Clifton tape and Collins Radio Doug Horne

[Bernice Moore]

Doug mentions where is Wiarton, in Canada, that is in northern , ontario, there is or was a military base there, at that time..it is not too far from Toronto..it appears to be gone from the map now.....b

[Bernice Moore]

http://curtis-lemay.tripod.com/


''In air campaigns against Japan during World War II, LeMay abandoned the established policy of daylight, precision bombing. Instead, he loaded his B29's with firebombs and sent them out over Japanese cities during the night. As LeMay described it, the B29's "scorched, boiled and baked to death" some 330,000 people.''

General Curtis LeMay - Demented Cold Warrior

''

Noel Twyman in Bloody Treason wrote of General LeMay's sour relationship with President Kennedy:

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John Kennedy and his key people were determined to seize control of the military -- a feat no president had accomplished since World War II. The chiefs resented the Kennedys and their whiz kids who had little or no experience in military command; the chiefs were accustomed to presidents who let them do their thing without meddlesome interference from politicians.Perhaps the two most dangerous of all the generals were Curtis LeMay and his head of the Strategic Air Command, General Thomas Power. General LeMay is legendary for his mania to start World War III by goading the Soviet Union with unauthorized reconnaissance flights that penetrated their forbidden boundaries.LeMay was [an] extremely crude character.... Dino Brugioni in Eyeball to Eyeball wrote of LeMay's excesses:

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Meetings of the Joint Chiefs of Staff were alluded to by some as a three-ring circus. General Curtis E. LeMay, Air Force chief of staff, was characterized by one observer as always injecting himself into situations "like a rogue elephant barging out of a forest." There are many stories of LeMay's crudeness in dealing with his colleagues on the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He found the meetings dull, tiring, and unproductive. Petulant and often childish when he didn't get his way, LeMay would light a cigar and blow smoke in the direction of anyone challenging his position. To show utter disgust, he would walk into the private Joint Chiefs of Staff toilet, leave the door open, urinate of break wind loudly, and flush the commode a number of aggravating times. He would then saunter calmly back into the meeting pretending that nothing had happened. When angry with individual staff members, he would resort to sarcasm; if that failed, he would direct his wrath to the entire staff.''

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[Bernice Moore]

IMO I FOR ONE AM SO VERY PLEASED AFTER ALL THESE MANY YEARS AND AFTER ALL THE
insults that were thrown at David Lifton, re his research and information within, ''BEST EVIDENCE'' that have been thrown at him,so many times on the web, to see now that his information and studies have been proven true, and gee i can think of a few names who will be eating much crow now....so there you..:pointlaugh:turkeys b cheers for David..:thumbsup:

I think there is one hell of a book, in the information that Doug has related in this interview, i do hope, Doug writes it...thanks b

[Bernice Moore]

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/ DougHorne.

[Bernice Moore]

A few taken at ANDREWS that night...b

[Bernice Moore]

a couple more...only posting the best shots.. thanks...b

[Bernice Moore]

Here are a few from love, taking the coffin to love in the ambulance..

[Bernice Moore]

THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENT about ISRAEL; was not able to be confirmed,he had died, but here it is for your info, if interested...b.....ps the list of those present at the autopsy..below according to sibert and o'neill..


