Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Jan Klimkowski]

JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK (IN PART):

ABOUT THOSE LATE NIGHT PHONE CALLS:

AS FOR THE MAFIA BETTING LINE, WE HAVE NEWSPAPER ARTICLES ABOUT A MASSIVE BETTING RING BEING UNCOVERED...
HERE WAS ONE IN 1957, SOON AFTER THE APPALACHIA MAFIA ROUNDUP::

"About two weeks after that raid, federal agents broke up a Terre Haute, Ind., gambling operation that handled as much as $10 million in bets during a 10-week period. A federal grand jury was convened to investigate the gambling operation. More than 170 people nationwide were subpoenaed, and Ryan was one of them. The investigation uncovered a nationwide telephone betting system that had wagers on everything from college and professional football to the World Series. Bets on single games were as high as $10,000."

http://www.haciendahotsprings.com/RayRyan.htm

THIS 1964 BOOK--MENTIONS MAFIA BETTING LINES...

Organized Crime / U.S.

...There's an entire chain of mini-conspiracies, ... It's about Mafia influence in U.S. business: trucking, garbage, the meat industry, ...This book also offers an introduction to the world of betting lines, odds makers and ...
Montreal: Pocket Books, 1964. 241 pages.

WE HAD ACCESS TO A MAFIA HORSE RACE BETTING LINE WITH SOME SPECIAL PHONE NUMBERS. AS ONE RESEARCHER WHO INVESTIGATED ME (AND THEN BECAME A SUPPORTER) OBSERVED, AFTER TRACING THE PHONE LINE ROUTES, IN NEWSPAPER ARTICLES FROM 1964-1965, "MAYBE THE FBI DIDN'T HEAR THEM TALKING, BUT THE MAFIA COULD." THAT WAS SOMETHING WE'D NEVER CONSIDERED...SO I GUESS MONK IS RIGHT ABOUT 'WISDOM' AFTER ALL....

JVB

[quote name='Jack White' post='187712' date='Mar 24 2010, 08:41 PM']
Thanks for the laundromat information. I had never seen that. As I recall from the DellaRosa forum,
some researcher had researched a possible laundromat and could find none. I cannot remember
the name of the researcher who said there was no laundromat.

I recall that years later when I finally checked out Beckley Street in person, there was a gas station
across from the 1026 rooming house...and no signs of a washateria; the rest was residential.
Perhaps the laundromat was converted later to a gas station. I remember looking on both
Beckley and Zang for a washateria, and could find none...but that was many years later, so it
could have closed.

I also noted that your info said the washateria closed at midnight. As I recall JVB's claim, it was
said to be a 24-hour place, and that the phone calls were often after midnight.

Also, the claim is that somehow a mafia phone line was patched into the pay phone. I cannot
imagine this happening without the knowledge of Southwestern Bell.

Thanks.

Jack

I find the research about the prohibitively high cost of long distance calls from a payphone in a laudromat clear, compelling and checkable.

I'm afraid I don't regard the fact that the Mob ran "a nationwide telephone betting system that had wagers on everything from college and professional football to the World Series" much of a rebuttal.

How did LHO learn of these mafia "free phones"?

Why would LHO have been given access to mafia "free phones" to make long distance love calls? That's not helping the Mob to make money.

[James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH REPLIES TO DON JEFFRIES:

I think I talked him out of it.

I saw his firearms on the 3rd floor at Banister's building (we called it that in 1963 -- the Warren Commission and researchers call it the Newman Buiklding...By the way, Lee did not refer to the building where he worked as the "Texas School Book Depository." The building had a different name than that....The TSBD was a company that rented that building. I think the WC called the Newman Building that to draw attention away from Guy Banister. Banister moved into that building before it was purchased by Mr. Newman, who had FBI ties, by the way, which probably everybody knows...

Firearms and much more were stored on the 3rd floor, ignored by everybody (why?) ...This is where Banister kept plenty of anti-Casro munitions, tents, rifles, you name it...Interestingly, after the raid at Lake Pontchartrain, a lot more stuff ended up there on the third floor....

Here I saw a .38 long-nose S &W that belonged to Lee and a souvenir -- he called it, a silver Derringer....He said he owned no other weapons...No rifle...Soon Marina Oswald would arrive from Irving, TX......Again, I hope I talked him out of 'warning shot' scenario.....

What irritates me is their finding a holster in his boarding house room, but then they have him supposedly just sticking a SHORT NOSE S &W in his pants and carrying it like that, supposedly at the Texas Theatre -- Think about this a minute.

YOU CANNOT RUN WITH A SNUB-NOSE S & W STUCK IN YOUR PANTS. IT WILL FALL OUT.....WHICH MEANS THAT, HE CARRIED IT IN HIS POCKET? BUT WHEN HE GETS TO THE TEXAS THEATRE HE DECIDES INSTEAD TO STICK IT IN HIS PANTS AT THE WAIST? LOGIC APPLIED SAYS 'NOT LIKELY.'

NOW PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY.

I HAVE READ ALL THE ARREST ACCOUNTS CAREFULLY. SOME VARY. I READ THE ARRESTING OFFICER'S COMMENTS WITH SPECIAL CARE.

IN TESTIMONY, THE ARRESTING OFFICER SAID HE APPROACHED LEE, WITH HIS REVOLVER DRAWN...WE DO NOT HAVE ANYONE MOVING IN ON LEE OSWALD UNTIL THIS POLICEMAN ARRIVES...WHEN HE ARRIVES, THEN THEY MOVE IN......

NOW, THESE POLICE DO NOT TELL PEOPLE TO LEAVE, NOR DO THEY ACT AS IF LEE OSWALD IS ARMED AND DANGEROUS. YET HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SUSPECT....THEY 'INSPECT' ONE AFER ANOTHER OF THE FEW IN THE THEATRE, CLOSING IN ON HIM...THEY WOULD LIKE HIM TO RUN, SO THEY CAN SHOOT HIM DEAD...

LEE UNDERSTANDS THIS.

THOUGH HE IS A 'SUSPECT' IN THE TIPPIT MURDER, THEY ACT AS IF HE IS UNARMED....
IN OHER WORDS, THEY K-N-O-W HE IS UNARMED, PEOPLE.

THEY KNOW IT. THEY KNOW HE WLL NOT DRSAW A REVOLVER AND START SHOOTING A EVERYBODY.

THEY HOPE HE'LL LOSE HIS SELF-CONTROL AND BOLT SO THEY CAN SHOOT HIM.

THEY APPROACH SLOWLY AND WITH THEIR REVOLVERS DRAWN.

NEXT -- THE ARRESTING OFFICER SAID LEE SUDDENLY PULLED HIS SNUB-NOSED REVOLVER FROM HIS PANTS WAIST AREA AND THE OFFICER STOPPED HIM FROM SHOOTING HIM AND STRUGGLED FOR POSSESSION OF THE REVOLVER....

BUT WHEN DID THE OFFICER PUT AWAY HIS REVOLVER, WITH WHICH HE APPROACHED LEE OSWALD?

HE NEVER DID.

IT WOULD DEFY LOGIC THAT THE OFFICER APPROACHING LEE WITH REVOLVER DRAWN WOULD PUT IT AWAY BEFORE HIS ENCOUNTER WITH LEE.

