Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter

[Alan Ford]

Alan Ford,

If I remember right, David Belin & his trusty stopwatch clocked Jeraldean at 2 minutes flat, on 3 occasions, reaching the spot where she allegedly passed a mumbling Oswald in a t-shirt & with a Coke heading through her office and for the lobby stairs. It has struck me as creating an artificial reality stamp via his stopwatch. Kind of like the artificial reality stamp he gave when he questioned Slim Givens, when he concluded that odd & suspect testimony with, effectively, "We haven't talked about this before, Mr. Givens, have we?"

Like your point about Givens, a good example of how an investigation void of genuine questions was hijacked by rubber stamp dynamics engineered to convict an innocent human being, Mr. Oswald.

But Jeraldean's shaky account doesn't mean Geneva Hine is 100% gospel. She missed stuff like all witnesses do, like even semi-photographic mind Arnold Rowland did. So a researcher shouldn't go building his sand castles completely around the entirety of the account of one witness.

Shaky? I beg to differ here, because there is a wide spacing gap between trying to recall events and outright lying in order to buttress an initial lie. Plain and simple, Mrs. Reid lied. She, Mr. Truly, Officer Baker and the WC are the only one's guilty of building sand-castles. Unlike the plain simple truth, which is capable of standing all alone on its own, one lie needs even more lies to appear genuine. Again, the WC built their case on convicting an innocent human being on a mountain of lies. Mrs. Reid did not encounter the wrongfully accused in two minutes, let alone at all. She lied. Plain and simple. The photo clearly shows her downstairs and out front when in that same time sequence she lied about encountering the wrongfully accused.

After the alleged Jeraldean encounter, Oswald near-intercepted WFAA's Pierce Allman at the bottom of the lobby stairs, and directed him to a phone. So whatever WC reason for Jeraldean's shaky testimony, we researchers have an independent witness to Oswald at the tail-end of walking his building path from the lunchroom to the outside steps.

Where I believe the encounter with Mr. Allman does in fact take place, I'm not sold the wrongfully accused came down from the 2nd floor as much as down the entrance stairs after directing Mr. Allman. At this point, any critical researcher should be wary of most anything the FBI and/or the WC said happened that afternoon during the aftermath of the sudden, violent, illegal take over of a once free Republic. Again, I believe Mr. Oswald simply came down from the entrance steps after encountering Mr. Allman. The 2nd floor timeline is akin to Mrs. Reid's phantom encounter. Mrs. Reid lied about that plain and simple.

Postal Inspector Harry Holmes. who took notes of Oswald's Nov. 24 interrogation, testfied that Oswald said that when "all this commotion started, I just went on downstairs." Allman's SS interview at WCD 354 shows that he encountered with Oswald in the lobby.

Yes, here again, the wrongfully accused said downstairs, not downstairs from the 2nd floor, Did he? Amid the ensuing panic and chaos in the lobby and near the front entrance, the wrongfully accused simply removed himself from the hysteria and, quote, "went on downstairs" onto the street as he left the entrance stairs onto the street.

So again, it's not required to determine the exact reason for Jeraldean's phantom account. It doesn't necessarily mean the lunchroom event was make-believe. Her account just adds more fuel to the conclusion that the lunchroom incident was mis-related. Probably several details that spoke for Oswald's innocence.

Mis-related? As in the above sentence, quote, "went on downstairs"...again, Did Mr. Holmes say from the 2nd floor specifically? I'll adopt Missouri as my home state, and simply ask you to "Show Me' where Mr. Holmes specifically said down from the 2nd floor.

On the contrary @ mis-related as it concerns Mrs. Reid (because she didn't encounter the wrongfully accused two flights upstairs two minutes after the last shot, because she is clearly downstairs and outside in front of the building during the same timing sequence when she claims to be encountering the wrongfully accused to further buttress an outright lie. Mrs. Reid lied.

Unfortunately the stranglehold Sean Murphy has on too many unseasoned researchers is holding them back from reality-based detective work. And they're afraid to break out of the gangthink club, they might get scorned & ridiculed like me.

