New COMMANDER W.B.PITZER PAGE WITH FULL FBI FILE

[Allan Eaglesham]

Allan, et al,

Herein lies the conundrum presented knowingly and with relish by "Albert Doyle"-like entities.

To ignore their coordinated efforts to disinform is to provide safe havens for their lies and sophistries and other provocations.

To respond without acknowledging their true agendas is to support their efforts by supporting the illusion that their points are, if not sound, then at least honorably offered.

To expose and excoriate them, as I and a handful of others continue to do, is to risk estrangement from true allies and friends who cannot or will not acknowledge the ongoing hostile operations.

The only effective courses of action available to us are to expose the "Doyles" wherever and whenever they appear and then ban those identities from forum access.

I understand that they will keep coming.

They should understand that we'll be waiting for them.

"Albert Doyle" is not the first agent provocateur to penetrate DPF. "He" will not be the last.

So be it.

In closing, a simple question:

Are there any DPF members willing to come forward to argue for the legitimacy of "Albert Doyle"?

Charles:

A conundrum it is.

I think that the best thing is to -- whenever possible -- expose the disinformation, e.g. regarding his silly reference to "the" movie film having been secreted in the ceiling of the TV studio in which William Pitzer's body was found. "Doyle" will probably ignore my point and/or shift the goalposts, as he has done consistently in this thread. However, those looking over our shoulders may see the repeating pattern of his behavior.

[LR Trotter]

As I recall, my first knowledge about the death of William Bruce Pitzer was aquired by watching the TV series, The Men Who Killed Kennedy, during the '90s. So, I believe it was the Dennis David commentary that indicated WBP's death was a homicide, as presented on the TMWKK broadcast. But, I have to wonder if DD's determined supposition that WBP was left-handed was because of the way WBP dealt cards while playing bridge, or did he mention any other indications? I am right-handed, and very dominatedly so. In my much younger days, I spent some years as a truck driver, and I can't even imagine the difficulty constantly going through those 13 gears if I had been left-handed. Especially considering the short hauls that were basically countywide and into neighboring counties delivering a very perishable product. I have never played bridge, but a very popular pastime among the truck drivers between loads was playing poker. Small pots of course, but a day's pay could be won or lost in a short period of time. But, without even thinking about it, when I was the dealer, without fail I dealt left-handed. Had it not been for the comments from the other players, I might not have noticed it myself. I might add, for me the card dealing being two handed, it was easier to hold the deck with my dominate right hand and deal with the left. But, I seem to believe I had read later accounts about WBP's death that caused considerable doubt that it was a homicide, IMO. Based on what I have now read, it appears to have been suicide, but again, JMO. And, whether an accident, a homicide, or a suicide, I don't see WBP's death having any impact on the murder of John Fitzgerald Kennedy, but I do wish for justice.

:nosmilie:

[Allan Eaglesham]

As I recall, my first knowledge about the death of William Bruce Pitzer was aquired by watching the TV series, The Men Who Killed Kennedy, during the '90s. So, I believe it was the Dennis David commentary that indicated WBP's death was a homicide, as presened on the TMWKK broadcast. But, I have to wonder if DD's determined supposition that WBP was left-handed was because of the way WBP dealt cards while playing bridge, or did he mention any other indications? I am right-handed, and very dominatedly so. In my much younger days, I spent some years as a truck driver, and I can't even imagine the difficulty constantly going through those 13 gears if I had been left-handed. Especially considering the short hauls that were basically countywide and into neighboring counties delivering a very perishable product. I have never played bridge, but a very popular pastime among the truck drivers between loads was playing poker. Small pots of course, but a day's pay could be won or lost in a short period of time. But, without even thinking about it, when I was the dealer, without fail I dealt left-handed. Had it not been for the comments from the other players, I might not have noticed it myself. I might add, for me the card dealing being two handed, it was easier to hold the deck with my dominate right hand and deal with the left. But, I seem to believe I had read later accounts about WBP's death that caused considerable doubt that it was a homicide, IMO. Based on what I have now read, it appears to have been suicide, but again, JMO. And, whether an accident, a homicide, or a suicide, I don't see WBP's death having any impact on the murder of John Fitzgerald Kennedy, but I do wish for justice.