FAR MORE LIKELY, THE RIGGED REVOLVER, WHICH COULD NOT FIRE AND HURT ANYBODY -- WHICH MODEL WAS A FAVORITE MODEL FOR OFF-DUTY POLICE TO CARRY, BY THE WAY -- WAS THRUST AT OSWALD IN AN ATTEMPT TO SHOOT HIM AND LEE, A TRAINED MARINE, STOPPED HIM FROM DOING SO.

THE OFFICERS THEN COULD NOT SHOOT BECAUSE THEY MIGHT HAVE HIT THE ARRESING OFFICER.

LEE SAW IT COMING.

HE STRUCK THE OFFICER SO HE WOULDN'T BE SHOT, NOT KNOWING THIS REVOLVER WOULD BE PLANTED ON HIS PERSON AFTER THEY SHOT HIM DEAD.

THE ARRESTING OFFICER WAS IN ABSOLUTELY NO DANGER AND MAY EVEN HAVE TRIED TO THRUST HIS REVOLVER INTO LEE'S PANTS, FROM HIS DESCRIPTION OF THE EVENT -- A DESCRIPTION, HOWEVER, THAT INCLUDED HIS SAYING THAT HE HAD HIS REVOLVER DRAWN INSIDE THE THEATER.

HENCE LEE THEN SHOUTS THAT HE IS NOT RESISTING ARREST AS THEY PULL HIM DOWN---SO THEY COULD NOT SHOOT HIM....

SEVERAL ACCOUNTS TALK ABOUT HEARING A 'CLICK' WHICH IS, IN FACT, ABSURD IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT KIND OF REVOLVER. ACCORDING TO (NOW DECEASED, BUT I HAVE HIS CORRESPONDENCE) BALLISICS EXPERT JOHN RITCHSON -- THE WAY IT WAS RIGGED NOT TO FIRE. IT WOULD NOT HAVE MADE A SOUND AS DESCRIBED...

ANOTHER ITEM TO CONSIDER: THE HOLSTER.

WOULD LEE OSWALD HAVE JUST PULLED THE SNIUB NOSE .38 FROM THE HOLSTER INSTEAD OF JUST GRABBING THE HOLSTER WITH REVOLVER AND HURRIEDLY BELTING IT ON? WHAT'S A HOLSTER FOR?

BUT, YOU SEE, THEY HAD TO MAKE SURE THAT A HOLSTER WAS PRESENT IN HIS BOARDING HOUSE ROOM TO HELP TIE HIM TO OWNING A REVOLVER...

WE HAVE RECENLY LEARNED THAT THE DALLAS POLICE WERE FAMOUS FOR PLANTING FALSE EVIDENCE BACK THEN, AND OVERDID SOME OF THE PLANTED EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE...

HERE'S A FACT:

LEE OSWALD DIDN'T LKE HOLSTERS AND -- VERY CAREFUL WIH HIS MONEY -- WOULD NOT HAVE PURCHASED ONE.

HE CARRIED THE S&W I SAW IN A SMALL GREEN BAG,

HE THOUGHT HOLSTERS WERE 'TOO OBVIOUS.'

HOW DO I KNOW? BECAUSE HE BROUGHT A SMALL GREEN BAG TO CARRY THE REVOLVER (WHICH WAS STORED IN ITS ORIGINAL BOX) AND MENTIONED IT.

I DO NOT KNOW A THING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN DALLAS, PERSONALLY, ONLY WHAT LEE TOLD ME SOME 37 1/2 HOURS EARLIER.....

BUT I DO KNOW THAT LEE OSWALD SAID HE KEPT HIS FIREARMS AT BANISTER'S BECAUSE HIS BABY, JUNE LEE, WAS WALKING AND HE DID NOT WANT HER TO GET INTO HIS GUNS. HE SAID "GUNS."

HE ALSO SAID, AS A JOKE, THAT HE KEPT HIS FIREARMS AT BANISTER'S BUILDING SO IN CASE MARINA GOT REALLY, REALLY MAD AT HIM, SHE WOULDN'T SHOOT HIM.

HE MADE LOTS OF JOKES AND THEY WERE ALL WRY AND IRONIC ONES, LIKE THAT. SOMETIMES IT WAS A BIT HARD TO KNOW WHETHER HE WAS PULLING YOUR LEG OR BEING SEROUS!

NOTE THAT GEORGE DEMOHRENSCHILDT IN "I'M A PATSY!" (WHICH THE HSCA HAS), LISTS ABOUT A DOZEN JOKES THAT LEE TOLD HIM...

THEREFORE I HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE DALLAS' FINEST PLANTED THE HOLSTER.

JUST AS THEY TRIED TO SAY LEE OSWALD HAD A 'MAP' -- IN ALL THE PAPERS...SHOWING THE BULLET PATHS [THE TRAJECTORIES] HE PLANNED TO SHOOT! -- THEN QUIETLY IT GOES AWAY AS IT WAS NO SUCH THING...BUT OSWALD IS THUS A HATED MAN...

I DONT' KNOW EVERYHING ABOUT LEE, OF COURSE, BUT I KNOW ENOUGH AND REMEMBER ENOUGH TO EASILY PICK OUT WHAT IS TRUE AND WHAT IS NOT ABOUT A LOT OF THE "SO-CALLED EVIDENCE" (THE SAME TERM LEE USED, BY THE WAY).

I HAVE TO STRAIGHTEN THESE THINGS OUT FOR POSTERITY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. FOR AS JFK SAID, WE ARE ALL MORTAL.

I'M DOING THIS FOR JFK, TOO, [HOPEFULLY] TO FORCE THE GOVERNMENT TO ADMIT THEY PULLED A COUP ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

THAT'S WHY I AM GRATEFUL THAT AFTER EFFORTS OF TEN YEARS, WHERE I KEPT GETTING HUMBLED AND SHOUTED DOWN, DR. FETZER IS KEEPING THIS THREAD ON TRACK, DESPITE ALL SORTS OF SIDE QUESTIONS -- WHICH HAVE BEEN ANSWERED ELSEWHERE BUT SEEMS EVERYBODY 'FORGOT' THESE QUESIONS THAT WERE ANSWERED -- SUCH AS THE OFF-THE-SUBJECT ONE ABOUT MY TRANSLATING HIEROGLYPHS, WHICH THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY CAN DO, INCLUDING ME, BUT WHICH IS COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC.

THIS IS HOW THEY EXHAUSTED ME BEFORE, FOR I HAVE STRENGTH LIMITATIONS.

IT IS LIKE HAVING TO JUMP HURDLE AFTER HURDLE JUST TO BE ABLE TO POST ANSWERS ON SERIOUS QUESTIONS, SUCH AS THE SERIOUS AND RELEVANT QUESTION YOU SO ASKED, WHICH I AM HAPPY TO ANSWER TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY.

JVB

[quote name='Don Jeffries' post='187775' date='Mar 25 2010, 07:13 AM']

Jim,

I didn't mean to criticize the way this thread has been handled. I didn't realize JVB was a member, and also was unaware that it is physically that difficult for her to post. Sorry for any confusion.

