The Vehicle on the Grassy Knoll

[Peter Lemkin]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....hl=plumlee

Jan 12 2006 - Post #3 by Tosh Plumlee:
Thanks James. Yes I think you're right about Ed Mc Lemore. I might have mentioned him in a previous post. Ed Mc Lemore owned the "Sportatorium" in Dallas. He was also a close friend of Gordon Mc Clendon (phon) who owned radio KLIF and too, a close associate or Clint Murchison Sr. and operators of an Oil and gas drilling company in Midland Texas which LBJ held a financial interest.

Johnny Farentello's father had the concessions at the Wrestling arena ("The Sportatorum") Johnny was a close friend of John Martino of Miami. Fred Black used to hang out at the Sportatorum, as well as Mac Wallace. Jack Ruby made bets on "Gorgeous George" a wrestler of the time and Fred Black covered the bets. Candy Barr and Gary Dean Bearing also associated with this Dallas gambling bunch and others in Fort Worth Texas. These same people also hung out at " Austin's Bar BQ in Oakclif ( West Dallas) with Tom Pugh and Tippit of the Dallas PD.

I am trying to make the connection between the Army Intell unit, Seiwell and these people, because the money for guns were funneled through this place and some of these people had connections with Alpha-66 and Cecil Fernandez as well as others from Morgan City, LA. Some of the weapons came from the Texas National Guard.

Any help in this direction would be appreciated. I am not interested in the Cubans or Florida. That whole thing had nothing to do with JFK and Dallas. That was ongoing for a long time before JFK was murdered.

There are researchers who are members of this list who are concerned about the research Jay Harrison spent his entire life compiling, which is now in the hands of Walt Brown. However, Tosh Plumlee is alive and struggling to get researchers interested in helping make this connection. I find it amazing that nobody is helping with this. Richard Bartholomew did a fantastic job proving a Texas connection to that automobile allegedly connected to the JFK assassination and to certain persons in Austin, Texas. Jay Harrison and R.B. acquired the Rambler and stored it, and later Plumlee helped move it to another location. That auto and the persons connected to it provide essential proof about what happened in Dallas. Why is nobody interested in this subject?

Don't lose the faith Linda. What you're doing is for the record. That won't go away (hopefully anyway).

There are more bits of info on the Sportatorium. A man was killed there well before Dallas, but it seems Mac Wallace might well have 'done it' for someone connected to the ownership - connecting LBJ further with the place via Wallace. Second, according to Tosh it is the place where he and Sergio went after the Plaza to change clothes before proceeding to the safehouse in Oak Cliff.

[Dawn Meredith]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....hl=plumlee

Jan 12 2006 - Post #3 by Tosh Plumlee:
Thanks James. Yes I think you're right about Ed Mc Lemore. I might have mentioned him in a previous post. Ed Mc Lemore owned the "Sportatorium" in Dallas. He was also a close friend of Gordon Mc Clendon (phon) who owned radio KLIF and too, a close associate or Clint Murchison Sr. and operators of an Oil and gas drilling company in Midland Texas which LBJ held a financial interest.

Johnny Farentello's father had the concessions at the Wrestling arena ("The Sportatorum") Johnny was a close friend of John Martino of Miami. Fred Black used to hang out at the Sportatorum, as well as Mac Wallace. Jack Ruby made bets on "Gorgeous George" a wrestler of the time and Fred Black covered the bets. Candy Barr and Gary Dean Bearing also associated with this Dallas gambling bunch and others in Fort Worth Texas. These same people also hung out at " Austin's Bar BQ in Oakclif ( West Dallas) with Tom Pugh and Tippit of the Dallas PD.

I am trying to make the connection between the Army Intell unit, Seiwell and these people, because the money for guns were funneled through this place and some of these people had connections with Alpha-66 and Cecil Fernandez as well as others from Morgan City, LA. Some of the weapons came from the Texas National Guard.

