suspected what the real plot was and used misdirection too facilitate a cover up. I don't think either point is controversial, especially the latter. Hoover and Johnson they would have to have been stupid idiots not to have real suspicions about a domestic plot or to seriously believe Soviet or Cuban involvement after the failure to match the MC tapes and photos to the suspect arrested in Dallas. Whatever else we may think of Hoover and Johnson they were not stupid idiots.

Cheers,
Phil

I apologize then Phil, it seems as though I miss understood the title of this topic, JFK Assassination - The Names Who Planned It, and you said, They were not so much an agent for the President as they were for the wealthy, powerful interests outside of government that actually provided funding for some of their operations (e.g., William Pawley, the Luces and others). Time-Life getting control of the Z-film is a strong tell.

My apologies for connecting the two.

[Phil Dagosto]

To me, among many other things, this suggests that Hoover had prior knowledge of the plot, and did not simply lead the cover-up after LBJ demanded it. The FBI appeared to be a well-oiled machine under J. Edgar, but the speed with which he swept reality under the rug within hours of the hit was simply breathtaking and unnatural. What do you think?

I couldn't really say about prior knowledge. The actions of Hoover and LBJ strongly suggest that they put the pieces together pretty quickly after the event. They knew all the players if not the entire story. The FBI taking control of the evidence (despite a lack of jurisdiction), the almost immediate announcement of Oswald as the lone gunman and the early cut off of investigation of any leads not pointing to Oswald are all highly suspect. This all begs the question of what they thought they needed to cover up. It can't be the Soviet/Cuban angle. That could not have made sense to them, especially Hoover.

[Tom Scully]

I think it reasonable to view Nelson Rockefeller along with Allen Dulles as the keys to connecting the sponsoring class with the mechanics. Dulles headed up the ad hoc bureaucracy to plan the murder and, just as importantly. the cover up. Rockefeller with Dulles would be the perfect people to connect elite industrial and banking families with the CIA and the military.

Yes, the Dulles-Rockefeller connection via Sullivan & Cromwell, Standard Oil and Freeport Sulphur sticks out like a sore thumb. As Fletcher Prouty liked to say the most important letter in the acronym CIA was the A, for Agency. They were not so much an agent for the President as they were for the wealthy, powerful interests outside of government that actually provided funding for some of their operations (e.g., William Pawley, the Luces and others). Time-Life getting control of the Z-film is a strong tell.
............

............
.................In response to the question asked in the OP, my hunch is that those most involved in making the assassinations of JFK and Oswald and the subsequent cover up happen, involved these people, and those in my "sig" below. Follow the money.
.............

Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy.....

Scott, very often a conversation could be taking place here. Please at least consider watching it happen?

[Scott Kaiser]

I think it reasonable to view Nelson Rockefeller along with Allen Dulles as the keys to connecting the sponsoring class with the mechanics. Dulles headed up the ad hoc bureaucracy to plan the murder and, just as importantly. the cover up. Rockefeller with Dulles would be the perfect people to connect elite industrial and banking families with the CIA and the military.

Yes, the Dulles-Rockefeller connection via Sullivan & Cromwell, Standard Oil and Freeport Sulphur sticks out like a sore thumb. As Fletcher Prouty liked to say the most important letter in the acronym CIA was the A, for Agency. They were not so much an agent for the President as they were for the wealthy, powerful interests outside of government that actually provided funding for some of their operations (e.g., William Pawley, the Luces and others). Time-Life getting control of the Z-film is a strong tell.
............

............
.................In response to the question asked in the OP, my hunch is that those most involved in making the assassinations of JFK and Oswald and the subsequent cover up happen, involved these people, and those in my "sig" below. Follow the money.
.............

Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy.....

Scott, very often a conversation could be taking place here. Please at least consider watching it happen?

Tom,

I know you think I'm stupid, there's no reason you should change your mind.

.In response to the question asked in the OP, my hunch is that those most involved in making the assassinations of JFK and Oswald and the subsequent cover up happen, involved these people, and those in my "sig" below. Follow the money.
.............

Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy.....

If you were the only attorney, and I had to stand trail, I would represent myself.

[Mark A. O'Blazney]

I think it reasonable to view Nelson Rockefeller along with Allen Dulles as the keys to connecting the sponsoring class with the mechanics. Dulles headed up the ad hoc bureaucracy to plan the murder and, just as importantly. the cover up. Rockefeller with Dulles would be the perfect people to connect elite industrial and banking families with the CIA and the military.

Yes, the Dulles-Rockefeller connection via Sullivan & Cromwell, Standard Oil and Freeport Sulphur sticks out like a sore thumb. As Fletcher Prouty liked to say the most important letter in the acronym CIA was the A, for Agency. They were not so much an agent for the President as they were for the wealthy, powerful interests outside of government that actually provided funding for some of their operations (e.g., William Pawley, the Luces and others). Time-Life getting control of the Z-film is a strong tell.
............

............
.................In response to the question asked in the OP, my hunch is that those most involved in making the assassinations of JFK and Oswald and the subsequent cover up happen, involved these people, and those in my "sig" below. Follow the money.
.............

Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy.....

Scott, very often a conversation could be taking place here. Please at least consider watching it happen?

Tom,

I know you think I'm stupid, there's no reason you should change your mind.