Judith, I'm interested in exactly what LHO told you about the impending assassination. Of particular interest to me is the comment about him perhaps firing a warning shot. This would indicate he was going to be carrying a gun (or have access to one) that day. Did he tell you that he was bringing a rifle to the TSBD? I apologize if this has been gone over before, and you've previously addressed this subject. Thanks.[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH REPLIES ABOUT LEE'S DYSLEXIA:

If dyslexia is a learning disorder that manifests itself as a difficulty with reading, spelling, and sometimes mathematics, that suggests that either Lee didn't read or he wasn't dyslexic. This looks like an area of inquiry that warrants further exploration.

THE STATEMENT SUGGESTS AN 'EITHER-OR' SITUATION THAT DOES NOT EXIST:

Dyslexia is a learning disorder, but it has a range of severity. For example, Lee's spelling was bad because he couldn't transfer letters in the right order at all times WHEN HE WAS PHYSICALLY WRITING THEM.

SOMETIMES that made him mis-read a word. But not often. His problem was transferring words to paper, as in a spelling test. He got good --sometimes superior -- grades in reading -- and terrible grades in spelling.

But reading and writing are two different areas of dylexic problems.

Example:

Can you read the sentence below?

The b_st th_ngs in l_fe are Fr_e.

Yes, you can probably read everything!

Y_s, you c_n pr_b_bly read ever_th_ng!

As an intelligent dyslexic of a certain type reads, he can get better and better at filling in the blanks, so to speak, especially of familiar words.

JUDYTH REPLIES TO LOLA ON DYSLEXIA:

But I don't think that you can suffer from a mild form of dyslexia and at THE SAME TIME love reading.

==But it's true...His letters prove spelling problems of the usual kind associated with mild dyslexia....But he is on record as having taken out oodles of books, difficult reading, too....He used a dictionary constantly to avoid spelling errors...

You can hear Lee reading a text over in Russia if you go to the website I think it's called LEE HARVEY OSWALD IN MINSK by Peter Wronke. You can hear Lee readng clearly and cleanly and then hits a hard word -- which was "matriculation" -- and he says he'll look it up in the dictionary.

i have medals in baskeball, swimming, volleyball, and all-round athletics from University of Florida...Even a medal in baskeball though I'm only 5' 2"!

Did I avoid basketball because I was short?

But I don't think that you can suffer from a mild form of dyslexia and at THE SAME TIME love reading.

==Yes, he did, and yes, he did==

It is possible that due to him being forced to use his right hand when his natural inclination was to use his left hand might had had an averse influence?

==This is a probably the original source of his dyslexia, yes, as his earliest grades were sraight A's and it probably took a little time to train the other side of his brain to adapt, which it did==

He loved classical music and chess and was very good at chess...Here we see him simulating he other side of the brain, which had to help...==

JVB

------------------------

"In 95% of right-handers, the left side of the brain is dominant for language. Even in 60-70% of left-handers, the left side of brain is used for language. Back in the 1860s and 1870s, two neurologists (Paul Broca and Karl Wernicke) observed that people who had damage to a particular area on the left side of the brain had speech and language problems. People with damage to these areas on the right side usually did not have any language problems. The two language areas of the brain that are important for language now bear their names: Broca's area and Wernicke's area."

------------------------

Wikepedia: "Dyslexia[1] is a learning disorder that manifests itself as a difficulty with reading, spelling and in some cases mathematics. It is separate and distinct from reading difficulties resulting from other causes, such as a non-neurological deficiency with vision or hearing, or from poor or inadequate reading instruction.[2] It is estimated that dyslexia affects between 5% and 17% of the U.S. population.[3]"

Greg, Interesting suggestion. I am starting to put together the personality and character of "the two Oswalds", neither of whom, as I understand it, would appear to have Asperger syndrome. Dawn has described the one known as "Lee" as hot-tempered and non-intellectual, having no interest in Marxism and incapable of speaking Russian. The one known as "Harvey", by contrast, is of a calm and intellectual demeanor, fluent in Russian and interested in political philosophy. Moreover, "Harvey", in particular, had a wife and even a girlfriend, from what Judyth has to tell us, which does not support the notion that he was socially inept. There still appears to be considerable room for questions about these identifications. Judyth, for example, who (according to Jack) knew the one called "Harvey" in New Orleans (who called himself "Lee") had a Cajun accent and hated the name "Harvey". According to Jack, however, Judyth knew "Harvey" who was Hungarian and liked the name "Harvey". It would appear that they cannot both be right, even about "Harvey". If dyslexia is a learning disorder that manifests itself as a difficulty with reading, spelling, and sometimes mathematics, it suggests that either "Harvey" didn't read or he wasn't dyslexic. This looks like an area of inquiry that warrants further exploration.

Asperger syndrome
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Asperger syndrome
Classification and external resources

Seated boy facing 3/4 away from camera, looking at a ball-and-stick model of a molecular structure. The model is made of colored magnets and steel balls.

People with Asperger's often display intense interests, such as this boy's fascination with molecular structure.
ICD-10 F84.5
ICD-9 299.80
OMIM 608638
DiseasesDB 31268
MedlinePlus 001549
eMedicine ped/147
MeSH F03.550.325.100

Asperger syndrome is an autism spectrum disorder, and people with it therefore show significant difficulties in social interaction, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. It differs from other autism spectrum disorders by its relative preservation of linguistic and cognitive development. Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and atypical use of language are frequently reported.[1][2]

Asperger syndrome is named for the Austrian pediatrician Hans Asperger who, in 1944, described children in his practice who lacked nonverbal communication skills, demonstrated limited empathy with their peers, and were physically clumsy.[3] Fifty years later, it was standardized as a diagnosis, but many questions remain about aspects of the disorder.[4] For example, there is doubt about whether it is distinct from high-functioning autism (HFA);[5] partly because of this, its prevalence is not firmly established.[1] The diagnosis of Asperger's has been proposed to be eliminated, replaced by a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder on a severity scale.[6]

The exact cause is unknown, although research supports the likelihood of a genetic basis; brain imaging techniques have not identified a clear common pathology.[1] There is no single treatment, and the effectiveness of particular interventions is supported by only limited data.[1] Intervention is aimed at improving symptoms and function. The mainstay of management is behavioral therapy, focusing on specific deficits to address poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness.[7] Most individuals improve over time, but difficulties with communication, social adjustment and independent living continue into adulthood.[4] Some researchers and people with Asperger's have advocated a shift in attitudes toward the view that it is a difference, rather than a disability that must be treated or cured.[8]

[quote name='Greg Parker' post='187787' date='Mar 25 2010, 07:08 AM'][quote name='Jack White' post='187641' date='Mar 24 2010, 02:13 PM'][quote name='Kathleen Collins' post='187634' date='Mar 24 2010, 02:30 AM'][quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='187621' date='Mar 24 2010, 02:17 AM']The only source of which I am aware for the information that Lee Harvey Oswald was dyslexic is Judyth Vary Baker.]

Sorry, Professor Fetzer. Norman Mailer wrote about Oswald's dyslexia in his book Oswald's Tale, published in 1995.

And I did respond to Judyth.