Fortunately, the invaluable contributions of Mr. Murphy (Sean) came to pass. May the good Lord bless him.

How terrifying, to have to think for yourself. How lazy, to not.

How encouraging that some folks in the research community are giving Mr. Murphy's breakthrough discovery the time and attention it deserves.

Again, appreciate your feedback, Mr. Gilbride, enjoy your day.

[LR Trotter]

All of my information on the elevators' power shut-off is contained in my 2015 mega-essay Inside Job in the subsection Frazier & the Elevator Power from pp. 40-51. The time question is analysed in the first 4 pages of that subsection.

The mega-essay is at my website jfkinsidejob.com

And very well explained. As "power off" was only for the elevators, and "the lights went out and the phones stopped ringing" was a reference to the lack of incoming phone calls lighting the specific extensions.
[size=12]
It is my understanding that there was not a telephone switchboard in use at the TSBD Building at 411 Elm St at the time, only phone line extensions. However, quite possibly a switchboard was located in another location nearby, at 1917 Houston St. So, a possibility exists that a switchboard at that location was utilized during normal business hours. And if so, a possibility exists that it was used to temporarily hold up incoming calls for the DealeyPlaza building to allow those employees to observe the JFK Motorcade. [/SIZE]

[Richard Gilbride]

Larry,

Geneva Hine's comment about the lights going out & phones going dead conjured up ideas about someone flipping a master TSBD power switch as the President's limousine was approaching. I remember this issue was clarified at Lancer about 2009, that the lights she was referring to were the plastic Lucite display lights on telephones that offices used in the early 60's to accomodate several near-simultaneous incoming calls.

And you're correct about the lack of a switchboard at 411 Elm: (VI, p. 395)

BALL: Was there a switchboard?
HINE: No, sir; we have a telephone with three incoming lines, then we have the warehouse line and we have an intercom system.
BALL: You don't have a switchboard?
HINE: Not now; we did in the other building.


I believe she is referring to the 1st floor of the Dal-Tex, where the TSBD Company had its clerical offices from about 1952-1962. The old Houston St. warehouse may or may not have had a switchboard. It seems likely that by November 1963 it did not have one. And it is likely that the Dal-Tex switchboard was still in existence.

The Dal-Tex switchboard probably still tied into the 411 Elm phone lines, but in an inactive mode, when the TSBD Company relocated its clerical offices to the 2nd-floor central offices at 411 Elm.

So there exists a probability that somebody monkeyed with the switchboard circuitry to get the phone connection deadened as the limousine approached.

The only alternative I've considered is that a small group of bogus callers all stopped calling about 12:29.

It is rather odd that the 411 Elm phones would go dead as the killers readied their trigger fingers. Just a typical military overkill precautionary move, leaving nothing to chance.

[Richard Gilbride]

Alan Ford,

You look at a TSBD building diagram, and you show me what stairs, other than the front lobby stairs, Oswald could possibly have used to show Pierce Allman where a phone was, and be stopped by a police officer before he left the building.

You are spinning Holmes' note-aided testimonial evidence about what Oswald said in his last interrogation, and what Allman specifically described to the Secret Service, into gibberish in an attempt to support Sean Murphy's fantasy of a lunchroom hoax. And believing your own bullshit.

Do have a nice day, unless you've made other plans.



WCD 354: "Mr. Allman stated that after he had entered the front door of the building, he had emerged into a hallway and there he met a white male whom he could not further identify. He asked the white male for the location of a telephone."

(VII, p. 302): HOLMES: Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs". And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about,a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."
And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

...

BELIN: Did Oswald say anything about seeing a man with a crewcut in front of that building as he was about to leave it? ... Did he say anything about telling a man about going to a pay phone in the building?
HOLMES: ... a man came rushing by and said, "Where's your telephone?" ... and said I am so and so, and shoved something at me which I didn't look at and said, "Where is the telephone?"
And I said, "Right there," and just pointed to the phone, and I went on out.