Any help in this direction would be appreciated. I am not interested in the Cubans or Florida. That whole thing had nothing to do with JFK and Dallas. That was ongoing for a long time before JFK was murdered.

There are researchers who are members of this list who are concerned about the research Jay Harrison spent his entire life compiling, which is now in the hands of Walt Brown. However, Tosh Plumlee is alive and struggling to get researchers interested in helping make this connection. I find it amazing that nobody is helping with this. Richard Bartholomew did a fantastic job proving a Texas connection to that automobile allegedly connected to the JFK assassination and to certain persons in Austin, Texas. Jay Harrison and R.B. acquired the Rambler and stored it, and later Plumlee helped move it to another location. That auto and the persons connected to it provide essential proof about what happened in Dallas. Why is nobody interested in this subject?

I am not sure what point you are making here,Linda: That no one is interested in Jay's research? Some of us have tried desperately to get Walt to do something with Jay's life work. Only to be slandered here on this forum by good ole Walt. (He never did take well to any sort of criticism I noticed over the years).
Or not interested in the Rambler? I also have had much interest in this over the years, but the problem is no one can store it. I have discussed this with Bill Kelly most recently (about a year ago). I don't want to post more publicly but if you wish to discuss what I have learned PM me and I will give you my number. (I am in court this morning but will be around in the afternoon).
Dawn

[Linda Minor]

I am not sure what point you are making here,Linda: That no one is interested in Jay's research? Some of us have tried desperately to get Walt to do something with Jay's life work. Only to be slandered here on this forum by good ole Walt. (He never did take well to any sort of criticism I noticed over the years).
Or not interested in the Rambler? I also have had much interest in this over the years, but the problem is no one can store it. I have discussed this with Bill Kelly most recently (about a year ago). I don't want to post more publicly but if you wish to discuss what I have learned PM me and I will give you my number. (I am in court this morning but will be around in the afternoon).
Dawn

The point is that if Jay trusted Tosh Plumlee with the car, there must have been a reason. Why is it that Tosh has been working so hard to discover who set him up on the hot check charge in Columbus, but nobody seems interested in that? I'm just trying to find out if Jay knew something that connected Tosh's allegations about a gun-running network he was involved with, a National Guard-Army Intelligence unit operating in Dallas out of Love Field under his Commanding Officer Seiwell, and a man who may have been the driver of the car at some time?

I don't know whether there was a link or not, but Jay must have thought so in order to have opened up to Tosh. Walt Brown is not the issue here. Why not duplicate Jay's work and find out what he knew about how this network was linked to both Tosh and the Rambler?

[Dawn Meredith]

[quote=Dawn Meredith]

The point is that if Jay trusted Tosh Plumlee with the car, there must have been a reason. Why is it that Tosh has been working so hard to discover who set him up on the hot check charge in Columbus, but nobody seems interested in that? I'm just trying to find out if Jay knew something that connected Tosh's allegations about a gun-running network he was involved with, a National Guard-Army Intelligence unit operating in Dallas out of Love Field under his Commanding Officer Seiwell, and a man who may have been the driver of the car at some time?

I don't know whether there was a link or not, but Jay must have thought so in order to have opened up to Tosh. Walt Brown is not the issue here. Why not duplicate Jay's work and find out what he knew about how this network was linked to both Tosh and the Rambler?

Linda, Jay had good reason to trust Tosh, they were good friends dating badk to the 50's.
As for anyone "duplicating Jay's work" I don't know anyone with the kind of connections and contacts Jay had, in the intel world, Dallas police- (of which he was an alum)- and far, far more. Jay was, as he called it, "very deep cover" . I just don't understand why Walt refuses to do anything meaningful with Jay's research.
What is your basis for connecting Seiwell to this particular Rambler? Richard is really the Rambler expert, but he is not doing much these days in this area. I am sure many of us would love to have the ability to dublicate Jay's research. It's certainly a meritorious idea.
Dawn

[Linda Minor]

[quote=Dawn Meredith]

The point is that if Jay trusted Tosh Plumlee with the car, there must have been a reason. Why is it that Tosh has been working so hard to discover who set him up on the hot check charge in Columbus, but nobody seems interested in that? I'm just trying to find out if Jay knew something that connected Tosh's allegations about a gun-running network he was involved with, a National Guard-Army Intelligence unit operating in Dallas out of Love Field under his Commanding Officer Seiwell, and a man who may have been the driver of the car at some time?