Kathy C
[/quote]

Mary Ferrell told me that LHO was dyslexic in 1975. I had to ask what the word meant,
and she explained. Mary discovered it by having read every writing attributed to him.
It is reported in many books.

Jack
[/quote]

This is my one and only entry into this quagmire.

Oswald was never diagnosed as dyslexic. I'd say there was good reason for this: he wasn't. It is primarily a READING disability. Any spelling problems are secondary to that - if they exist at all. A tell-tale sign of dyslexia in adults is avoidance of reading. Does that sound like Oswald to anyone?

In my opinion - and bear in mind that I'm not qualified enough to even legally tie my own shoelaces, so take it as you will - Oswald had Asperger's Syndrome. At least this explains ALL of Oswald's peccadillos - unlike dyslexia which would have to include a problem he did NOT have in order for it to be even a semi-valid diagnosis.

So why wasn't he diagnosed with this syndrome, I hear you cry? Simply because it was not recognised in the US until the '70s.

Any disputes over who stated he had dyslexia first is like wanting to lay claim to being the first to say the beatles would be a flop.

If you want to understand Oswald ( a ) research Asperger's & ( b ) look at the qualities and experiences he had which would make him attractive to certain types running certain operations - and then look at what operations were occuring at certain times which would fit Oswald's movements & actions.
[/quote][/QUOTE]

[James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO LOLA ABOUT PHONE CALLS:

Regarding the phone-calls using mafia-lines I believe intel was also listening to your conversations

==Nope. I have not shown you the call wheel we used...The betting lines I describe were uncovered only after millions of free calls had been made on them! We did have the newspaper article and can find it again, i hope. ==

I showed the call wheel method to "60 Minutes" and wish it would be in the book. Perhaps we can find time sometme to post it on my blog. There was no way anybody would know what pay phone we would be using or at what particlar time...It was pure genius and was invented by the CIA.

Unbreakable.

However, some mafia guy migh a some time have picked up one or more of our conversations...Most mafia were NOT involved with the CIA, though.... Overgeneralizations can lead to thinking that ALL mafia were involved with the CIA, which was never the case.==

JUDYTH REPLIES TO LOLA ABOUT KEEPING SILENT:

Since they had already decided that Lee was going to become the patsy, he probably didn't tell you anything that CIA thought fundamental because you would have been killed.

==Look at it this way -- At the time I was age 20, living in Florida, unable to contact anyone in New Orleans or I'm dead, so I don't. I'm watched over by Giancana to make sure I do not even make any more science classes. Later I was watched over by Harry Ransom to stop me in Texas. Had I spoken of injecting cancers, of bioweapons, of the great Alton Ochsner as having been involved -- who would have believed a word I said?==

ON THE RECORD I WAS A SECRETARY AT REILYS, A COFFEE COMPANY. THE MOST PATRIOTIC COFFEE COMPANY ON EARTH.

AWARE THAT DR. SHERMAN, DAVE FERRIE, MY SISTER AND OTHERS I LOVED WOULD DIE, THEY WATCHED ME AWHILE AND -- THINK OF IT -- I STOPPED ALL CANCER OF MY RESEARCH EFFORTS. ALL OF THEM.

I WANTED TO KILL MYSELF AT FIRST, THEN JUS WENT INTO DEEP DEPRESSON. IT WOULD BE FIVE YEARS BEFORE I HAD A BABY. THAT WAS A LONG TIME FOR PEOPLE IN THE 60'S TO WAIT...

NOBODY WOULD HAVE BELIEVED ME. OCHSNER WAS ALIVE AND WOULD HAVE DENIED ALL....

HECK, DR. SHERMAN AND DAVE WOULD DENY ALL TO SAVE THEIR SKINS.

ALL THAT WOULD HAPPEN IS MY HUSBAND WOULD HAVE DIVORCED ME. MY PARENTS AD BECOME ABUSIVE, MY SISTER WAS NEWLY MARRIED AND HER HUSBAND OUT TO SEA. SHE LIVED WITH SOME FRIEND -- I WAS TRAPPED AND HAD NOWHERE TO GO, NO LIFE, NO FUTURE.

THERE ARE OTHERS WHO KNEW A LOT WHO DID NOT GET SILENCED. DAVE FERRIE KNEW SO MUCH BUT NOT UNTIL 1967 DID THEY FINALLY KILLED HIM -- OF COURSE, THEY SAID IT WAS NATURAL CAUSES.

DEMOHRENSCHILDT LIVED UNTIL HSCA CAME ALONG, THEN HE WAS FOUND WITH A SHOTGUN IN HIS MOUTH AFTER AGREEING TO TALK TO THEM... THOSE WHO TALKED ARE THE ONES WHO GOT KILLED

JVB

JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK (IN PART):

ABOUT THOSE LATE NIGHT PHONE CALLS:

AS FOR THE MAFIA BETTING LINE, WE HAVE NEWSPAPER ARTICLES ABOUT A MASSIVE BETTING RING BEING UNCOVERED...
HERE WAS ONE IN 1957, SOON AFTER THE APPALACHIA MAFIA ROUNDUP::

"About two weeks after that raid, federal agents broke up a Terre Haute, Ind., gambling operation that handled as much as $10 million in bets during a 10-week period. A federal grand jury was convened to investigate the gambling operation. More than 170 people nationwide were subpoenaed, and Ryan was one of them. The investigation uncovered a nationwide telephone betting system that had wagers on everything from college and professional football to the World Series. Bets on single games were as high as $10,000."

http://www.haciendahotsprings.com/RayRyan.htm

THIS 1964 BOOK--MENTIONS MAFIA BETTING LINES...

Organized Crime / U.S.

...There's an entire chain of mini-conspiracies, ... It's about Mafia influence in U.S. business: trucking, garbage, the meat industry, ...This book also offers an introduction to the world of betting lines, odds makers and ...
Montreal: Pocket Books, 1964. 241 pages.

WE HAD ACCESS TO A MAFIA HORSE RACE BETTING LINE WITH SOME SPECIAL PHONE NUMBERS. AS ONE RESEARCHER WHO INVESTIGATED ME (AND THEN BECAME A SUPPORTER) OBSERVED, AFTER TRACING THE PHONE LINE ROUTES, IN NEWSPAPER ARTICLES FROM 1964-1965, "MAYBE THE FBI DIDN'T HEAR THEM TALKING, BUT THE MAFIA COULD." THAT WAS SOMETHING WE'D NEVER CONSIDERED...SO I GUESS MONK IS RIGHT ABOUT 'WISDOM' AFTER ALL....

JVB

[quote name='Jack White' post='187712' date='Mar 24 2010, 08:41 PM']
Thanks for the laundromat information. I had never seen that. As I recall from the DellaRosa forum,
some researcher had researched a possible laundromat and could find none. I cannot remember
the name of the researcher who said there was no laundromat.

I recall that years later when I finally checked out Beckley Street in person, there was a gas station
across from the 1026 rooming house...and no signs of a washateria; the rest was residential.
Perhaps the laundromat was converted later to a gas station. I remember looking on both
Beckley and Zang for a washateria, and could find none...but that was many years later, so it
could have closed.

I also noted that your info said the washateria closed at midnight. As I recall JVB's claim, it was
said to be a 24-hour place, and that the phone calls were often after midnight.