.1.. During the autopsy, Special Agents Sibert and O'Neill recorded the names of what they believed were all the persons in attendance at any
time. In a report they submitted subsequent the autopsy, they included: b.. Adm. Calvin B. Galloway, commanding officer of the U.N. [sic] =
National Naval Medical Center;=20
c.. Adm. George C. Burkley, White House physician to the President;
d.. Comdr. James J. Humes, director of the laboratories of the
National Medical School, Naval Medical Center, Bethesda, Md.;
e.. Capt. James H. Stover, Jr., commanding officer of the Naval
Medical School;
f.. John Thomas Stringer, Jr., medical photographer;
g.. James H. Ebersole, assistant chief radiologist at the Bethesda
Naval Medical Center;
h.. Floyd Albert Riebe, medical photographer; i.. J. Thornton Boswell, chief of pathology at Bethesda;
j.. Jan Gail Rudnicki, laboratory technologist, assisting Dr. Boswell;
k.. Pierre A. Finck, M.D., chief of the military environmental
pathology division and chief of the wound ballistics pathology branch at
Walter Reed Medical Center; (27)
l.. Paul K. O'Conner, laboratory technologist;
m.. Jerrol F. Custer, X-ray technician; .. James Curtis Jenkins, laboratory technologist;
o.. Edward F. Reed, X-ray technician
p.. James E. Metzler, hospital corpsman third-class;
q.. Capt. David Osborne, chief of surgery
r.. Brig. Gen. Godfrey McHugh, Air Force aide to the President;
s.. Lt. Comdr. Gregory H. Cross, resident in surgery;
t.. Gen. Philip C. Wehle, commanding officer of the U.S. Military
District, Washington, D.C.;=20
u.. Chester H. Boyers, chief petty officer in charge of the pathology
division;
v.. Dr. George Bakeman, U.S. Navy (the committee could not locate this person);
w.. Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman;
x.. Secret Service Agent William Greer; and
y.. Secret Service Agent John J. O'Leary.
a..
1.. Through its own investigation, the committee determined that the
following persons also attended the autopsy:
2.. Richard A. Lipsey, personal aide to General Wehle;(29) and
3.. Samuel Bird,(30) in 1963, a lieutenant stationed at the ceremonial
duties office, Fort Myers, Va., 3d Infantry Division.
a..
1.. Additionally, Sibert and O'Neill reported that, following the
autopsy, four persons from Gawler's Funeral Home in Washington, D.C.,
entered the autopsy room to prepare the President's body for burial.
They were:=20
2.. John Van Haeson;
3.. Edwin Stroble;=20
4.. Thomas Robinson; and
5.. Mr. Hagen.(31)
1.. These persons, together with Sibert and O'Neill, were the only
ones present at any time in the autopsy room with the body of the
President.

[Bernice Moore]

from bethesda..

[Phil Dragoo]

Prior to the release of Version 2.0 of the AF1 tapes, Horne had presented:

BEGIN ACCOUNT OF HORNE PRESENTATION:

We have three different documented casket arrivals now in official documents, not two, three.
Arrival # 1 around 6:40 - 6:45 p.m.

Dennis David has stated he saw a shipping casket arrive and helped take it out of a black hearse at the back of the Bethesda morgue, taking it into the anteroom at about 6:40 p.m. Horne then read a paragraph from his interview with Dennis David (MD177),



"At about 6:30 p.m. Mr. David said he received a telephone call in which someone told him, 'Your visitor is on his way. You will need some people to off-load.' He then got his duty sailors together, borrowed some orphans from the dental school and assembled them outside the loading dock by about 6:40 p.m. 5 or 6 minutes later at about 6:45 p.m. he said that a black hearse drove up to the morgue loading dock. The driver and the person riding shotgun, ie. the front seat passenger, were wearing operating room smocks: white gowns. Four or five men in blue suits whom he assumed were federal agents exited the back of the hearse and supervised and observed while the approximately 7 or 8 Navy sailors working for him off-loaded the casket from the hearse. He said it was a simple grey metal shipping casket such as he frequently saw used later during the Vietnam war. His group of sailors took the casket into the anteroom directly adjacent to the morgue. He then dismissed them and went back upstairs to an administrative office on the second floor of the tower building out front toward the lobby."




Some time later, David Lifton became aware of a man named Donald Rebentisch who was one of these 7 or 8 sailors who under Dennis David's direction who carried a shipping casket from a black hearse into the anteroom of the morgue. And in fact, Dennis David was later stationed with Donald Rebentisch [in Vietnam?], they didn't realize what they had participated in this night until years later. Only recently did we find documentary evidence of this event.


Researcher Kathy Cunningham was kind enough to send the ARRB a lead that she had located, a Roger Boyajian, former Marine Guard, the head of the Marine Guard Unit that guarded the morgue during the autopsy. These are not ceremonial guards, this is security, these guys are from Marine barracks. They carry guns. The real deal.


Boyajian wrote a letter to Horne that reads: "One thing bothering me is that I can't recall seeing the casket arrive, yet I state in the report that it arrived at 1830 hours."(MD 236) A document dated November 26, 1963 by Boyijain to Commanding Officer, Marine Corps Institute Company states, "At approximately 1835 the casket was received at the morgue entrance and taken inside." Very interesting, as the motorcade from Andrews Air Force Base allegedly carrying JFK in a ceremonial casket in a light color Navy ambulance doesn't arrive at Bethesda until about 6:55 p.m. and it sat outside Bethesda's front entrance until about 7:15 p.m. and didn't arrive at the back until about 7:17 p.m.


Arrival #2 around 7:15 p.m.


Horne then showed a document prepared by Sibert and O'Neill right after they were interviewed by Arlen Specter (MD153). They went back to the FBI and recorded how that interview went with Specter. They wrote that Specter had asked them, "What was the time of the preparation of the autopsy?" They answered, "approximately 7:17 p.m."


