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Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile
#11
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:
Jack White Wrote:Her problems may be real, but her stories are wild, bizarre and untrue.

Quote:Edited by the moderators to conform to forum rules

Jack - I have just seen this post and, unless Judyth Vary Baker has been diagnosed by a qualified professional as having Munchausen Syndrome, in my personal capacity (as there is no majority of mods about at this time) I do not consider it an appropriate comment for DPF.

I will be raising it with the other mods. However, again in my personal capacity, I would ask you to either substantiate your comment or withdraw it.

Thank you.

I am not a medical professional. The sister of Rich DellaRosa who
IS a medical professional rendered an opinion to Rich that she suffered
from this or a related mental condition. I am persuaded that the opinion
fits this woman, who is very abusive to anyone who disputes her
unbelievable tales.

If you wish, delete my message. This whole thread is irrelevant
and only diverts attention away from more important matters.
I don't care about JVB at all.
Quote:Edited by the moderators to comply with forum rules.
, in my opinion...IF I am allowed to
have an opinion.

Jack
Reply
#12
Jack White Wrote:I am not a medical professional. The sister of Rich DellaRosa who
IS a medical professional rendered an opinion to Rich that she suffered
from this or a related mental condition. I am persuaded that the opinion
fits this woman, who is very abusive to anyone who disputes her
unbelievable tales.

Jack - as we all know, there are plenty of researchers and witnesses (whether genuine or not) who get angry, even abusive, when their accounts are challenged. It goes with the territory.

Attributing a medical or psychological condition to such a researcher or witness, in the absence of genuine corroborated expert diagnosis, is not acceptable. In my judgement.

I will go further. There are important witnesses in this broad field who have been deliberately diagnosed with medical or psychological conditions in order to discredit their testimony.

So, in my judgement, if such a diagnosis has been made by a qualified professsional, it would be acceptable to report it. However, it would also be acceptable to challenge that diagnosis if there was evidence to do so.

An example is in the affidavit of Dee Ferdinand, the daughter of Colonel Al Carone, who describes the activities of her LSD doctor and CIA-connected shrink uncle Pasquale Carone .

Here is Dee's (DF) testimony in her affidavit. Her father was blowing the whistle on nefarious activities involving deep black drug-dealing:

Quote:RK: And how do you know Pasquale Carone?
DF: He is my father's brother.
RK: This was the same uncle who was the physician?
DF: Psychiatrist.
RK: Who is the psychiatrist. And do you speak with your uncle?
DF: No I don't.
RK: Now when your father became ill, being a psychiatrist, your uncle would have certain medical skills.
Was he involved in any treatment with your father?
DF: No, but he wanted to be.
RK: And he was not allowed?
DF: No.
RK: At whose desire?
DF: My father's but mine because I held the Power of Attorney.
RK: What did your father say about it?
DF: Not to trust his brother under any conditions.
RK: Have you had any dealings with your uncle?
DF: Quite a few.
RK: Excuse me?
DF: Quite a few.
RK: Quite a few. Does he know anything about the property you are seeking?
DF: Yes.
RK: Has he passed that information to you?
DF: About any property?
RK: Right.
DF: My uncle will not help me in any way. My uncle told me I am opening up a Pandora's box. My uncle told me if I continued, I would be disowned by him. My uncle thinks I am totally crazy and that I need to be put on Thorazine. He has stated that he would get medical care for me because I need to drop all of this nonsense and it will only cause a problem within the family.

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/feature_a...isting.htm

Jack White Wrote:If you wish, delete my message. This whole thread is irrelevant
and only diverts attention away from more important matters.
I don't care about JVB at all. She is either a very sick person or
a planted disinformation agent, in my opinion...IF I am allowed to
have an opinion.

Jack

Jack, with respect, it's not that simple as your friend, James Fetzer, started this thread.

However, I thank you for responding so quickly, and it may be that the DPF Mods decide to delete some of the exchanges about this matter.
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."

Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon

"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
Reply
#13
Jack White Wrote:
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:
Jack White Wrote:Her problems may be real, but her stories are wild, bizarre and untrue.

She suffers from Munchausen Syndrome.

"FACTITIOUS DISORDER, (of which MUNCHAUSEN SYNDROME is a sub-type), (also called "Adult Munchausen", and "Adult Factitious Disorder") is a formal, DSM-IV mental health diagnosis in which people deliberately exaggerate and/or fabricate and/or induce physical and/or psychological-behavioral-mental health problems in themselves. The primary purpose of this behavior is to gain some form of internal gratification, such as attention, for themselves."

Jack - I have just seen this post and, unless Judyth Vary Baker has been diagnosed by a qualified professional as having Munchausen Syndrome, in my personal capacity (as there is no majority of mods about at this time) I do not consider it an appropriate comment for DPF.

I will be raising it with the other mods. However, again in my personal capacity, I would ask you to either substantiate your comment or withdraw it.

Thank you.

I am not a medical professional. The sister of Rich DellaRosa who
IS a medical professional rendered an opinion to Rich that she suffered
from this or a related mental condition. I am persuaded that the opinion
fits this woman, who is very abusive to anyone who disputes her
unbelievable tales.