Also, the claim is that somehow a mafia phone line was patched into the pay phone. I cannot
imagine this happening without the knowledge of Southwestern Bell.

Thanks.

Jack

I find the research about the prohibitively high cost of long distance calls from a payphone in a laudromat clear, compelling and checkable.

I'm afraid I don't regard the fact that the Mob ran "a nationwide telephone betting system that had wagers on everything from college and professional football to the World Series" much of a rebuttal.

How did LHO learn of these mafia "free phones"?

Why would LHO have been given access to mafia "free phones" to make long distance love calls? That's not helping the Mob to make money.

[Magda Hassan]

I find the research about the prohibitively high cost of long distance calls from a payphone in a laudromat clear, compelling and checkable.

I'm afraid I don't regard the fact that the Mob ran "a nationwide telephone betting system that had wagers on everything from college and professional football to the World Series" much of a rebuttal.

How did LHO learn of these mafia "free phones"?

Why would LHO have been given access to mafia "free phones" to make long distance love calls? That's not helping the Mob to make money.

FWIW there were betting lines here that worked in a similar way since betting was illegal until the government set up their own betting agency sometime in the mid- late 1960's. Until that time there were extensive betting lines set upall around the country by organised crime and corrupt individuals in the PMG (Post master General which was the only telephone company at that time here) It was a very good earner for the technicians. They were run mostly out of the back of shops or above shops. They would move periodically to avoid detection, mostly from the PMG as the cops were usually paid and on side or turned a blind eye on orders from their 'superiors'. The lines were outside the normal system and one could make calls anywhere all over the country. If one knew some one involved in the system one could also use it for personal matters as long as it wasn't during business times like Saturday races, evening trots or mid week country races or when ever they had the boxing matches on.

While I don't know the particulars of the laundry referred to by Judyth I have no problem with the general scenario of calls being made on such a system. I know that laundries were used here along with delicatessens, butcher, haberdasheries, greengrocers etc.

[James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO KATHLEEN COLLINS:

Judyth, do you remember when you were on Rich's forum and I had just joined, I mentioned that Marina had said, according to Norman Mailer, that Lee had body odor even when he was clean? There was always a smell. And you said that came from the chemicals the two of you were working with?

==NOT CHEMICALS.I SAID IT WAS THE ODOR OF CANCER ITSELF. WE COULD NOT ERADICATE IT. THIS WAS A VERY POWERFUL CANCER...SLICING OPEN MICE TO EXCISE TUMORS RELEASED A DISGUSTING ODOR, IT SEEMED TO SINK INTO OUR SKINS. I TOOK SHOWERS AT NIGHT BECAUSE OF IT. LEE IS REPORTED IN MARINA AND LEE TAKING LONG BATHS EVERY NIGHT, LATER IN THE SUMMER. HE ALSO SUFFERED FROM BURPING, AND NOSEBLEEDS...

YOU WOULD BE SICK TO YOUR STOMACH, TOO, IF YOU DID WHAT WE HAD TO DO. LEE'S NOSEBLEEDS WERE A PLAGUE. TO CLEAN UP, WE USED ALCOHOL, LOTS OF ACETONE, HAD THINGS IN FORMALEDHYDE, KILLED MICE WITH ETHER, WHICH CAUSED OUR NOSEBLEEDS DUE TO DRIED-OUT MUCOUS MEMBRANES==

NOTICED THIS ONLINE:

"Yes some cancers can smell for instance throat cancer my uncle had ,and yes it was a terrible smell coming from his mouth. My mom had breast cancer ,and never went to a doctor so she was basically rotting from the inside out, and that was a really bad rotting smell.."

========================

I don't consider asking you about papyrus off-topic. To me it's an investigation of your claims. If you were to tell a lie in one section of your "story," than you could lie in other areas of your autobiography.

========================

OVERSEAS I HAVE LITTLE 'EVIDENCE,' KATHY, MY LOVELY BOOKS WERE STOLEN OR DESTROYED BY WATER POURED OVER THEM. BUT BE REASONABLE. I LEFT THE MORMON CHURCH AFTER TRANSLATING A PAPYRUS JOSEPH SMITH DID NOT TRANSLATE PROPERLY. I HAD BEEN IN THE CHURCH 17 YEARS. I LEFT HUNDREDS OF CLOSE FRIENDS AND A CHURCH, BY THE WAY, WHO HAD RESPECTED ME AND PLACED ME IN HIGH POSITIONS (FOR A WOMAN), SEVERAL FAMILIES IN THE HOUSON AREA ALSO LEFT THE CHURCH AFTER THEY HEARD ABOUT MY TRANSLATION. THEY KNEW I MADE A DECISION BASED ON MY SRICT ADHERENCE TO THE TRUTH. IT WAS 1986.



HERE, AMONG A FEW THINGS MY SON BROUGHT ME LAST FALL, I DID FIND A SCRAP OF MATHEMATICS I DID IN PTOLEMAIC DYNASTY STYLE HIEROGLYPHS, TO TEACH A SON HOW TO CALCULATE. IT WAS WITH ONE OF HIS OLD PHOTOS......I HAVE A COUPLE PAGES FROM THE INTRODUCTION OF MY HONORS THESIS ABOUT MY PROJECT -- COMPARING EGYPIAN HIEROGLYPH DEVELOPMENT THROUGH HIERATIC AND DEMOTIC FORMS WITH THE EVOLUTION OF AZTEC HIEROGLYPHS, AND THE RELATIONSHIP OF VARIOUS LINGUISTIC DYNAMICS INVOLVED TO THE PHENOMENON OF MURALISMO, WHERE MODERN HIEROGLYPHS ARE BEING CREATED IN LATIN AMERICA. LEE AND I WANTED VERY MUCH TO LIVE IN LATIN AMERICA, AND GEORGE DEMOHRENSCHILDT MENTIONS LEE'S DESIRE TO MAKE THE SAME TREK THERE AS DID GEORGE AND JEANNE ,THROUGH TO MESOAMERICA, ETC.

========================

I do not know if you are being truthful or not, but I've noticed your answers are very well written. I have a suspicion that Jim Fetzer is writing these answers for you.

==I TOLD DR. FETZER THAT TERRIBLE INSULTS WOULD COME HIS WAY IF HE INVESTIGATED ME OPENLY LIKE THIS. OTHERS DID IT SILENTLY AND SAFELY. YOU BLACKEN A FINE MAN'S NAME BY INSINUATING SUCH A HEINOUS THING. THUS, I HAVE DECIDED TO INCLUDE A PAGE OF MY WRITING TO ASSURE YOU OF MY ABILITY TO WRITE FOR MYSELF, KATHY. YOU STATED I MIGHT BE LYING, ABOVE, AND NOW YOU STATE THAT YOU SUSPECT DR. FETZER HAS WRITTEN MATERIAL FOR ME. I SIMPLY GRABBED A PAGE AT RANDOM FROM MY PAPERS. I HAVE PRESENTED PAPERS TO THE MLA [Modern Language Association], TO CONFERENCES IN LITERATURE AND LINGUISTICS, ETC. THIS PAGE IS FROM A PAPER ABOUT JAMES JOYCE AND HOW HIS MEDICAL PROBLEMS IMPACTED ULYSSES.