[Albert Doyle]

(VII, p. 302): HOLMES: Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs". And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about,a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."
And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

The context of Holmes' quoting of Oswald clearly says Oswald came down the internal building stairs of the Depository. Clearly Holmes understood this which is why he said he wasn't sure if Oswald took the elevator or not. There is no elevator on the front steps. Also, the word "downstairs" is not a description that someone would use in describing walking down the front steps. It is terminology that would be used when describing going down between floors inside the building.

Also, Oswald said "I went down" before the encounter with the officer, clearly indicating he had already made that trip downstairs before encountering the officer. He also made it more than clear he had already done the descending before he was stopped from going out to the front steps.


Oswald wouldn't tell what happened then because it involved getting in to a Rambler that created evidence of two Oswalds.

[Alan Ford]

Alan Ford,

You look at a TSBD building diagram, and you show me what stairs, other than the front lobby stairs, Oswald could possibly have used to show Pierce Allman where a phone was, and be stopped by a police officer before he left the building.

Look no further than the entrance stairs that Mr. Allman ascended and Mr. Oswald descended after encountering each other in the front lobby hallway.

You are spinning Holmes' note-aided testimonial evidence about what Oswald said in his last interrogation, and what Allman specifically described to the Secret Service, into gibberish in an attempt to support Sean Murphy's fantasy of a lunchroom hoax. And believing your own bullshit.

On the contrary, what I'm doing is not allowing anyone else to put words into Mr. Holmes mouth.

Of course, IF you are able to demonstrate that Mr. Holmes specifically said down the 2nd floor stairs I'm open to that revelation. Otherwise, anything else is simply speaking for him. I await your evidence.

Do have a nice day, unless you've made other plans.

Enjoying a fabulous day after experiencing two tornadoes touching down yesterday--yikes!

WCD 354: "Mr. Allman stated that after he had entered the front door of the building, he had emerged into a hallway and there he met a white male whom he could not further identify. He asked the white male for the location of a telephone."

The same Mr. Allman that corroborates the wrongfully accused's alibi by telling the United States Secret Service that, quote, "Oswald mistook me for a Secret Service Agent". That same Mr. Allman who encountered an individual who had calmly lingered inside the building as oppose to making a hasty getaway as the WC makes every effort to suggest. The same WC that did not have Mr. Allman testify. Wonder why?

(VII, p. 302): HOLMES: Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs". And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about,a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."
And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

Did you catch/note the key word there? quote, "my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building".

The only place officers (plural), were swarming was at the front entrance, not up on the 2nd floor in the lunch room. Only a single officer was scripted for that phantom encounter.

Now, we get a sense of why Truly intimated to the wrongfully accused we'll get back to you, quote, "so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

Out in the crowd as already being downstairs.

Otherwise, the wrongfully accused would have said something to the effect of, navigating down two flights of stairs and then out into the crowd. Of course, he didn't have to say that, because he was already close enough to the crowd downstairs, just down a flight of entrance stairs away to the street.

Begs the question, Did the wrongfully accused leave an area and join the others before he could be easily accused?

...BELIN: Did Oswald say anything about seeing a man with a crewcut in front of that building as he was about to leave it? ... Did he say anything about telling a man about going to a pay phone in the building?
HOLMES: ... a man came rushing by and said, "Where's your telephone?" ... and said I am so and so, and shoved something at me which I didn't look at and said, "Where is the telephone?"
And I said, "Right there," and just pointed to the phone, and I went on out.

Holmes shouldn't be speaking here for the wrongfully accused, nor should he be speaking for Mr. Allman either. Of course, IF the WC dared ask Mr. Allman to testify he would have relayed the same message he relayed to the United States Secret service, quote, "Oswald mistook me for a Secret Service Agent" (Sylvia Meagher's "Accessories After The Fact").

Must have been the crew-cut. Easily understandable, given who just got fired upon.

[Alan Ford]

1. Mrs. Reid outright lied about encountering Mr. Oswald on the 2nd floor. Any objective person researching this case should be very concerned about her outright lie, especially because officialdom used that phantom 2nd floor encounter to frame an innocent party.