:nosmilie:

Larry:

There follows an excerpt from [URL="http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Pitzer/Article-8.html:"]

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Pitzer/Article-8.html[/URL]

>The source of greatest confusion in this case is the misconception that William Pitzer was left-handed. When Dennis David, a bridge partner of Pitzer's, learned of his friend's death of a gunshot wound to the right temple, he immediately doubted the official verdict of suicide because he had a strong memory of Pitzer dealing cards with his left hand. However, in a January 29, 1995, telephone call to Mrs. Pitzer, Dan Marvin asked, "Was he -- was Bill -- right-handed or left-handed?" To which she replied, "He was right-handed." In response, Marvin said in confirmation, "Right-handed." I have confirmed that William Pitzer was right-handed with two other members of the family and a colleague, himself left-handed, who saw Pitzer sign his name on many occasions. Author Harrison Livingstone has contributed to the confusion. In his book High Treason 2, he chose, like Marvin in this documentary, to give more weight to how William Pitzer dealt cards than to what he was told by Mrs. Pitzer. In HT2, Livingstone wrote, "Dennis David...states that Pitzer was left-handed," whereas his earlier book High Treason (co-authored with Robert Groden) states, "His widow said...he was right-handed."<

[LR Trotter]

Thanks Mr Eaglesham. I had read High Treason and High Treason 2, but it has been awhile. And, just last Tuesday, my xxxxxxxx, I mean MSContin, dosage was increased, so some things I need reminders of. But, I believe I read those books when fairly new.

[Allan Eaglesham]

As I recall, my first knowledge about the death of William Bruce Pitzer was aquired by watching the TV series, The Men Who Killed Kennedy, during the '90s. So, I believe it was the Dennis David commentary that indicated WBP's death was a homicide, as presened on the TMWKK broadcast. But, I have to wonder if DD's determined supposition that WBP was left-handed was because of the way WBP dealt cards while playing bridge, or did he mention any other indications? I am right-handed, and very dominatedly so. In my much younger days, I spent some years as a truck driver, and I can't even imagine the difficulty constantly going through those 13 gears if I had been left-handed. Especially considering the short hauls that were basically countywide and into neighboring counties delivering a very perishable product. I have never played bridge, but a very popular pastime among the truck drivers between loads was playing poker. Small pots of course, but a day's pay could be won or lost in a short period of time. But, without even thinking about it, when I was the dealer, without fail I dealt left-handed. Had it not been for the comments from the other players, I might not have noticed it myself. I might add, for me the card dealing being two handed, it was easier to hold the deck with my dominate right hand and deal with the left. But, I seem to believe I had read later accounts about WBP's death that caused considerable doubt that it was a homicide, IMO. Based on what I have now read, it appears to have been suicide, but again, JMO. And, whether an accident, a homicide, or a suicide, I don't see WBP's death having any impact on the murder of John Fitzgerald Kennedy, but I do wish for justice.

:nosmilie:

Larry:

There follows an excerpt from [URL="http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Pitzer/Article-8.html:"]

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Pitzer/Article-8.html[/URL]

