John Kowalski Wrote:I watched the video, I did not see the slight move forward and to the right that you mentioned. However, for the sake of argument, if he did move as you say he did, a shot from the rear and to the left can hardly explain the brain matter poring out of the right hand side of his head and the left part of his skull that was blown out by the shot. It doesn't make sense that most of his movements clearly reflect a shot from the grassy knoll while a slight movement is seen as proof that the shot came form the rear.
John
I can't see how a shot from in front of and to JFK's right - e.g. from the grassy knoll - can make his skull and brain matter fold over and spill down the right side of his head like it does. I'm talking about a shot from behind JFK and from JFK's left, i.e. a shot passing over the left rear corner of the car before it hits JFK.
I'm not trying to convince people that there were no shooters from the front, I'm just trying to make sense of what I'm seeing when I look at the footage.
I'd really like to see them, because I can only see a red mist in front of Jackie's collar area in frame 313 on the youtube I'm looking at.
Ah yes the red mist in Z-313, which is suspiciously absent in Z-314, which underscores the obvious fact that those frame were altered.
Assassination Science houses my favorite evidence of the tampering. And the disappearance of the red mist in a fraction of a second is a clincher: http://www.assassinationscience.com/john...blood.html
No way that could happen in real life, or real death. That blood should have been visible for many frames after 313.
I attached frames 313, 314, 315. I also attached the blood graph. All of the pix are from Assassination Science. Here is the accompanying text from Assassination Science:
"On the previous page we looked at David Lifton’s discovery, back in the 1960s, that the wound to JFK’s head shown on the Zapruder film is a fake. More recently, scientists have discovered that there is something else about the shot to JFK’s head on the forged film that is fake—and can be proved to be fake: the spray of blood that appears at the moment he is shot.
Film experts had noted that the “blood spray” in Frame 313 looks like it has been “painted on” and then exposed onto a genuine strip of film:
[Z-313 photo]
But what tells us that this “blood” is fake is the fact that it disappears into thin air!
If it was real, the “blood” should spread out in the frames after Frame 313, and then land on people or objects in the car. But within a couple of frames, it disappears altogether:
[Z-314, Z-315 photos]
Scientists were able to test whether the blood really did disappear. They analyzed the film frames around the shot to JFK’s head:
[More photos]
Every color picture can be broken down into red, green, and blue light. (If you look closely at your TV, you can see the little red, green and blue lights!) The total red, green, and blue light in each of the frames was measured by computer, and put onto a graph:
[Blood graph]
The graphs show that the “spray” disappears within three frames, or one-sixth of a second. This can’t happen!"
I'd really like to see them, because I can only see a red mist in front of Jackie's collar area in frame 313 on the youtube I'm looking at.
Ah yes the red mist in Z-313, which is suspiciously absent in Z-314, which underscores the obvious fact that those frame were altered.
Assassination Science houses my favorite evidence of the tampering. And the disappearance of the red mist in a fraction of a second is a clincher: http://www.assassinationscience.com/john...blood.html
No way that could happen in real life, or real death. That blood should have been visible for many frames after 313.
I attached frames 313, 314, 315. I also attached the blood graph. All of the pix are from Assassination Science. Here is the accompanying text from Assassination Science:
"On the previous page we looked at David Lifton’s discovery, back in the 1960s, that the wound to JFK’s head shown on the Zapruder film is a fake. More recently, scientists have discovered that there is something else about the shot to JFK’s head on the forged film that is fake—and can be proved to be fake: the spray of blood that appears at the moment he is shot.
Film experts had noted that the “blood spray” in Frame 313 looks like it has been “painted on” and then exposed onto a genuine strip of film:
[Z-313 photo]
But what tells us that this “blood” is fake is the fact that it disappears into thin air!
If it was real, the “blood” should spread out in the frames after Frame 313, and then land on people or objects in the car. But within a couple of frames, it disappears altogether:
[Z-314, Z-315 photos]
Scientists were able to test whether the blood really did disappear. They analyzed the film frames around the shot to JFK’s head:
[More photos]
Every color picture can be broken down into red, green, and blue light. (If you look closely at your TV, you can see the little red, green and blue lights!) The total red, green, and blue light in each of the frames was measured by computer, and put onto a graph:
[Blood graph]
The graphs show that the “spray” disappears within three frames, or one-sixth of a second. This can’t happen!"
The first thing that comes to my mind is that the car is travelling at a significant number of feet per second, and in the time between frames 313 and 314, the car has moved forward, the blood mist has decelerated (as soon as it parts from Kennedy into the air, the mist is being slowed by the friction caused by having to pass through the air), and a lot of the mist may have landed on Kennedy as he kept moving forward with the car, an a lot of it would have been left behind in the air the car had already passed through. It certainly doesn't immediately strike me as definitely being an impossibly fast dispersion of the mist.
The first thing that comes to my mind is that the car is travelling at a significant number of feet per second, and in the time between frames 313 and 314, the car has moved forward, the blood mist has decelerated (as soon as it parts from Kennedy into the air, the mist is being slowed by the friction caused by having to pass through the air), and a lot of the mist may have landed on Kennedy as he kept moving forward with the car, an a lot of it would have been left behind in the air the car had already passed through. It certainly doesn't immediately strike me as definitely being an impossibly fast dispersion of the mist.