2. The Warren Commission chose to ignore Pierce Allman. His encounter with Mr. Oswald puts a large, gaping hole in their timing sequence about an assassin making a hasty getaway, rather than the calm, helpful demeanor of Mr. Oswald simply directing someone to a telephone.

3. According to some of their CE 1381 statements a few employees who returned immediately inside the building following the last shot, took the elevators upstairs. Yet, according to Truly and Officer Baker these same elevators were "hung up" on higher floors, thus their use of the stairs. Did they really take the stairs?, Or, was that a useful narrative to create a 2nd floor encounter with the wrongfully accused?

Truly said he yelled upstairs for someone to send the elevators down (Truly says a lot of things); however, Jack Dougherty (in his Warren Commission testimony) shared that he heard no such thing from his vantage point up on the 5th floor near the elevator doors on that floor. Why were others able to use the elevators? but Truly and Baker couldn't? IF Truly yelled up for those elevators just as he says he did (Truly says a lot of things), anyone would have heard him in that small echo chamber, yet Mr. Dougherty disputes it ever happened.

4. Officer Baker took no less than four times to get his script, err story straight about the phantom 2nd floor encounter. Between him and Mrs. "you lied" Reid they have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

The plain simple truth doesn't require do overs, retakes, and outright lies.

[Richard Gilbride]

Alan Ford,

You may not be aware that in Western civilization we have long honored a tradition of constructing buildings with floors sequentially piled on top of each other, and numbering those floors according to established arithmetic.

So it is unequivocal that when Holmes testified that Oswald said that he "went on downstairs" and encountered Pierce Allman, and a police officer, and his "superintendent of the place" before he "just went on out in the crowd", that Oswald came from a floor higher than that on which he met these individuals, which necessarily implies that it was the 2nd floor. That doesn't need to be said, in order to be understood.

You know this full well, so you have gone full Missouri with a "show me where Holmes said the 2nd" attitude. Because your tactic of sidling into this lunchroom topic with your Reid material, hoping to catch me off-guard, has exploded in your face. You've now exposed a further gaping hole in the lunchroom hoax hypothesis- namely that Holmes vouched for Oswald coming down from the 2nd.

And one of the professional barroom bullshit artists at ROKC is going to have to concoct some phony explanation in order to cover another glaring gap in Murphy's hoax. Let me help- you've got to find some plausible reason for Holmes to intentionally lie about this.

My opinion on why Allman wasn't called to testify is that he would have thrown a spotlight on the police officer and superintendent of the place, which the Commission wanted to avoid. If you ever get around to reading the first two sections of Inside Job, you'll have a better grasp on that issue.

Here is a reality-check test that you are invited to take someday soon: Print up the Holmes & Allman excerpts, and 1st & 2nd floor diagrams, and pictures of the lobby stairs & entranceway alcove. Mark the pillar where the 1st-floor telephone was located.

Find a 6th-grader of normal intelligence. Tell him this isn't a trick question, that you are having a debate on what the Holmes & Allman excerpts are really saying. Ask him to read the excerpts and tell you his opinion about whether Oswald was upstairs or already on the 1st floor when Holmes' excerpt begins.

This reality-check will help you realize, Alan, that you have brain damage and are too heavily-brainwashed by the Murphyites to process rational information.

************************************************

One day, when you wake up & grow up, you will realize that Sean Murphy is just another stupid drunkard. He is the poster child for what can happen when you mix copious amounts of JFK research with copious amounts of alcohol. Out comes a convoluted mess. This is what John Barleycorn can do.

We'll never see Sean Murphy again. There's no way he can save face, no way he can answer for the destruction he's wrought. Imagine if your life's work was the 3 major-league bonehead hypotheses I reviewed in my topic Sean Murphy- Wrong Again!!! presently on p. 7 of the topics at this Deep Politics forum. The one thing he got correct was quitting the research community- and like the narcissistic drama queen he is, he did so on the 50th November 22nd.