If you wish, delete my message. This whole thread is irrelevant
and only diverts attention away from more important matters.
I don't care about JVB at all. She is either a very sick person or
a planted disinformation agent, in my opinion...IF I am allowed to
have an opinion.

Jack

Jack,

IMO you are missing the point. In addition to the fact that the medical professional you refer to has presumably not examined JVB personally, so can't make an informed diagnosis, you are breaking forum rules, specifically:

"13. All members, including DPF moderators and founders, should receive identical treatment from the DPF moderators, and abide by the agreed rules of engagement.

14. Our fundamental objective is for DPF to be an arena where research can be seriously discussed, and thoroughly refuted if appropriate, without name-calling or member abuse. It is acceptable to be robust and even dismissive of the arguments of other members, if analysis and evidence are provided. It is acceptable to state that a particular argument serves the agenda of the powerful, again if analysis and evidence are provided. However, since DPF is primarily intended as an arena where serious informed research can be developed and debated, it is not acceptable to describe another member as, for instance, an agent provocateur."

Please make the points you want to make without breaking forum rules. It's as simple as that.

Myra
Reply
#14
Myra Bronstein Wrote:
Jack White Wrote:
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:
Jack White Wrote:Her problems may be real, but her stories are wild, bizarre and untrue.

Quote:Edited by the moderators to conform to forum rules.

Jack - I have just seen this post and, unless Judyth Vary Baker has been diagnosed by a qualified professional, in my personal capacity (as there is no majority of mods about at this time) I do not consider it an appropriate comment for DPF.

I will be raising it with the other mods. However, again in my personal capacity, I would ask you to either substantiate your comment or withdraw it.

Thank you.

I am not a medical professional. The sister of Rich DellaRosa who
IS a medical professional rendered an opinion to Rich that she suffered
from this or a related mental condition. I am persuaded that the opinion
fits this woman, who is very abusive to anyone who disputes her
unbelievable tales.

If you wish, delete my message. This whole thread is irrelevant
and only diverts attention away from more important matters.
I don't care about JVB at all. , in my opinion...IF I am allowed to
have an opinion.

Jack

Jack,

IMO you are missing the point. In addition to the fact that the medical professional you refer to has presumably not examined JVB personally, so can't make an informed diagnosis, you are breaking forum rules, specifically:

"13. All members, including DPF moderators and founders, should receive identical treatment from the DPF moderators, and abide by the agreed rules of engagement.

14. Our fundamental objective is for DPF to be an arena where research can be seriously discussed, and thoroughly refuted if appropriate, without name-calling or member abuse. It is acceptable to be robust and even dismissive of the arguments of other members, if analysis and evidence are provided. It is acceptable to state that a particular argument serves the agenda of the powerful, again if analysis and evidence are provided. However, since DPF is primarily intended as an arena where serious informed research can be developed and debated, it is not acceptable to describe another member as, for instance, an agent provocateur."

Please make the points you want to make without breaking forum rules. It's as simple as that.

Myra

I was unaware that JVB was a MEMBER of this forum. By her
own efforts, she has become a HISTORICAL FIGURE. I assumed
that any historical figure may be discussed. However, feel free
to delete any and all of my comments. I care nothing at all about
JVB. She is IRRELEVANT to JFK research.

Jack
Reply
#15
I am sure Jack is now aware that name calling or other personal abuse is not permitted on the DPF for any reason.

This is a good, sound and well considered rule that benefits everyone who is a member here, or who is otherwise active in the community of researchers - and who are (as we all know) by definition, strong characters of independent mind -- and usually hearty voice.

There are other forums that encourage dismay and abuse and we all know which they are. And most members here are members of those too, and anyone of us may freely indulge themselves in those other places - to their hearts content.

But let's please continue to allow this forum to continue to be a safe haven for well constructed argument, and equally well considered and sanguine comment.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
Reply
#16
James Douglass in JFK and the Unspeakable pages 351-5 relates the story of witness Ralph Leon Yates.

Yates picked up a hitchhiking Oswald look-alike November 20, 1963 who was carrying a 4-1/2-foot-long package of curtain rods and delivered him to the stoplight by the Depository.

Yates notified the FBI and after reinterviewing failed to discredit his story, he was given a polygraph exam, then sent to Woodlawn Hospital, the Dallas hospital for the mentally ill.

Through an exchange of memos between Shanklin and Hoover it was determined the course to take.

Yates spent the remaining eleven years of his life subjected to Thorazine and Stelazine to the extent "they made him walk around like a zombie."

He was subjected to forty to forty-two electroshock treatments.

Lisa Pease in "MLK: Section I: The Struggle for a New Trial" in The Assassinations page 462 notes the prosecution placed the wife of the only witness placing Ray in the rooming house in a mental institution so she could not testify.
Reply
#17
Jack White Wrote:
Myra Bronstein Wrote:
Jack White Wrote:
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Jack - I have just seen this post and, unless Judyth Vary Baker has been diagnosed by a qualified professional, in my personal capacity (as there is no majority of mods about at this time) I do not consider it an appropriate comment for DPF.