========================

Not making them up, but editing them because your writing differs here from your writing on Rich's forum. Especially in tone.

========================

I TOLD RICH DELLAROSA THAT I WAS QUITE ILL. HE SAID HE DID NOT BELIEVE ME. I HAD A HEAD INJURY AND BAD SHORT TERM MEMORY PROBLEMS. COULD NOT EVEN COOK FOR MYSELF SAFELY...WAS TRYING TO RECOVER. WAS ON PAINKILLERS AND STEROIDS THAT MADE ME GAIN WEIGHT (HAVE SINCE LOST 50 POUNDS). FOR LEE'S SAKE I TRIED TO ANSWER QUESTIONS BUT WAS IN PAIN. DELLAROSA SAID I WAS 'WELL ENOUGH' TO BE FILMED FOR NIGEL TURNER. MY EYES BLINK CONSTANTLY IN THAT FILM, AS I STRUGGLED WITH PAIN...I HAD BEEN IN MUCH BETTER CONDITION IN 2000 BEFORE BEING HIT TWICE BY VEHICLES IN DALLAS.

========================

Now I want to ask you another question. Some might see it as off-topic, but I don't imho. I hope I don't offend you. On the cover of one of your books -- I think Lee and Me -- there is a sexy picture of you. What were you doing in that photo? Dancing? Entertaining?

========================

IT IS SYMBOLIC OF MY HONESTY, KATHY. I HAD BEEN APPROACHED BY A TABLOID AND OFFERED A LOT OF MONEY (NOTHING LIKE THE RIDICULOUS SUM THEY CLAIM I SAY WAS OFFERED, ON ATTACK WEBSITES). BUT I WAS TEMPTED, SO I CUT THE LEGS OFF THAT PHOTO. MY SISTER AND I HAD AN ACROBATIC ACT WE PUT ON FOR CHARITIES AND TO RAISE FUNDS FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIEY. IT WAS MY COSTUME, KATHY. IN THE BOOK THERE ARE MORE PHOTOS OF ME AND MY SISTER WITH LEOTARDS ON. MY DAD TOOK THE PICTURE.

JVB

[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='187855' date='Mar 25 2010, 10:02 PM']
Kathy, it is no secret that I am correcting typos and making minor formatting changes on Judyth's behalf. You
do understand that she is nearly blind, needs glasses, and is using an old computer with a Hungarian keyboard?
Under these conditions, I believe that it would be very unfair to post her replies absent this kind of minor editing.

If there are differences in tone, they probably result from being so far along in having her book ready, in having
someone who is presenting her on the forum, and having more experience in dealing with these endless attacks.
I don't know Judyth's story, however, and could not possibly make up answers on her behalf even if I wanted to.

Covers of books, by the way, are controlled by publishers, whose decisions are not always affected even by the
preferences of their authors. Judyth can answer, but when they had a sexy shot from her younger days, I would
suppose it would add an additional dimension to the book cover. That is my best guess. Judyth may say more.

[quote name='Kathleen Collins' post='187849' date='Mar 25 2010, 09:38 PM']
Judyth, do you remember when you were on Rich's forum and I had just joined, I mentioned that Marina had said, according to Norman Mailer, that Lee had body odor even when he was clean? There was always a smell. And you said that came from the chemicals the two of you were working with?

I don't consider asking you about papyrus off-topic. To me it's an investigation of your claims. If you were to tell a lie in one section of your "story," than you could lie in other areas of your autobiography.

I do not know if you are being truthful or not, but I've noticed your answers are very well written. I have a suspicion that Jim Fetzer is writing these answers for you. Not making them up, but editing them because your writing differs here from your writing on Rich's forum. Especially in tone.

Now I want to ask you another question. Some might see it as off-topic, but I don't imho. I hope I don't offend you. On the cover of one of your books -- I think Lee and Me -- there is a sexy picture of you. What were you doing in that photo? Dancing? Entertaining?

Kathy C[/quote]
[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH WRITES TO ME ABOUT JACK AND DAVID:

NOTE: I believe powerful confirming evidence for Judyth's story may be found in Anna Lewis' reports of double-dating with Judyth and Lee in New Orleans, Ed Haslam's reports about having met a "Judyth Vary Baker" imposter, and Nigel Turner's documentary, "The Love Affair", which are all archived on my blog, "14 Reasons to Believe in Judyth Vary Baker", http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/03/14...udyth-vary.html .]

Dear Jim--

Please know that I feel terrible about upsetting you or Jack or anyone. I have lost family members over this.

Please remember that history is at stake here. This is why I cannot give up, and I know you are the same way. I will never change. You can trust me.

However, it is painful to see how Jack is reacting. I have thought about it and will share with you what I think we are witnessing:

I found it unsettling that Jack did not notice the 10% distortion in the photos.

This is the very key to his situation.



What this tells us, logically speaking, is that this photo expert did not read any of the articles with the photos that you posted, after (at most) the first few lines.

Why?

Psychologically speaking, this is a case of cognitive dissonance (see below).

Jack avoids reading anything I post. Instead, he posts material he hopes will discredit me. He has to discredit me, Jim. (see below)

If he had read the article he would have known the photo was distorted.

Jack has resorted to a classic avoidance strategy that a person under great concern that he has made a big mistake typically resorts to if he feels it will destroy his reputation/self image/both.

It is so important that I am to be declared a hoax that it is impossible for him to change his mind.

I do not think Jack can help it.

He invested too much, for too long in 'two Oswalds' and Jim, I have not even begin to slice and dice this thing, for I know things he does not and will eventually get to them.



My strength is limited. Today I had another bad nosebleed that lasted for hours. It drains my strength.
I had tubes in my nose for months when a small child and my nasal membranes were badly damaged.

I hold no animosity toward Jack.

The problem we have is that if we present evidence, he is going to look worse and worse. Imagine his problem:
if I am not discredited, no matter what he does, he is discredited.

But the biggest problem is this: the truth must come out.

It is more important than me. It is more important than you ... It is even more important than Jack, and he knows it.

And more and more I blame Armstrong's sloppy research as I probe more into this -- with what I know. John Williams was told some things, so you will understand that I have kept silent on the Harvey and Lee matter for years.

Sadly, here’s what's going on with Jack, or otherwise he would have read the article where he said there was no difference between the two photos (10% distortion, as is caused by copying a copy of a copy of a copy of a photo...etc.)

Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors, or by justifying or rationalizing them.[2] It is one of the most influential and extensively studied theories in social psychology.

Dissonance occurs when a person perceives a logical inconsistency in his beliefs, when one idea implies the opposite of another. The dissonance might be experienced as guilt, anger, frustration, or embarrassment. The idea of "sour grapes"—from the fable The Fox and the Grapes by Aesop (ca. 620-564 BCE), where the fox decides that the grapes he is unable to reach are probably not ripe enough to eat anyway—illustrates an example of cognitive dissonance: desiring something, then criticizing it because it proves unattainable, a phenomenon that Jon Elster calls "adaptive preference formation."[1]



A powerful cause of dissonance is an idea in conflict with a fundamental element of the self-concept, such as "I am a good person" or "I made the right decision". The anxiety that comes with the possibility of having made a bad decision can lead to rationalization, the tendency to create additional reasons or justifications to support one's choices. A person who just spent too much money on a new car might decide that the new vehicle is much less likely to break down than his or her old car. This belief may or may not be true, but it would reduce dissonance and make the person feel better. Dissonance can also lead to confirmation bias, the denial of disconfirming evidence, and other ego defense mechanisms.