And I don't mean to imply that Sean composed his theories while under the influence, but something far more insidious. Drinking so spottifies your brain tissue, that a good drunk on a Friday night will result in forgetting where you left your car keys- three Wednesdays later. Drinking during your early teens, while your brain is still developing tissue, will permanently impair your mental faculties. Dark spots on the grey matter.

And almost without exception, the followers of Murphy are abusers of firewater. And firewater leads to speaking with forked tongue, and acting without integrity.

Do you understand that you are just a useful idiot to these Bolsheviks?

The Lord hates idolatry, and hypocrites, and deceitful tongues, and drunkards.

I would not steer you wrong. Murphyism has been a mere sideline distraction, while Team JFK has been pushing the ball down the field- Barry Ernest & the Stroud document, Gerda Dunckel & the Couch film clip, Albert Doyle & the disassembly of the PrayerMan myth- these are some of the ground-gainers of recent times.

And despite all the abuse- for crying out loud, look at what Doyle has had to put up with, with ROKC's targeted attacks- so vile that their web carrier shut them down. And there's been a truckload of venom hurled at me.

And all we basically want to accomplish is to give you correctness. To get the community back to square one, because it has been lost in regressiveness instead of progressiveness, because it is so in love with the incorrect theories of Sean Murphy that it is losing touch with reality. Epic stupidity that has metastasized to the highest echelons- what used to be the highest echelons. TSBD analysis is not their strong suit, to put it kindly.

That's enough. We have nothing more to discuss, and I will not be responding to any of your comments for at least 3 months.

Hope you enjoy your Kloud Cuckoo-Land Kool-Aid. Do have a nice day, unless you've made other plans.

[Mark A. O'Blazney]

Alan Ford,

You may not be aware that in Western civilization we have long honored a tradition of constructing buildings with floors sequentially piled on top of each other, and numbering those floors according to established arithmetic.

So it is unequivocal that when Holmes testified that Oswald said that he "went on downstairs" and encountered Pierce Allman, and a police officer, and his "superintendent of the place" before he "just went on out in the crowd", that Oswald came from a floor higher than that on which he met these individuals, which necessarily implies that it was the 2nd floor. That doesn't need to be said, in order to be understood.

You know this full well, so you have gone full Missouri with a "show me where Holmes said the 2nd" attitude. Because your tactic of sidling into this lunchroom topic with your Reid material, hoping to catch me off-guard, has exploded in your face. You've now exposed a further gaping hole in the lunchroom hoax hypothesis- namely that Holmes vouched for Oswald coming down from the 2nd.

And one of the professional barroom bullshit artists at ROKC is going to have to concoct some phony explanation in order to cover another glaring gap in Murphy's hoax. Let me help- you've got to find some plausible reason for Holmes to intentionally lie about this.

My opinion on why Allman wasn't called to testify is that he would have thrown a spotlight on the police officer and superintendent of the place, which the Commission wanted to avoid. If you ever get around to reading the first two sections of Inside Job, you'll have a better grasp on that issue.

Here is a reality-check test that you are invited to take someday soon: Print up the Holmes & Allman excerpts, and 1st & 2nd floor diagrams, and pictures of the lobby stairs & entranceway alcove. Mark the pillar where the 1st-floor telephone was located.

Find a 6th-grader of normal intelligence. Tell him this isn't a trick question, that you are having a debate on what the Holmes & Allman excerpts are really saying. Ask him to read the excerpts and tell you his opinion about whether Oswald was upstairs or already on the 1st floor when Holmes' excerpt begins.

This reality-check will help you realize, Alan, that you have brain damage and are too heavily-brainwashed by the Murphyites to process rational information.

************************************************

One day, when you wake up & grow up, you will realize that Sean Murphy is just another stupid drunkard. He is the poster child for what can happen when you mix copious amounts of JFK research with copious amounts of alcohol. Out comes a convoluted mess. This is what John Barleycorn can do.