Good try Peter but it's common knowledge, easily found in many books and many websites, that the limo slowed dramatically, and probably stopped, before the kill shots.
Here's a quote from James Fetzer:
"Yes, it slowed dramatically as it came to a complete stop. The evidence is abundant and compelling. Farting around with a fabricated film and treating it solemnly as though finding some minor slowing would vindicate its authenticity is entering the theatre of the absurd. Just get ahold of THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX AND STUDY IT! This pretentious ignorance of the alteration of the film is beyond silly. This is a huge distraction and massively misleading. Do you really know no better?" http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....6330&st=15
I can understand the apparent frustration in his answer because certain facts have been long established in this case, and spinning our wheels reproving these facts is not a good use of time, energy and bandwidth.
I've finished Doug Horne, Inside the ARRB, Volumes I-V. His “The Great Zapruder Film Mystery” in Volume IV, pages 1185-1377 is a compelling case for alteration.
I have ordered Jim Fetzer's Murder in Dealey Plaza with highly-recommended sections on Zapruder and the medical evidence as well.
Jim Fetzer's Assassination Science (1998) contains a powerful multi-chapter address of Zapruder—as well as the great David Mantik deconstruction of the x-rays using his radiodensitometry method.
Noel Twyman's Bloody Treason (1997) has much to say about Zapruder.
The preponderance of witness testimony describes an occipital wound resulting from a frontal shot which caused the back-and-to-the-left motion Bill Hicks refers to above.
The instant dissipation of the ejecta from this is additive to the jet-black trapezoid with remarkably sharp edges covering the rear defect.
Maybe Oswald wasn't a dangle who got into the Soviet Union via a Swiss College so outre it eluded detection by intelligence agencies—or maybe he was a patsy who never touched the alleged instrument of assassination.
The great Bill Hicks.
The only stand up comic willing to touch the subject of the JFK assassination.
He died quite young too. Normally that would make my antennae go up but he also smoked like a chimney. Regardless, I sure do miss him.
Bullets do strange things. Right now, I think the Zapruder film is legit. I think a bullet from the Grassy Knoll sliced through JFK's skull, opening it like a Zip-Lock bag. It is perfectly possible for that blood spray to come from a frontal ENTRANCE WOUND. There is a lot of blood pressure in the head, like a volcano of blood waiting to explode. I see a big flap of JFK's skull fall down on his right side.
I do think there was a big wound going out the back side of his head, due to the MASSIVE amount of witnesses to that effect.
Myra Bronstein Wrote:Good try Peter but it's common knowledge, easily found in many books and many websites, that the limo slowed dramatically, and probably stopped, before the kill shots.
Here's a quote from James Fetzer:
"Yes, it slowed dramatically as it came to a complete stop. The evidence is abundant and compelling. Farting around with a fabricated film and treating it solemnly as though finding some minor slowing would vindicate its authenticity is entering the theatre of the absurd. Just get ahold of THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX AND STUDY IT! This pretentious ignorance of the alteration of the film is beyond silly. This is a huge distraction and massively misleading. Do you really know no better?" http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....6330&st=15
I can understand the apparent frustration in his answer because certain facts have been long established in this case, and spinning our wheels reproving these facts is not a good use of time, energy and bandwidth.
I read on that education forum thread that someone (Alvarez) calculated that the car slowed from 12mph to 8mph. These are very low numbers/slow speeds - any competent marksman shooting from somewhere either in front or behind surely would not require any slower speeds than that to ensure a successful hit - yet 12mph is still 18 feet per second; 8mph is 12 feet per second. In a sixth of a second at 8mph the car has travelled 2 feet. That would seem to be enough movement to make the mist of blood disappear from one frame to the next, I would have thought, especially given the poor overall quality of the film. At the very least, the "disappearing" mist of blood doesn't seem to be a convincing piece of evidence that the footage has been tampered with.
This thread is about considering the possibility that the Z film is authentic, and while I may well follow people's advice to go away and read this or that book about how the Z film is a hoax, I'd prefer it if on this thread each specific hoax claim were outlined one by one, with supporting evidence, so it can become a useful part of the discussion, rather than a conversation stopper.
The great Bill Hicks.
The only stand up comic willing to touch the subject of the JFK assassination.
He died quite young too. Normally that would make my antennae go up but he also smoked like a chimney. Regardless, I sure do miss him.
After seeing this Bill Hicks piece (warning: it's very very rude!), I joined those who suspected that he was assassinated by a fancy CIA poison.
Back in the olden days, in the early nineties, most people didn't have access to assassination footage like we do, or the means to view it dozens of times, blown up and stabilized, etc, so though his intuituon was headed in the right direction about the assassination, I don't think his should be the last word on what actually happened.
(See how we arrive back at our present contradictory situation?: half the people saying "look at the Z film - back and to the left! - it proves there was a conspiracy!" and the other half saying "the Z film was a fake - that it was a fake proves there was a conspiracy!")