In their depositions to the ARRB Sibert and O'Neill recalled sitting alone in front of Bethesda. Bobby Kennedy is there discussing things with Admirals and Generals. Jackie had already gone inside. Greer was sitting in the driver's seat of the grey Navy ambulance. They are in a car behind this ambulance for ten to twenty minutes. Finally, they go to Greer and ask him what is the problem, why aren't they going to the loading dock? Greer tells them he doesn't know how to get there, that Kellerman went into the hospital and he doesn't know how to find him. So they say: "We know how to find him."



They told the ARRB they took the lead position and took Greer back to the loading dock. So, Horne concluded the "approximately 7:17 p.m. estimate is accurate, and circumstantial evidence that it may indeed have been empty. If the casket that arrived at 1830, (or 6:30 p.m. for us civilians) had JFK in it then the bronze ceremonial casket must be empty."


Arrival #3 around 8:00 p.m.


Horne then showed a military casket team report written by an Lt. Byrd (MD163): "From the ambulance to the morgue at 2000 hours." So, officially the bronze casket does not go into the morgue until 8:00 p.m. This casket does have a ceremonial guard, and the casket team does not have weapons.



Lifton interviewed X-ray technician Edward Reed in 1979 and asked him about the casket entry. Reed said the Marines brought the casket in and, "...they had guns."



Horne then had an audiotape played in two parts, beginning with Humes, then the Lifton-Reed* interview.



Gunn: "Dr. Humes, when did you first see the body of President Kennedy?"


Humes: "I didn't look at my watch, if I even had a watch on, but I would guess it was 6:45 or 7 o'clock, something like that, approximately."



Horne comments, "That's important. The Honor Guard said they took it in at 8 o,clock."


Back to the audiotape:


Lifton: "Were you there when the actual body arrived? Okay, could you just tell me because they are trying to determine who was in the room and where that was, was it down in the morgue? Was it inside the room, did you meet it at the loading dock or what?"




(*It is hard to hear Reed's taped voice clearly, so I have to summarize what he stated.) Reed says the Marines brought the casket in. Marines. Marines with guns, about 10 of them.


Horne then showed Boyajain's letter to him (MD 236. Letter dated Sept. 10, 1997) He says, "I think I split the detail initially, sending 7 men to meet the ambulance and taking the remainder with me to set up security posts within the corridors." Horne thinks these 7 or 10 Marines are the Marines Ed Reed saw, and Horne thinks they took the casket from the anteroom where the sailors put it down into the morgue. So, we have this strange break in the chain of custody.



http://www.jfklancer.com/backes/horne/Backes2b.html


END ACCOUNT OF HORNE PRESENTATION

On the new version of the tape(s) is the multiple mention of the black hearse seen by the Bethesda enlisted.

Not the gray Navy ambulance carrying the bronze viewing casket, the First Lady, and Robert Kennedy.

In all accounts Custer carries the x-rays up from the morgue to the darkroom, and when the official party arrives, he is stopped by the Secret Service agent on the mezzanine, for it is a dangerous paradox akin to the Ghostbusters crossing plasma beams.


Lifton faithfully recorded the multiple arrivals, a dizzying proposition to citizens expecting a by-the-book procedure in the inner sanctum of the military establishment.

McHugh claimed he stayed with the body. According to Palamara, McHugh's normal place in the motorcade was between the front-seat Secret Service agents. And what a shock to find McHugh had dated Jacqueline.

The because-we-say-so dogma is torn and frayed.

And those who scoffed at the body alteration narrative have to account for the lack of any remaining brain left in the skull, and for the cracked-boiled-egg nature of that skull described by the Bethesda enlisted.

A major point of contention by those Horne describes as his enemies (yes, he said that) is that he retraced the Lifton body alteration line.

How else explain for example the throat incision for the tracheotomy of at most two centimeters through the throat entry wound which closed inviolate.

A six-centimeter gash with ragged edges. A hideous thing. And of course the total smash job on the skull to take a baseball-sized avulsive wound at the back and make it a map of the Eurasian land mass on the side.


Curtis LeMay the man of mystery and the star of Dr. Strangelove, Seven Days in May, and Executive Action.

Swoops down from his fortress of solitude to stand astride the autopsy to be certain it would conceal the coup.

Our friend the colonel recounted how his "killers" had coaxed the identity of the political officer who'd put his photo on wanted posters in the village by bending the source backwards over a log and applying helmets of water to the nose.

Humes was only asked politely why he had obstructed justice in the murder of the president.

And upon being escorted to his car, mocked, "I sure hope you solve this thing."