We'll never see Sean Murphy again. There's no way he can save face, no way he can answer for the destruction he's wrought. Imagine if your life's work was the 3 major-league bonehead hypotheses I reviewed in my topic Sean Murphy- Wrong Again!!! presently on p. 7 of the topics at this Deep Politics forum. The one thing he got correct was quitting the research community- and like the narcissistic drama queen he is, he did so on the 50th November 22nd.

And I don't mean to imply that Sean composed his theories while under the influence, but something far more insidious. Drinking so spottifies your brain tissue, that a good drunk on a Friday night will result in forgetting where you left your car keys- three Wednesdays later. Drinking during your early teens, while your brain is still developing tissue, will permanently impair your mental faculties. Dark spots on the grey matter.

And almost without exception, the followers of Murphy are abusers of firewater. And firewater leads to speaking with forked tongue, and acting without integrity.

Do you understand that you are just a useful idiot to these Bolsheviks?

The Lord hates idolatry, and hypocrites, and deceitful tongues, and drunkards.

I would not steer you wrong. Murphyism has been a mere sideline distraction, while Team JFK has been pushing the ball down the field- Barry Ernest & the Stroud document, Gerda Dunckel & the Couch film clip, Albert Doyle & the disassembly of the PrayerMan myth- these are some of the ground-gainers of recent times.

And despite all the abuse- for crying out loud, look at what Doyle has had to put up with, with ROKC's targeted attacks- so vile that their web carrier shut them down. And there's been a truckload of venom hurled at me.

And all we basically want to accomplish is to give you correctness. To get the community back to square one, because it has been lost in regressiveness instead of progressiveness, because it is so in love with the incorrect theories of Sean Murphy that it is losing touch with reality. Epic stupidity that has metastasized to the highest echelons- what used to be the highest echelons. TSBD analysis is not their strong suit, to put it kindly.

That's enough. We have nothing more to discuss, and I will not be responding to any of your comments for at least 3 months.

Hope you enjoy your Kloud Cuckoo-Land Kool-Aid. Do have a nice day, unless you've made other plans.

"………Sean Murphy is just another stupid drunkard"____________ Richard Gilbride

"……..look what Doyle has had to put up with" ________________ Richard Gilbride

"what hath God wrought?"__________________________Samuel Morse

[Alan Ford]

[quote=Richard Gilbride]Alan Ford,

You may not be aware that in Western civilization we have long honored a tradition of constructing buildings with floors sequentially piled on top of each other, and numbering those floors according to established arithmetic.

Does the 13th floor count?

So it is unequivocal that when Holmes testified that Oswald said that he "went on downstairs" and encountered Pierce Allman, and a police officer, and his "superintendent of the place" before he "just went on out in the crowd", that Oswald came from a floor higher than that on which he met these individuals, which necessarily implies that it was the 2nd floor. That doesn't need to be said, in order to be understood.

Hearsay at best. An outright lie to fulfill a contrived script like Mrs. Reid, Truly and/or Officer "I need four scripts to tell a smidgen of the truth" Baker.

The only time the general public actually hears the wrongfully accused ever speaking for himself he is always declaring his innocence. When others speak for him as in he said this, or he said that, he did this, or he did that, they are merely parroting back what they are suppose to say. Who needs 4x to tell the plain simple truth? Who lies about a 2nd floor encounter yet in the same timing sequence is standing outside? Truly, Baker and Mrs. Reid lied.

You know this full well, so you have gone full Missouri with a "show me where Holmes said the 2nd" attitude. Because your tactic of sidling into this lunchroom topic with your Reid material, hoping to catch me off-guard, has exploded in your face. You've now exposed a further gaping hole in the lunchroom hoax hypothesis- namely that Holmes vouched for Oswald coming down from the 2nd.

hearsay at best @ Holmes vouching for the 2nd floor...

And one of the professional barroom bullshit artists at ROKC is going to have to concoct some phony explanation in order to cover another glaring gap in Murphy's hoax. Let me help- you've got to find some plausible reason for Holmes to intentionally lie about this.