>The source of greatest confusion in this case is the misconception that William Pitzer was left-handed. When Dennis David, a bridge partner of Pitzer's, learned of his friend's death of a gunshot wound to the right temple, he immediately doubted the official verdict of suicide because he had a strong memory of Pitzer dealing cards with his left hand. However, in a January 29, 1995, telephone call to Mrs. Pitzer, Dan Marvin asked, "Was he -- was Bill -- right-handed or left-handed?" To which she replied, "He was right-handed." In response, Marvin said in confirmation, "Right-handed." I have confirmed that William Pitzer was right-handed with two other members of the family and a colleague, himself left-handed, who saw Pitzer sign his name on many occasions. Author Harrison Livingstone has contributed to the confusion. In his book High Treason 2, he chose, like Marvin in this documentary, to give more weight to how William Pitzer dealt cards than to what he was told by Mrs. Pitzer. In HT2, Livingstone wrote, "Dennis David...states that Pitzer was left-handed," whereas his earlier book High Treason (co-authored with Robert Groden) states, "His widow said...he was right-handed."<

Sorry if that link doesn't work. It doesn't work for me directly. It does work if it's pasted into my browser.

Allan

[Albert Doyle]

Maybe in the ceiling above the step ladder? I wonder where that came from -- perhaps an old man who had long ago lost contact with reality?:

Allan, you're not seriously offering that stuff as proof against the Douglass version? I read your Martin Hay-like offerings and they seem to me to be defense lawyer-type nitpicking and character attacks that doesn't come anywhere close to disproving the Douglass version. Seems to me like you have quotes showing there were witnesses to Pitzer having possession of films that showed wounds contrary to the Commission's evidence. I also find it wrong to speak of Dan Marvin that way when he is mostly-likely a hero who came forward and told the truth about critical evidence. I actually take offense to it from someone who poses themselves as a conspiracy exposer. Which is my main problem with the now-disappeared Jim. Jim said to turn it over to Allan. Allan hasn't offered anything. I'm failing to see how Pitzer's murder doesn't dovetail completely with other murders of JFK assassination witnesses? Those parsing corrections don't overturn the obvious truth you yourself have shown. What kills me about this is how Jim doesn't realize he is taking the position of those who attacked Garrison in this case.

[Allan Eaglesham]

Maybe in the ceiling above the step ladder? I wonder where that came from -- perhaps an old man who had long ago lost contact with reality?:

Allan, you're not seriously offering that stuff as proof against the Douglass version? I read your Martin Hay-like offerings and they seem to me to be defense lawyer-type nitpicking and character attacks that doesn't come anywhere close to disproving the Douglass version. Seems to me like you have quotes showing there were witnesses to Pitzer having possession of films that showed wounds contrary to the Commission's evidence. I also find it wrong to speak of Dan Marvin that way when he is mostly-likely a hero who came forward and told the truth about critical evidence. I actually take offense to it from someone who poses themselves as a conspiracy exposer. Which is my main problem with the now-disappeared Jim. Jim said to turn it over to Allan. Allan hasn't offered anything. I'm failing to see how Pitzer's murder doesn't dovetail completely with other murders of JFK assassination witnesses? Those parsing corrections don't overturn the obvious truth you yourself have shown. What kills me about this is how Jim doesn't realize he is taking the position of those who attacked Garrison in this case.

An excerpt follows from

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/PitzerFiles/

----

CAVEAT LECTOR
The books mentioned already [5] deal briefly with LCDR Pitzer's death from a pro-homicide persective. In 1995, ex-Green Beret Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Marvin authored an article in the JFK-research journal The Fourth Decade in which he claimed to have been solicited, in 1965, by a CIA agent to assassinate William Pitzer [6].A more comprehensive treatment of the case by author Kent Heiner [7] also takes a pro-murder stance, with emphasis on Daniel Marvin and his claim that he was asked, but refused, to "terminate" Pitzer. The sixth edition of the television series The Men Who Killed Kennedy includes a segment on Pitzer's death and Marvin's claim [8]. Another made-for-television documentary, which hasn't been shown in the United States, Kennedy's Assassination: 13th Version, also includes a segment on Pitzer with an interview with Marvin; it contains several inaccuracies [9]. All of these treatments of the case suffer similarly: none draws on the evidence in the death-scene and autopsy photographs. Several of them are based on the errant assumption that William Pitzer was left-handed.
A recent discussion of the Pitzer case, and Daniel Marvin's claimed role, is in JFK and the Unspeakable [10]. The five-page treatment is firmly pro-homicide. In this otherwise excellent treatise on the Kennedy assassination, author James Douglass chooses to ignore the most recent forensic evidence and emphasizes the Marvin component. Although Douglass makes several references to William Law's book, In the Eye of History [11], the pro-suicide content in the appendix of that book is passed over.