.In response to the question asked in the OP, my hunch is that those most involved in making the assassinations of JFK and Oswald and the subsequent cover up happen, involved these people, and those in my "sig" below. Follow the money.
.............

Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy.....

If you were the only attorney, and I had to stand trail, I would represent myself.

Just like Colin Ferguson did……… right, Scott?

[Albert Doyle]

While it is always good to know who the sponsors were and their motives, I think catching and identifying their main agent, Allen Dulles, goes a long way in defeating their purpose. If sponsors are uncatch-able by their nature then the next best thing you can do is catch their main agents.

[Mark A. O'Blazney]

..............
......reality under the rug within hours of the hit was simply breathtaking and unnatural. What do you think?

I think it is impossible to determine what is irrelevant coincidence vs. what is germaine, as in this example, and a further grave concern is not knowing what I don't know, and I work at knowing more than the average student of the JFK Assassination.:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Rec...98/98c.pdf
.pdf pg. 3:
A photograph of JOHN CAESAR GROSSI,
also known as JACK LESLIE BOWEN,
Federal Bureau of Investigation, Identificatiiii -
Number 3,96J,794, was obtained from Wheat Photo Studios, Bryan
Street at Peak, Dallas, Texas, on June 21, 1956, by SA iAT A.
PINESTON, the photograph hiiing been made in April, 1956.

On interview July 6, 1956, the following description of
JOHN CAESAR GROSSI
was obtained from observation and questioning:
......
also known as
Jack Leslie Bowen
........
...Wife Lucille RYDER BOWER (now pregnant).

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bbirth_year%3A1956-1957~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Alucille~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Aryder~

Glenn Lewis Bowen
Texas Birth Index
Name Glenn Lewis Bowen
Event Type Birth
Event Date 11 Oct 1956
Event Place Dallas, Texas
Gender Male
Father's Name Jack Leslie Bowen
Mother's Name Fleta Lucille Ryder http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi...d=29053767

Oswald's alleged library card.:
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/m...1/med_res/




https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...h=mantooth








The Oregonian, December 14, 1957



1970.... Bowen/Grossi aka Roy Lee Mantooth...
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...5&tab=page

I accept that it was easy for Bowen / Grossi to obtain Mantooth's ID, but why use the ID of an ex-con?

The arrest record of Roy Lee Mantooth begins in 1940 when Bowen/Grossi was 13 years old.
I expect the Mantooth arrests in the 1960's were actually Bowen/Grossi impersonating Mantooth
(I could be wrong about some 1960's arrests)...

Mantooth's arrests, 1940 to 1948:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...4&tab=page
1949 to 1951:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...5&tab=page
1953 to 1957:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...6&tab=page
1957 to 1967:
[URL="https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=137474&search=mantooth#relPageId=67&tab=page"]https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=137474&search=mantooth#relPageId=67&tab=page

In 1970, the FBI seems not to understand that Bowen/Grossi, now aka Bolen, is described as paying child support by
Roy Lee Mantooth in the form of a stolen camper trailer. The point is that 7 years after the assassination, Bowen/Grossi was
still in contact with Dial Ryder's sister and her husband Roy Lee Mantooth.

[/URL]https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...6&tab=page[URL="https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=137474&search=mantooth#relPageId=67&tab=page"]
[/URL]


In response to the question asked in the OP, my hunch is that those most involved in making the assassinations of JFK and Oswald and the subsequent cover up happen, involved these people, and those in my "sig" below. Follow the money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_E._...ontroversy

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/O...958771.php
ON ECONOMICS: -- How Kennedy Assassination Affected Some Stock Prices
JONATHAN MARSHALL Published 4:00 am, Monday, November 18, 1996
.....................

Wedding Bells for Robert McNamara (washingtonpost.com)

www.washingtonpost.com › Print Edition › Style


The Washington Post


Sep 8, 2004 - McNamara will wed his Italian-born sweetheart, Diana Masieri Byfield, next week in a ceremony in Italy. This is the second marriage for both.
.....to Ernest Byfield, a former OSS officer and public relations executive.

Remembering Roger Ebert's Record of Integrity and Courage vs. Kupcinet's Towing the Line

Submitted by Tom Scully on Sat, 04/06/2013 - 15:52
Irv Kupcinet and Roger Ebert were columnists at the Chicago Sun-Times with overlapping careers of nearly 20 years. Ebert considered Kupcinet a close friend, despite this disconnect.:
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/kup...oid=881114 ( Kupcinet's conflicted "background": http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....opic=16754 )
Kup vs. JFK - Chronicle of a Columnist's Obsession - By Jim Kielty - Year In Review archives » December 24, 1992
In an essay on the Oliver Stone film JFK, published a month after his laudatory review in the Sun-Times, Roger Ebert wrote: "Never in my years as a newspaperman have I seen one subject pummeled so mercilessly and joylessly as this movie that questions the official wisdom on the assassination of John F. Kennedy."

Ebert didn't have to look far to find the chief Chicago-area pummeler: his Sun-Times colleague Irv Kupcinet has repeatedly used his column to flail JFK, Oliver Stone, and anyone else who has dared to challenge the findings of the Warren Commission report.....

Am re-reading this again. Thanks, Tom.