Oliver Stone: 'Nixon' Nixon and Helms 10 Minute Outtake Scene!

[Seamus Coogan]

I looked around and I'm not sure if anybody has ever posted this link on here.

I first came across it in late 2009, when I showed it to Jim and Lisa and the guys on Murder Solved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx0t-pLLD2k

Kind of a composite Helms and Angleton character vis a vis Tennis and flowers.

I hope you enjoy, and I generally think Stone got the tone if not the scene spot on.

[Phil Dragoo]

Seamus, your clip shows Nixon's vulnerability to Helms. It's suggested Helms placed Hunt with Nixon's team to sabotage the president. McCord, Hunt, Sturgisdown goes the champ, down goes the champ.


In Breach of Trust, Gerald McKnight places Helms setting Joannides over the Cuban Student Directorate. What Eddie Lopez could tell us about Joannides that CIA to this day will not allow.


Michael Calder says Helms assumed virtual control of CIA after JFK fired Dulles, Bissell, Cabell, while McCone was the titular head, kept in the dark; that after LBJ's appointment as DCI in 1966, Helms killed the witnesses to the JFK hituntil he was sent to Iran to play with his friend the Shah.


And is there an Iran link to Sirhan in Khan:


Khan was from Iran, not Turkey, and had been living in New York before he came to Los Angeles. He filled out over 20 volunteer cards (present in the SUS files) with names of "friends", always using his own address as their contact information. For this, and a more sinister reason, Isackson was not the only one suspicious of Khan. Several campaign workers said they had seen him with Sirhan.

Eleanor Severson was a campaign worker for RFK. She told the LAPD that on May 30, 1968, a man named Khaibar Khan came into Headquarters to register for campaign work. Khan claimed to have come to California from back East to help the campaign. From that day, Khan came into Headquarters every day until the election. The Sunday before the election, June 2, he brought four other foreigners (of Middle Eastern extraction) in to work as volunteers. Severson and her husband both said that Sirhan was one of these men. She remembered this group in particular because while she was registering the men, Kennedy's election day itinerary was taken from her desk. Her husband thought Sirhan may have taken it. Severson reported seeing Sirhan again early in the afternoon of June 3, standing near the coffee machine.

Larry Strick, another Kennedy worker, confirmed this account. He said he had spoken to Sirhan in the company of Khan. When Sirhan's picture was finally shown on TV, he and Mrs. Severson called each other nearly at the same instant to talk about the fact that this was the man they both remembered from Headquarters. Strick positively ID'd Sirhan from photos as the same man he had seen on June 2nd to both the LAPD and the FBI in the days immediately following the assassination.

http://www.ctka.net/2011/Grand_Illusionpt2.html


Odd about Waterston who seems weak though Helms strikes that feeble understated mienhe voted for Goldwater having been outraged by LBJ's Daisy commerciala bit of the Bill Moyers projection, Goldwater might do what LBJ and the generals had demanded two Octobers prior.


The takeaway is Helm's seeming civility makes his cunning treason plausibly deniable.


Helms on seizing the will (perhaps thinking of his urging on Lodge in the Diem coup):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms5tP0djVD0

[Seamus Coogan]

Seamus, your clip shows Nixon's vulnerability to Helms. It's suggested Helms placed Hunt with Nixon's team to sabotage the president. McCord, Hunt, Sturgisdown goes the champ, down goes the champ.


In Breach of Trust, Gerald McKnight places Helms setting Joannides over the Cuban Student Directorate. What Eddie Lopez could tell us about Joannides that CIA to this day will not allow.


Michael Calder says Helms assumed virtual control of CIA after JFK fired Dulles, Bissell, Cabell, while McCone was the titular head, kept in the dark; that after LBJ's appointment as DCI in 1966, Helms killed the witnesses to the JFK hituntil he was sent to Iran to play with his friend the Shah.


And is there an Iran link to Sirhan in Khan:


Khan was from Iran, not Turkey, and had been living in New York before he came to Los Angeles. He filled out over 20 volunteer cards (present in the SUS files) with names of "friends", always using his own address as their contact information. For this, and a more sinister reason, Isackson was not the only one suspicious of Khan. Several campaign workers said they had seen him with Sirhan.

Eleanor Severson was a campaign worker for RFK. She told the LAPD that on May 30, 1968, a man named Khaibar Khan came into Headquarters to register for campaign work. Khan claimed to have come to California from back East to help the campaign. From that day, Khan came into Headquarters every day until the election. The Sunday before the election, June 2, he brought four other foreigners (of Middle Eastern extraction) in to work as volunteers. Severson and her husband both said that Sirhan was one of these men. She remembered this group in particular because while she was registering the men, Kennedy's election day itinerary was taken from her desk. Her husband thought Sirhan may have taken it. Severson reported seeing Sirhan again early in the afternoon of June 3, standing near the coffee machine.