I don't know whether there was a link or not, but Jay must have thought so in order to have opened up to Tosh. Walt Brown is not the issue here. Why not duplicate Jay's work and find out what he knew about how this network was linked to both Tosh and the Rambler?

Linda, Jay had good reason to trust Tosh, they were good friends dating badk to the 50's.
As for anyone "duplicating Jay's work" I don't know anyone with the kind of connections and contacts Jay had, in the intel world, Dallas police- (of which he was an alum)- and far, far more. Jay was, as he called it, "very deep cover" . I just don't understand why Walt refuses to do anything meaningful with Jay's research.
What is your basis for connecting Seiwell to this particular Rambler? Richard is really the Rambler expert, but he is not doing much these days in this area. I am sure many of us would love to have the ability to dublicate Jay's research. It's certainly a meritorious idea.
Dawn

Tosh has been trying to get someone at this forum interested for the last couple of weeks, but nobody was responding except me. You may wish to do a search at DP to find his threads recently.

[Peter Lemkin]

[quote=Dawn Meredith]

The point is that if Jay trusted Tosh Plumlee with the car, there must have been a reason. Why is it that Tosh has been working so hard to discover who set him up on the hot check charge in Columbus, but nobody seems interested in that? I'm just trying to find out if Jay knew something that connected Tosh's allegations about a gun-running network he was involved with, a National Guard-Army Intelligence unit operating in Dallas out of Love Field under his Commanding Officer Seiwell, and a man who may have been the driver of the car at some time?

I don't know whether there was a link or not, but Jay must have thought so in order to have opened up to Tosh. Walt Brown is not the issue here. Why not duplicate Jay's work and find out what he knew about how this network was linked to both Tosh and the Rambler?

Linda, Jay had good reason to trust Tosh, they were good friends dating badk to the 50's.
As for anyone "duplicating Jay's work" I don't know anyone with the kind of connections and contacts Jay had, in the intel world, Dallas police- (of which he was an alum)- and far, far more. Jay was, as he called it, "very deep cover" . I just don't understand why Walt refuses to do anything meaningful with Jay's research.
What is your basis for connecting Seiwell to this particular Rambler? Richard is really the Rambler expert, but he is not doing much these days in this area. I am sure many of us would love to have the ability to dublicate Jay's research. It's certainly a meritorious idea.
Dawn

Jay spent from the day of the assassination until his death investigating the whole case and its players [with unique access to DPD and MI people because of his own connections to both]. While one can in theory try to 'duplicate' that, most of the people he had access to we never could and/or they are now not alive. His archive is somewhere between 1-4 million pages! We are told it sits in a public storage facility somewhere in NJ under Walt's control. The easiest thing would be to get Walt to make it accessible. Troubling is that Tosh once told me he told Walt not to make anything about him [Tosh] accessible to me or others - so go figure. As Jay and Tosh were long and close friends, it is reasonable to assume that the amount Jay had on Tosh was very large and would cover all his activities - including the very ones under discussion. The research HAS been DONE! It sits somewhere in New Jersey we are told - along with documents, I'm sure. Another troubling aspect is that Walt had/has a request from me to copy and send for reimbursement of copy/scan costs all that Jay had on Tosh. That now seems to be on permanent hold, but in his last email to me Walt told me that 'another researcher' was in the storage looking at the Plumlee materials as he wrote! When asked who it was and if I might work with this 'other researcher', I was greeted with silence and now non-contact. Again - go figure. I hope Tosh has changed his mind on trying to block access to what materials Jay might have on him, as Walt is problematic enough. This is the kind of endless 'stuff' that goes on investigating this case that is frustrating and end with us chasing our tails moving quickly, going nowhere. The jury is still out on this one, but it is troubling, indeed. Tosh, how'z about you asking Walt to scan and make two copies on DVD or CD of Jay's files on you for us? Would go a long way to getting to the bottom of the Rambler story, the Seiwell and MI story, your story and perhaps opening-up Jay's work to others.......