I'm sorry, Jim.

I had to show Greg Parker he was wrong about dyslexia and reading disabilities...We have to get to the truth, and Greg was wrong. I would not have brought it up if it were a matter of dispute. Lee and I discussed it on the basis of published journal articles, therefore, I was comfortable to bring it up. Greg said it was the 1970's, etc. And Asperger's as well--which you correctly identified as most improbable--again saves Lee Oswald's personality from being skewed from the truth.

This is why I chose to write the book in dialogue.

I have hope because you're the most intelligent researcher I've ever dealt with.

And even though it hurts -- I have lost two sons, my profession, my health over this. I pray Jack will
change, but I believe it is impossible...

Unfortunately for me and for the truth, Jack will have motivation to spread untruths about me everywhere, to stop his panic. Otherwise, he feels his reputation has been destroyed.

According to the theory, he will exit from the thread, retreating before he looks worse, but privately, he will go into action. He will circulate bad things about me to rescue his reputation. The theory suggests active campaign against me.

He is incapable of changing.

The one small hope is that he will view the documentary and will decide to call a truce. If he is capable of reading the information which he has avoided and will face it, if he is a great man, he will apologize and look honestly at everything.

But he is getting older and has used up so much energy; he may not have the strength to go through it all again.

This is why Lifton attacked me -- hoping he would not have to rewrite his book.

You have taken on a massive undertaking, but I assure you, I will not let you down.

You will end up being able to see clearly -- just as you do with the Zapruder film .

JVB

[Jack White]

Baloney.

JUDYTH WRITES TO ME ABOUT JACK AND DAVID:

NOTE: I believe powerful confirming evidence for Judyth's story may be found in Anna Lewis' reports of double-dating with Judyth and Lee in New Orleans, Ed Haslam's reports about having met a "Judyth Vary Baker" imposter, and Nigel Turner's documentary, "The Love Affair", which are all archived on my blog, "14 Reasons to Believe in Judyth Vary Baker", http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/03/14...udyth-vary.html .]

Dear Jim--

Please know that I feel terrible about upsetting you or Jack or anyone. I have lost family members over this.

Please remember that history is at stake here. This is why I cannot give up, and I know you are the same way. I will never change. You can trust me.

However, it is painful to see how Jack is reacting. I have thought about it and will share with you what I think we are witnessing:

I found it unsettling that Jack did not notice the 10% distortion in the photos.

This is the very key to his situation.



What this tells us, logically speaking, is that this photo expert did not read any of the articles with the photos that you posted, after (at most) the first few lines.

Why?

Psychologically speaking, this is a case of cognitive dissonance (see below).

Jack avoids reading anything I post. Instead, he posts material he hopes will discredit me. He has to discredit me, Jim. (see below)

If he had read the article he would have known the photo was distorted.

Jack has resorted to a classic avoidance strategy that a person under great concern that he has made a big mistake typically resorts to if he feels it will destroy his reputation/self image/both.

It is so important that I am to be declared a hoax that it is impossible for him to change his mind.

I do not think Jack can help it.

He invested too much, for too long in 'two Oswalds' and Jim, I have not even begin to slice and dice this thing, for I know things he does not and will eventually get to them.



My strength is limited. Today I had another bad nosebleed that lasted for hours. It drains my strength.
I had tubes in my nose for months when a small child and my nasal membranes were badly damaged.

I hold no animosity toward Jack.

The problem we have is that if we present evidence, he is going to look worse and worse. Imagine his problem:
if I am not discredited, no matter what he does, he is discredited.

But the biggest problem is this: the truth must come out.

It is more important than me. It is more important than you ... It is even more important than Jack, and he knows it.

And more and more I blame Armstrong's sloppy research as I probe more into this -- with what I know. John Williams was told some things, so you will understand that I have kept silent on the Harvey and Lee matter for years.

Sadly, here’s what's going on with Jack, or otherwise he would have read the article where he said there was no difference between the two photos (10% distortion, as is caused by copying a copy of a copy of a copy of a photo...etc.)

Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors, or by justifying or rationalizing them.[2] It is one of the most influential and extensively studied theories in social psychology.

Dissonance occurs when a person perceives a logical inconsistency in his beliefs, when one idea implies the opposite of another. The dissonance might be experienced as guilt, anger, frustration, or embarrassment. The idea of "sour grapes"—from the fable The Fox and the Grapes by Aesop (ca. 620-564 BCE), where the fox decides that the grapes he is unable to reach are probably not ripe enough to eat anyway—illustrates an example of cognitive dissonance: desiring something, then criticizing it because it proves unattainable, a phenomenon that Jon Elster calls "adaptive preference formation."[1]



A powerful cause of dissonance is an idea in conflict with a fundamental element of the self-concept, such as "I am a good person" or "I made the right decision". The anxiety that comes with the possibility of having made a bad decision can lead to rationalization, the tendency to create additional reasons or justifications to support one's choices. A person who just spent too much money on a new car might decide that the new vehicle is much less likely to break down than his or her old car. This belief may or may not be true, but it would reduce dissonance and make the person feel better. Dissonance can also lead to confirmation bias, the denial of disconfirming evidence, and other ego defense mechanisms.

I'm sorry, Jim.

I had to show Greg Parker he was wrong about dyslexia and reading disabilities...We have to get to the truth, and Greg was wrong. I would not have brought it up if it were a matter of dispute. Lee and I discussed it on the basis of published journal articles, therefore, I was comfortable to bring it up. Greg said it was the 1970's, etc. And Asperger's as well--which you correctly identified as most improbable--again saves Lee Oswald's personality from being skewed from the truth.

This is why I chose to write the book in dialogue.

I have hope because you're the most intelligent researcher I've ever dealt with.

And even though it hurts -- I have lost two sons, my profession, my health over this. I pray Jack will
change, but I believe it is impossible...

Unfortunately for me and for the truth, Jack will have motivation to spread untruths about me everywhere, to stop his panic. Otherwise, he feels his reputation has been destroyed.

According to the theory, he will exit from the thread, retreating before he looks worse, but privately, he will go into action. He will circulate bad things about me to rescue his reputation. The theory suggests active campaign against me.

He is incapable of changing.

The one small hope is that he will view the documentary and will decide to call a truce. If he is capable of reading the information which he has avoided and will face it, if he is a great man, he will apologize and look honestly at everything.

But he is getting older and has used up so much energy; he may not have the strength to go through it all again.

This is why Lifton attacked me -- hoping he would not have to rewrite his book.

You have taken on a massive undertaking, but I assure you, I will not let you down.

You will end up being able to see clearly -- just as you do with the Zapruder film .

JVB

[James H. Fetzer]

Possible real reasons for the long term surveillance and Psyops of Judyth Vary?