I will be raising it with the other mods. However, again in my personal capacity, I would ask you to either substantiate your comment or withdraw it.

Thank you.

I am not a medical professional. The sister of Rich DellaRosa who
IS a medical professional rendered an opinion to Rich that she suffered
from this or a related mental condition. I am persuaded that the opinion
fits this woman, who is very abusive to anyone who disputes her
unbelievable tales.

If you wish, delete my message. This whole thread is irrelevant
and only diverts attention away from more important matters.
I don't care about JVB at all. , in my opinion...IF I am allowed to
have an opinion.

Jack

Jack,

IMO you are missing the point. In addition to the fact that the medical professional you refer to has presumably not examined JVB personally, so can't make an informed diagnosis, you are breaking forum rules, specifically:

"13. All members, including DPF moderators and founders, should receive identical treatment from the DPF moderators, and abide by the agreed rules of engagement.

14. Our fundamental objective is for DPF to be an arena where research can be seriously discussed, and thoroughly refuted if appropriate, without name-calling or member abuse. It is acceptable to be robust and even dismissive of the arguments of other members, if analysis and evidence are provided. It is acceptable to state that a particular argument serves the agenda of the powerful, again if analysis and evidence are provided. However, since DPF is primarily intended as an arena where serious informed research can be developed and debated, it is not acceptable to describe another member as, for instance, an agent provocateur."

Please make the points you want to make without breaking forum rules. It's as simple as that.

Myra

I was unaware that JVB was a MEMBER of this forum. By her
own efforts, she has become a HISTORICAL FIGURE. I assumed
that any historical figure may be discussed. However, feel free
to delete any and all of my comments. I care nothing at all about
JVB. She is IRRELEVANT to JFK research.

Jack

I disagree that she is "irrelevent". I just read through the long thread at Ed forum and wish to thank Dr James Fetzer for his passionate and pain staking defense of Judyth. Is he "lying" about new unpleasant matters he is experiencing since becoming an advocate for Judyth? (Why would he lie?) I do agree with Jack that Judyth divides the research community but I do not agree with his analysis. Dr. Fetzer has done a fine job of refuting the many claims made against Judyth. As has this witness to history herself.

Dawn
Reply
#18
FYI, JVB is watching this thread and just sent me an email. So, whatever one's feelings are, I'd suggest/ask one be kind to a person who, if nothing else, has and does suffer. She has apparently moved again and [Magda you will appreciate this] wears a burka when outside. She speaks of a book coming out soon. Time will tell and many we thought were telling tall tales later were found out to not be....and all other possible combinations and permutations - granted.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Reply
#19
It is standard operating procedure at both the CIA and DIA to brand someone that either agency has targeted for discrediting as a person with bona fide mental problems or afflictions as described in the DSM. This tactic has proven quite effective over past decades. Both agencies even use it to discredit and rid themselves of their own pesky employees.
Reply
#20
I wish first to thank you for a forum where insults are not allowed.
Dr. James Fetzer is investigating my testimony. On Education Forum,
he presented documentation that was ignored. I think he was quite
amazed. he was also surprised at getting a death threat, have his
emails blocked, and a You Tube video about me that he posted erased.
I have not posted here because of not wishing Jack White, especially, to disrupt your forum. He has never met me. He was upset because I have
answers about the Armstrong Harvey & Lee matter. He said Armstrong investigated me. No, he listened to secondhand reports only.
Those who actually know me, stand by my side.
I do not seek attention, only justice for Lee Oswald.
And i do not post so your forum doesn't get inundated with fights. Just peek at Education Forum, this date, to see what happened when Dr. Fetzer, who DID take time to interview me.
I applaud this forum for having dignity and order. Dr. Fetzer has already learned, by comparing my documentation with what is being said about me, that I have been maligned. I believe that Peter Dale Scott has done infinite
good toward establishing the truth. I know he has heard only bad things about me, but took hope when he responded to a poem on Facebook.
So many untruthful things were blasted at Dr. Fetzer at the Ed Forum that I think he was amazed. Over there, Jack White was able to state that I was mentally deranged and refused to respond when Dr. Fetzer put the results of a total neuropsychlogical evaluation by a certified psychologist on line stating I was not prone to storytelling or had any other mental problems. What concerned me is that he came to this forum and repeated his "diagnosis" here, though it is against forum rules. I appreciate all that Jack has done with the backyard photos, etc. He has stated I have nothing for the research community, despite new verified witnesses and the assessments of investigators who all went on to make film. Important among them was respected Dutch criminal investigator Peter de Vries, who went on to use me as a witness in his JFK assassination mini-series shown across Europe.
I hope everyone will visit Jim Fetzer's blogspot.com entry that he posted here. Please do not close your mind. I have suffered a great deal and wish I could return to the US. But it seems that will be impossible. God bless you all for your progress in the case. Lee Oswald of course was innocent. I have insisted that he was a hero since 1999. Abraham Bolden and others are now confirming this. Sincerely, Judyth Vary Baker
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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