Seiwell is a VERY interesting character and the person who brought Tosh into the covert world. Seiwell was connected to many interesting persons we are familiar with and more so those in TX and Dallas area. It wouldn't surpise me one bit that he was in some way connected with the car....but, again, Jay would have copious notes on that - Tosh directed him toward Seiwell and others in his past long ago, I'm sure.

[Linda Minor]

I know another researcher who did work with Jay over a period of months. He told me what Jay was researching when he knew him, and it was all very incomprehensible. It is impossible to say "the research is done" when you are talking about the massive volume of work that is in a raw state and not analyzed.

What I am saying is that Tosh is alive and willing to work with researchers today who are willing to join with him as Jay did and work to find out what we can.

It would take a huge amount of work to sort through all the data Jay collected over 40 years of time. I know from what my friend tells me that Jay looked at everything whether it ultimately led to anything or not. How many people have the time, money and dedication to devote to such a task?

If you look at what I have found in the last week while using a computer away from my home base, you can see that certain facts can be uncovered. But it takes time, energy and work.

[Peter Lemkin]

I know another researcher who did work with Jay over a period of months. He told me what Jay was researching when he knew him, and it was all very incomprehensible. It is impossible to say "the research is done" when you are talking about the massive volume of work that is in a raw state and not analyzed.

What I am saying is that Tosh is alive and willing to work with researchers today who are willing to join with him as Jay did and work to find out what we can.

It would take a huge amount of work to sort through all the data Jay collected over 40 years of time. I know from what my friend tells me that Jay looked at everything whether it ultimately led to anything or not. How many people have the time, money and dedication to devote to such a task?

If you look at what I have found in the last week while using a computer away from my home base, you can see that certain facts can be uncovered. But it takes time, energy and work.

I'm sure more can be done, didn't mean the work was complete. In fact, I don't know of anyone else who's even seen and commented on the quality of Jay's work other than Walt - who did tell me some general things - but I'm not at the moment inclined to necessarily believe - though it could be true. He said much of it was geneological work-ups. Walt also most recently [just before the public letter from Charles on the internet] that Jay's work was 'mostly useless' - possible - but I really doubt it. I meant that the basics of who Seiwell was, for example, and how he tied-in with the TX-MI over time; DPD; CIA; anti-Castro Cubans; Texas rich and right; others we know about; Tosh; etc. must be done well beyond where we generally are now. And many other TX and Dallas players or those suspected of having been. One can always do more and more documents are always becoming available - although fewer people remain. Linda, was your friend able to in any way evaluate the general quality of Harrison's research?

[Linda Minor]

I'm sure more can be done, didn't mean the work was complete. In fact, I don't know of anyone else who's even seen and commented on the quality of Jay's work other than Walt - who did tell me some general things - but I'm not at the moment inclined to necessarily believe - though it could be true. He said much of it was geneological work-ups. Walt also most recently [just before the public letter from Charles on the internet] that Jay's work was 'mostly useless' - possible - but I really doubt it. I meant that the basics of who Seiwell was, for example, and how he tied-in with the TX-MI over time; DPD; CIA; anti-Castro Cubans; Texas rich and right; others we know about; Tosh; etc. must be done well beyond where we generally are now. And many other TX and Dallas players or those suspected of having been. One can always do more and more documents are always becoming available - although fewer people remain. Linda, was your friend able to in any way evaluate the general quality of Harrison's research?