If anyone wants to know you have my permission to tell them your "psyops expert" is now
partly retired, has a Ph.D. from a big ten University, is a Psychologist Emeritus who was
in private practice for over 35 years, retired his licenses in psychology and marriage &
family therapy recently; has worked with quite a few intel victims over the years and
some in the business too; has done various types of consulting which included consulting
to medical facilities and other businesses, managed several businesses over the years;
and did extensive participant observation research in these matters and others along the
way.

The real reasons for the long term surveillance and Psyops of Judyth Vary?

Jim, I re-though the whole Judyth Vary matter and had a new idea of what may be the real
reason she has been so harassed for so many years. I may be completely off base but
consider this. You may want to share this with Judyth and she what she thinks. This
came to me after many different evaluations and consideration of almost every possible
scenario based on what I know so far. Maybe once Judyth's book is out and I buy a copy
and read it I can figure a better explanation, but I doubt it.

I think Oshner selected Judyth as a young recruit because he found out about her
exceptional intelligence, her creativity and research gifts and because he felt certain
she would be highly loyal and also very deniable as a bioweapon expert if she was able to
succeed in development of that bioweapon to get Castro and other "enemies of the state"
as he expected her to be able to.

Was it his relative who got cancer from the SV-40 viral fragment contaminants in polio
vaccine or someone else close? Most likely a bifurcated agenda was developed for Judyth
sometime after her work for Oschner began. Perhaps he wanted her to help with the
development of the bio weapon as an assassination tool, but also developed an interest in
using her to assist him in finding a fix for the SV-40 problem, which he was perhaps very
concerned about once he understood its serious ramifications.

It is possible that Judyth actually discovered a cure without realizing it and either
told oschner or someone else close who talked. The company is known for using close
surveillance teams and informants close by on high priority cases, and this would likely
have been done with Oschner, Oswald, Mary Sherman, David Ferrie and others who were
associated.

Perhaps Oschner got the message when Mary Sherman was electrocuted at the lab. Maybe it
was met for him. Could he have decided to set aside any concerns for the SV-40 problems,
since he never took a stand publicly and exposed the horrendous seriousness of this
problem and he seemed to shifted into other matters. Perhaps he understood that he must
avoid the sv-40 matter and maybe he was told to just let it go, that it would be much
better for him if he steered clear of this, that perhaps it was being handled by other
researchers on a secret project, etc.

Could a major agreement between intel, big pharma and government planners emerged to
keep the monkey kidney cell lines that con tained SV-40 fragments growing into perpetuity
with these being used in the manufacture of almost all vaccines in order to further
eugenics, and keep big medicine and big pharma in the very lucrative business fighting
cancers caused by the SV-40 virus fragments, which has included massive amounts of money
spent on medical services and hospitalizations, production and sale of chemotherapy
agents which is also extremely lucrative?

Oschner's importance to the company appears to have diminished quickly as soon as there
was a change of plans, that JFK had to be hit to solve the LBJ/Fed Reserve/Vietnam/Cuban
"problems". Typically the company runs parallel programs to cover any and all
contingencies and selects the one that best fits their needs overall at a particular
time, based on how the total situation develops.

I think it was decided that Oschner's bioweapons program would be abandoned as a solution
to the JFK problem, sidetracked and taken over and absorbed by the DOD (Plum Island,
Dugway Proving Grounds, and eventually the Fort Detrick army biological weapons lab).

I think they likely saw Oschner as a possible security risk and had other plans for the
technology he developed regarding cancer as a bioweapon. Plus they decided to put him to
pasture in cancer society maintenance functions perhaps. I think the bioweapons issue
became so promising that it was decided that civilians like Oschner, even though he had
worked with intel for years, could not give the work enough special attention and would
balk at illegal, deadly covert experiments against large numbers of humans (which wa done
in Korea, Vietnam, and allegedly both Irag wars).

So, maybe Judyth discovered a cure for the SV-40 problem or else discovered an
application or necessary technology to be able to easily do that. I think she doesn't
realize the importance of what she did discover, and sinister forces have been assigned
to birdog her ever since Dealey Plaza to make sure she never put it all together and
shared it with legitimate cancer researchers around the world and the public.

Jim, it seems to me that only something like this would adequately provide a reason for
all the long term surveillance, stalking and hard core, heavy muscle psyops that have
been brought against her. This kind of intel work is expensive and no agency would spend
that much unless it was important. Another possibility is that that the intel work was
privatized to intel departments of a large corporations (this is commonly done these days
and makes deniability and cover much easier.

FURTHER REFLECTIONS:

Jim, part of any cure for many cancers would be first exposing the SV-40 problem world
wide, developing new cell lines for growing vaccines, and making clean vaccines, and
compensating victims through class action lawsuits, like the asbestos problem was taken
care of. (This thinking would quickly lead to the scientists and public wanting all
contaminants removed, especially the Thimerosal "preservative" (50% ethyl mercury, the
worst form of mercury, worse than methyl mercury.)

The other part would be developing the actual treatments to cure cancer, and this could
also in involve the use of good nutrition, nutritional supplements, etc. along with
advanced technology that Judyth perhaps could have been aware of or close to discovering
or would have discovered (or at least that is what intel thought, whether it was
privatized or run out of DOD or Langley or somewhere else inside the us govt.)

The other big issue that is related, is why did the "big boys" in the shadow govt decide
to stop trying to assassinate Castro and instead decide to murder JFK. Well, it is known
that the big boys that ran the shadow govt were into "playing all sides against the
middle", i.e., "perfidious albion" style. It is also known that someone at the highest
levels always tipped Castro off in advance of any plot to assassinate him by any means.
It is also known that he was a member of the council on foreign relations and it has
been rumored that the catholic church was protecting him.

I think the highest controllers in the shadow govt realized that their main concern
overall was "war profiteering" and that they were committed to controlled, limited police
action wars to obtain that, ie perpetual wars, and these would be done by agreement
between all parties, including the enemy. Look at the "Iron Mountain Report" to
understand their thinking. They wanted perpetual, limited war to sell war products, but
they did not want a nuclear WW3.

But in order to do this they had to somehow appease the US military high command, some of
whom were "rabid dogs" who wanted war with the soviets, even nuclear, and even a first
exchange following a staged, inside job supposed nuclear first strike by the soviets. So
the best solution for everyone including J. Edgar Mary and LBJ would be to assassinate
JFK using a military style triangulated hit done by Op-40 (many of which were Cubans
training to retake Cuba) and this Op-40 was a version of room 40 in England during WW2).

So the decision was made to abandon Ochsner's plan of assassinating Castro with the
cancer weapon. And the shadow govt had already come to the conclusion Castro could be
used for their own war profiteering purposes. He could be used to keep the cold war
scare going as means of obtaining plenty of defense funding from congress and the
American people. So Castro once again became our "bad boy" in Cuba, only this time he
was consorting with the Soviets.

[David Healy]

...

How did LHO learn of these mafia "free phones"?

Why would LHO have been given access to mafia "free phones" to make long distance love calls? That's not helping the Mob to make money.

I believe LHO's step father was involved in the mob numbers racket in New Orleans, which was 'somehow' linked to the mob heirarchy in Dallas... FWIW