Larry Strick, another Kennedy worker, confirmed this account. He said he had spoken to Sirhan in the company of Khan. When Sirhan's picture was finally shown on TV, he and Mrs. Severson called each other nearly at the same instant to talk about the fact that this was the man they both remembered from Headquarters. Strick positively ID'd Sirhan from photos as the same man he had seen on June 2nd to both the LAPD and the FBI in the days immediately following the assassination.

http://www.ctka.net/2011/Grand_Illusionpt2.html


Odd about Waterston who seems weak though Helms strikes that feeble understated mienhe voted for Goldwater having been outraged by LBJ's Daisy commerciala bit of the Bill Moyers projection, Goldwater might do what LBJ and the generals had demanded two Octobers prior.


The takeaway is Helm's seeming civility makes his cunning treason plausibly deniable.


Helms on seizing the will (perhaps thinking of his urging on Lodge in the Diem coup):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms5tP0djVD0

Your right mate Kahn what a scary guy! Hmmmmm I like Mike personally I tend to go in the Lisa and Jim type of frame with Helms I think it was more a power sharing relationship in many ways Helms kinda covered for Angleton, because well Angleton had the goods on everyone sort of like Helms mastered the bureaucracy of it and Angleton ran what he wanted. It's an interesting debate kinda leader and the led and then reversed. It's ancient history now but of course with Helms not there to protect Angleton Colby got him finally. Id like to know whom has done the best study of their relationship with each other Mangold looks promising from what I have seen.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Seamus - I assume that would be Tom Mangold you're referencing....

[Seamus Coogan]

Seamus - I assume that would be Tom Mangold you're referencing....

Hole in one Jan!

[Jan Klimkowski]

Seamus - I assume that would be Tom Mangold you're referencing....

Hole in one Jan!

Mangold played pointman in insisting loudly and prominently that "conspiracy theories" should not be tolerated in the aftermath of the death of Dr David Kelly. He's also very well connected.

I always check his cited sources carefully, and look for independent corroboration or lack thereof....

[Charles Drago]

The name "Helms" is spoken near the beginning.

Note the black, soulless eyes of "Helms" as he slouches over his orchids.

Also note the manner in which "Helms'" hair rises at the back of his shirt collar.

Contrary to the self-image "Nixon" carries into the scene, the historic Nixon was not "the fucking casino."

He was a hooker working the slots section.

[Seamus Coogan]

Seamus - I assume that would be Tom Mangold you're referencing....

Hole in one Jan!

Mangold played pointman in insisting loudly and prominently that "conspiracy theories" should not be tolerated in the aftermath of the death of Dr David Kelly. He's also very well connected.

I always check his cited sources carefully, and look for independent corroboration or lack thereof....

I agree there. Mangolds account may well have flaws but what I liked were his descriptions of JA's pals. Kind of like, oh man these guys were terrible! But they didn't........sort of thing. It's funny really, Mangold even in defence could find nothing redeeming about them in their defence. Mangold connected? Yeah likely Jan but he's closer than that dead beat Trento.

[Anthony Thorne]

I found the following exchange in the Youtube comments section to be fairly amusing - checking the username, it's c/o CHASING GHOSTS author James Koepke.

"I interviewed Helms. Quite a guy. He admitted JFK was killed by a conspiracy of CIA agents and Cubans. Waterston's performance is excellent."

@Kepmeister - "Seriously? When?"

Kep - "It was the mid-1990's. He was really pi--ed at me. Theatened me. I still have an audio tape of him calling me and leaving me his phone number, telling me would allow me to interview him. He started off by saying he supported the Warren Commission. He was in his 80's and I wore him down eventually to where he gave up and just admitted it. Heck of a guy."

Hmmph.

[Seamus Coogan]

I found the following exchange in the Youtube comments section to be fairly amusing - checking the username, it's c/o CHASING GHOSTS author James Koepke.

"I interviewed Helms. Quite a guy. He admitted JFK was killed by a conspiracy of CIA agents and Cubans. Waterston's performance is excellent."

@Kepmeister - "Seriously? When?"

Kep - "It was the mid-1990's. He was really pi--ed at me. Theatened me. I still have an audio tape of him calling me and leaving me his phone number, telling me would allow me to interview him. He started off by saying he supported the Warren Commission. He was in his 80's and I wore him down eventually to where he gave up and just admitted it. Heck of a guy."

Hmmph.

Thats bloody interesting likely bull but fun.