SYNTHESIS
In a discussion of the "putative" Pitzer movie of the autopsy on President Kennedy's body, I made a case for it being generated via a closed-circuit television feed from Walter Reed Hospital [12]. Since then, new appraisals of the available evidence -- from James Rinnovatore [13, 14] and Doug Horne [15] -- suggest that alterations of President Kennedy's wounds occurred at Bethesda Naval Hospital. Although the available evidence suggests that William Pitzer killed himself, it is possible that he was responsible for recording on film the pre-autopsy on President Kennedy's body [16].


[7] Heiner K (2004) Without Smoking Gun. Walterville, OR: Trine Day.
[8] The Men Who Killed Kennedy Part 6. Here.
[9] Eaglesham A (2004) Coverage of the Pitzer case in the Documentary Kennedy's Assassination: 13th Version. Here.
[10] Douglass JW (2008) JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters. Maryknoll, NY: Orbis.
[11] Law WM Eaglesham A (2004) In the Eye of History. Southlake, TX: Lancer.
[12] Eaglesham A (2007) The Putative Pitzer Movie: A Discussion. Here.
[13] Rinnovatore J (2009) JFK 11/22/63: Body/Casket Chicanery at the Bethesda Morgue. Here.
[14] Rinnovatore JV (2010) JFK 11/22/63: Where Was the Throat Wound Altered? Here.
[15] Horne, D.P. (2009) Inside the Assassination Records Review Board, e.g. pp. 1003-1006. Self-published.
[16] Rinnovatore JV Eaglesham A (2010) JFK 11/22/63: Who Took the Pre-Autopsy Photographs? Here.

[Jim DiEugenio]

I read Allan's review of the Heiner book and thought it was fair.

Jim essentially bases his treatment of the subject on Denis David and Heiner.

And Heiner is largely reliant on Marvin, until they had an apparent falling out.

But Allan has continued to work on the Pitzer case until he has accumulated what I think is the most current repository of info on it.

[Albert Doyle]

Again, what is screamingly apparent is how Jim himself would never let someone get away with what he does here. If you read Jim's entry he approaches this by the weakest reference-type, furthest from the facts, approach. Meanwhile Allan, while posing as the expert, offers a very weak character attack-based nickel and dime approach that you could drive a truck through as far as the evidence. I mean I'm outraged that conspiracy exposers would take a hardball approach towards witnesses seeing how they are victims of a system that left them out on their own and vulnerable. I see this as nothing less than taking advantage of that vulnerability in order to polish one's research skills at the expense of the truth. If we look at Allan's input there's nothing there that precludes both Dennis David and Dan Marvin telling the truth. I really don't see any motive for either of those persons to invent a crazy story, which is what Allan is indirectly accusing them of without ever getting around to admitting it. Also, the left hand, right hand controversy does nothing to refute the fact Pitzer was assassinated by CIA as Marvin witnessed. Jesus, talk about being on the wrong side.

[Charles Drago]

One of the most frequently used, oh-so-subtle disinformation methodologies employed by the "Albert Doyle" entity is to reference offhandedly as if it were established fact an incident that remains, for honest observers, open to grave doubt.

Most recent case in point: "Doyle" notes that "Marvin witnessed" the "CIA execution" of Pitzer.

"Doyle" is either an agent provocateur sent here on a mission to inform, or a blathering idiot.

Or both.

"Albert Doyle" is a fictive construct. If you wish to respond to "him," do so only as I am doing now: by exposing the charade.

When will DPF ban this band of bastards?