People lie everyday. Mrs. Reid did. Mr. Truly did. Officer Baker did 4x, but somehow you believe Holmes should be a candidate for sainthood?! They lied.

My opinion on why Allman wasn't called to testify is that he would have thrown a spotlight on the police officer and superintendent of the place, which the Commission wanted to avoid. If you ever get around to reading the first two sections of Inside Job, you'll have a better grasp on that issue.

I respect your work as I respect others putting their energy into this case, Mr. Gilbride, but on that issue I'll respectfully go with Sylvia Meagher's account, and what Pierce told the Secret Service, quote, "Oswald mistook me for a Secret Service agent"...we find that when people speak the plain simple truth as Pierce did he simply shared what actually happened (void of 4 scripts like some people to imply truth amid an outright lie).

Here is a reality-check test that you are invited to take someday soon: Print up the Holmes & Allman excerpts, and 1st & 2nd floor diagrams, and pictures of the lobby stairs & entranceway alcove. Mark the pillar where the 1st-floor telephone was located.

Duly noted...never anything wrong with looking at all of the evidence (something the WC avoided like the plague in their haste to frame an innocent human being).

Find a 6th-grader of normal intelligence. Tell him this isn't a trick question, that you are having a debate on what the Holmes & Allman excerpts are really saying. Ask him to read the excerpts and tell you his opinion about whether Oswald was upstairs or already on the 1st floor when Holmes' excerpt begins.

Unfortunately, for you, most 6th graders are already aware of hearsay "evidence" and the implication of the same.

This reality-check will help you realize, Alan, that you have brain damage and are too heavily-brainwashed by the Murphyites to process rational information.

On the contrary, some people just recognize a contrived script and liars for what they really are. Mrs. Reid flat out lied. Mr. Truly lied. Officer Baker lied.

************************************************

One day, when you wake up & grow up, you will realize that Sean Murphy is just another stupid drunkard. He is the poster child for what can happen when you mix copious amounts of JFK research with copious amounts of alcohol. Out comes a convoluted mess. This is what John Barleycorn can do.

May the good Lord Bless, Mr. Murphy

We'll never see Sean Murphy again. There's no way he can save face, no way he can answer for the destruction he's wrought. Imagine if your life's work was the 3 major-league bonehead hypotheses I reviewed in my topic Sean Murphy- Wrong Again!!! presently on p. 7 of the topics at this Deep Politics forum. The one thing he got correct was quitting the research community- and like the narcissistic drama queen he is, he did so on the 50th November 22nd.

And I don't mean to imply that Sean composed his theories while under the influence, but something far more insidious. Drinking so spottifies your brain tissue, that a good drunk on a Friday night will result in forgetting where you left your car keys- three Wednesdays later. Drinking during your early teens, while your brain is still developing tissue, will permanently impair your mental faculties. Dark spots on the grey matter.

And almost without exception, the followers of Murphy are abusers of firewater. And firewater leads to speaking with forked tongue, and acting without integrity.

Do you understand that you are just a useful idiot to these Bolsheviks?

The Lord hates idolatry, and hypocrites, and deceitful tongues, and drunkards.

I would not steer you wrong. Murphyism has been a mere sideline distraction, while Team JFK has been pushing the ball down the field- Barry Ernest & the Stroud document, Gerda Dunckel & the Couch film clip, Albert Doyle & the disassembly of the PrayerMan myth- these are some of the ground-gainers of recent times.

And despite all the abuse- for crying out loud, look at what Doyle has had to put up with, with ROKC's targeted attacks- so vile that their web carrier shut them down. And there's been a truckload of venom hurled at me.

And all we basically want to accomplish is to give you correctness. To get the community back to square one, because it has been lost in regressiveness instead of progressiveness, because it is so in love with the incorrect theories of Sean Murphy that it is losing touch with reality. Epic stupidity that has metastasized to the highest echelons- what used to be the highest echelons. TSBD analysis is not their strong suit, to put it kindly.

That's enough. We have nothing more to discuss, and I will not be responding to any of your comments for at least 3 months.