Based on what my friend who worked with Jay told me about what they did together over a period of months, I would have to agree that much of what Jay left for Walt was genealogical work, which he saved in a format in a software program that cannot be quickly converted to html. And he didn't explain how the genealogy fit into other research he did. Much of it was guesswork; the kind of stuff I also do, which involves searching for possible connections between people. I'm sure that is what Walt would have meant by "useless," because Jay didn't throw out anything after he looked at it and discarded it, just in case he would find later it did tie back in.

My friend idolizes Jay to the this day, suspecting, but not being quite sure, that Jay knew much more than he would ever say, given the fact that he was so totally paranoid. In fact, Jay cut off relations with my friend, dropped him flat, just as he had done Richard Bartholomew earlier, because my friend mentioned to Jay that he had discovered his middle name! Jay was that suspicious of everyone, and he researched everyone. That's why the research he left is so voluminous.

[Dawn Meredith]

I'm sure more can be done, didn't mean the work was complete. In fact, I don't know of anyone else who's even seen and commented on the quality of Jay's work other than Walt - who did tell me some general things - but I'm not at the moment inclined to necessarily believe - though it could be true. He said much of it was geneological work-ups. Walt also most recently [just before the public letter from Charles on the internet] that Jay's work was 'mostly useless' - possible - but I really doubt it. I meant that the basics of who Seiwell was, for example, and how he tied-in with the TX-MI over time; DPD; CIA; anti-Castro Cubans; Texas rich and right; others we know about; Tosh; etc. must be done well beyond where we generally are now. And many other TX and Dallas players or those suspected of having been. One can always do more and more documents are always becoming available - although fewer people remain. Linda, was your friend able to in any way evaluate the general quality of Harrison's research?

Based on what my friend who worked with Jay told me about what they did together over a period of months, I would have to agree that much of what Jay left for Walt was genealogical work, which he saved in a format in a software program that cannot be quickly converted to html. And he didn't explain how the genealogy fit into other research he did. Much of it was guesswork; the kind of stuff I also do, which involves searching for possible connections between people. I'm sure that is what Walt would have meant by "useless," because Jay didn't throw out anything after he looked at it and discarded it, just in case he would find later it did tie back in.

My friend idolizes Jay to the this day, suspecting, but not being quite sure, that Jay knew much more than he would ever say, given the fact that he was so totally paranoid. In fact, Jay cut off relations with my friend, dropped him flat, just as he had done Richard Bartholomew earlier, because my friend mentioned to Jay that he had discovered his middle name! Jay was that suspicious of everyone, and he researched everyone. That's why the research he left is so voluminous.

Linda,
Very interesting. I wonder if I knew ( or knew of) your friend. Jay indeed had a temper and while he was paranoid he was also very trusting and generous with his research. He got very burned as a result, many times that I became aware of. I am also intimately aware of and was involved in the Jay/Richard situation. I was smack in the middle and literally spent years trying to get them to make up: to no avail, both were too stubborn. Walt was totally in the midst of this. I won't go as far as Richard and say he caused it but he certainly benefited. Your friend had every reason to think Jay knew a lot. He did. And by his genealogy studies when he researched someone he was able to learn more by looking at their family members, making more connections.

I have a hard time believing that Jay would end a friendship over someone learning his middle name. But given just HOW private he was...I am sure HE did not want anyone researching him. In part it was fear. Some of the people with whom he worked met with very early demises. One in particular was one that haunted him up until his death. Stephen Pegues. They worked on much together including Mac Wallace. Jay wanted that story told and I did learn from Billie Sol Estes that he-Estes- had indeed bought those rights. Pegues died under most mysterious circumstances and his work was stolen, at the same time. This spooked Jay out 'til the end.
Dawn