Hope you enjoy your Kloud Cuckoo-Land Kool-Aid. Do have a nice day, unless you've made other plans.[/QUOTE]

[quote=Richard Gilbride]Alan Ford,

You may not be aware that in Western civilization we have long honored a tradition of constructing buildings with floors sequentially piled on top of each other, and numbering those floors according to established arithmetic.

Does the 13th floor count?

So it is unequivocal that when Holmes testified that Oswald said that he "went on downstairs" and encountered Pierce Allman, and a police officer, and his "superintendent of the place" before he "just went on out in the crowd", that Oswald came from a floor higher than that on which he met these individuals, which necessarily implies that it was the 2nd floor. That doesn't need to be said, in order to be understood.

Hearsay at best. An outright lie to fulfill a contrived script like Mrs. Reid, Truly and/or Officer "I need four scripts to tell a smidgen of the truth" Baker.

The only time the general public actually hears the wrongfully accused ever speaking for himself he is always declaring his innocence. When others speak for him as in he said this, or he said that, he did this, or he did that, they are merely parroting back what they are suppose to say. Who needs 4x to tell the plain simple truth? Who lies about a 2nd floor encounter yet in the same timing sequence is standing outside? Truly, Baker and Mrs. Reid lied.

You know this full well, so you have gone full Missouri with a "show me where Holmes said the 2nd" attitude. Because your tactic of sidling into this lunchroom topic with your Reid material, hoping to catch me off-guard, has exploded in your face. You've now exposed a further gaping hole in the lunchroom hoax hypothesis- namely that Holmes vouched for Oswald coming down from the 2nd.

hearsay at best @ Holmes vouching for the 2nd floor...

And one of the professional barroom bullshit artists at ROKC is going to have to concoct some phony explanation in order to cover another glaring gap in Murphy's hoax. Let me help- you've got to find some plausible reason for Holmes to intentionally lie about this.

People lie everyday. Mrs. Reid did. Mr. Truly did. Officer Baker did 4x, but somehow you believe Holmes should be a candidate for sainthood?! They lied.

My opinion on why Allman wasn't called to testify is that he would have thrown a spotlight on the police officer and superintendent of the place, which the Commission wanted to avoid. If you ever get around to reading the first two sections of Inside Job, you'll have a better grasp on that issue.

I respect your work as I respect others putting their energy into this case, Mr. Gilbride, but on that issue I'll respectfully go with Sylvia Meagher's account, and what Pierce told the Secret Service, quote, "Oswald mistook me for a Secret Service agent"...we find that when people speak the plain simple truth as Pierce did he simply shared what actually happened (void of 4 scripts like some people to imply truth amid an outright lie).

Here is a reality-check test that you are invited to take someday soon: Print up the Holmes & Allman excerpts, and 1st & 2nd floor diagrams, and pictures of the lobby stairs & entranceway alcove. Mark the pillar where the 1st-floor telephone was located.

Duly noted...never anything wrong with looking at all of the evidence (something the WC avoided like the plague in their haste to frame an innocent human being).

Find a 6th-grader of normal intelligence. Tell him this isn't a trick question, that you are having a debate on what the Holmes & Allman excerpts are really saying. Ask him to read the excerpts and tell you his opinion about whether Oswald was upstairs or already on the 1st floor when Holmes' excerpt begins.

Unfortunately, for you, most 6th graders are already aware of hearsay "evidence" and the implication of the same.

This reality-check will help you realize, Alan, that you have brain damage and are too heavily-brainwashed by the Murphyites to process rational information.

On the contrary, some people just recognize a contrived script and liars for what they really are. Mrs. Reid flat out lied. Mr. Truly lied. Officer Baker lied.

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One day, when you wake up & grow up, you will realize that Sean Murphy is just another stupid drunkard. He is the poster child for what can happen when you mix copious amounts of JFK research with copious amounts of alcohol. Out comes a convoluted mess. This is what John Barleycorn can do.

May the good Lord Bless, Mr. Murphy