Adele Edisen Wrote:[ John Kennedy insisted on keeping Lyndon Johnson as his running mate in 1964, in spite of his brother's antipathy to the idea.
I thought Evelyn Lincoln said JFK told her LBJ would be off the ticket in 1964? May I ask how LBJ could even be on the ticket if he was about to go down in the Bobby Baker scandal?
How did Marshall die of suicide after being shot 5 times by his own rifle? He was going to expose LBJ in the cotton subsidy scandal.
Didn't Bobby ask LBJ why he killed his brother? (I'm not endorsing "Mastermind" - just making a point).
14-05-2012, 07:08 AM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2012, 10:54 AM by Adele Edisen.)
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Albert Doyle Wrote:
Adele Edisen Wrote:[ John Kennedy insisted on keeping Lyndon Johnson as his running mate in 1964, in spite of his brother's antipathy to the idea.
I thought Evelyn Lincoln said JFK told her LBJ would be off the ticket in 1964? May I ask how LBJ could even be on the ticket if he was about to go down in the Bobby Baker scandal?
How did Marshall die of suicide after being shot 5 times by his own rifle? He was going to expose LBJ in the cotton subsidy scandal.
Didn't Bobby ask LBJ why he killed his brother? (I'm not endorsing "Mastermind" - just making a point).
After the assassination, Lyndon Johnson had a lot of work to do. When he came to the Oval Office, he found Evelyn Lincoln seated at her desk, apparently ready to work for him. He told her he had an appointment coming in and he needed her to pack up her things so that his own secretary could start to move in. This angered her, but she did pack up her own things and all of John Kennedy's papers, documents, memorabilia, photos, books, and other personal items of his own, and took them with her. Later she complained of her dismissal to Jackie Kennedy who had her own despair to deal with, and Jackie told her, "At least you have a husband." There wasn't much Jackie could do for her.
Evelyn Lincoln privately sold the items she had removed which had belonged to John Kennedy. Some of these were personal items which should have gone to Mrs. Kennesy and other members of the Kennedy family; some were items that should have gone to The Kennedy Library; and some were documents and papers which belonged to the American people and should have gone to the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). The National Archives had to locate the buyers of the Kennedy materials that Evelyn Lincoln had sold to them and buy them back, with taxpayer's money, and redistribute and restore them to their rightful owners. She never asked permission to possess them or to sell them.
She may have had other reasons for disliking LBJ and adding his name to her list of suspects. She had eavesdropped on a private conversation between Bobby Kennedy and Jack when thay discussed LBJ's candidacy as Vice President in 1964. John Kennedy knew that If he were to win the 1964 election, he had to win the Southern States, and to do this, he needed Lyndon Johnson. They both wanted the Civil Rights Act to pass and Johnson was the only one who could do it. That's why Jack argued against his brother's wishes because he knew there was no one else who could garner the neccessary votes. That's why he had wanted him at the beginning. But she had heard Bobby arguing against the V-P position for LBJ and may have assumed that Jack would agree to that.
Probably every senator had had dealings with Bobby Baker. I don't think that was such a big threat to LBJ. Every senator also received gifts from lobbyists. Remember, it was the Republican National Committee Chairman who had started the rumor that JFK would not have LBJ on the ticket in 1964, and without LBJ Kennedy had a poor chance of winning the South, and the rest of the country. I think the Republican strategy was to get rid of LBJ by whatever means they could. This is politics. In 2000 and 2004, they rigged the voting machines, remember?
I don't know by whom or why Henry Marshall was killed. However, local Texans have written of this and I keep wondering why they are so interested in it, judging from those who are. That is an unsolved murder (wasn't Marshall also exposed to carbon monoxide?). I don't know enough about the case, and I think there is more that should be known and investigated. It may not be as simple as it seems.
I don't think Bobby ever asked LBJ that question, but he did ask it of John McCone, then Director of the CIA, and also of one other person at the CIA whom he trusted (unknown name).
I think he called John McCone shortly after he learned of his brother's death, or maybe it was right after he learned Lee Harvey Oswald was shot. I don't think he ever thought Lyndon Johnson was responsible. The CIA would like to have LBJ blamed for it, takes the pressure off of them, and we now know that aspects of the CIA were involved.
Jose Rivera was connected to the CIA and he knew of Oswald and the plot at least seven months before the assassination happened. There's a book forthcomiong in September by
Hank Albarelli, A SECRET ORDER, which will have more on Rivera and others in the JFK assassination.
Evelyn Lincoln would have to be a pretty bold liar if she said Kennedy's talk to her on 19 Nov 1963 about replacing LBJ with Terry Sanford was so impressive she transcribed it immediately into her diary. That doesn't sound like a vengeful lie to me.
I thought they pretty much knew Johnson's henchmen killed Marshall to keep LBJ from a cotton subsidy looting scandal. Again you accuse me of loose research but these are things you can't be fuzzy on. Monoxide and 5 rifle shots pretty much backs what I'm saying doesn't it?
Spartacus:
Quote:On 22nd November, 1963, a friend of Baker's, Don B. Reynolds told B. Everett Jordan and his Senate Rules Committee that Johnson had demanded that he provided kickbacks in return for this business. This included a $585 Magnavox stereo. Reynolds also had to pay for $1,200 worth of advertising on KTBC, Johnson's television station in Austin. Reynolds had paperwork for this transaction including a delivery note that indicated the stereo had been sent to the home of Johnson. Don B. Reynolds also told of seeing a suitcase full of money which Baker described as a "$100,000 payoff to Johnson for his role in securing the Fort Worth TFX contract". His testimony came to an end when news arrived that President John F. Kennedy had been assassinated.
15-05-2012, 05:24 AM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2012, 10:52 AM by Adele Edisen.)
Albert Doyle Wrote:Evelyn Lincoln would have to be a pretty bold liar if she said Kennedy's talk to her on 19 Nov 1963 about replacing LBJ with Terry Sanford was so impressive she transcribed it immediately into her diary. That doesn't sound like a vengeful lie to me.
I thought they pretty much knew Johnson's henchmen killed Marshall to keep LBJ from a cotton subsidy looting scandal. Again you accuse me of loose research but these are things you can't be fuzzy on. Monoxide and 5 rifle shots pretty much backs what I'm saying doesn't it?
Spartacus:
Quote:On 22nd November, 1963, a friend of Baker's, Don B. Reynolds told B. Everett Jordan and his Senate Rules Committee that Johnson had demanded that he provided kickbacks in return for this business. This included a $585 Magnavox stereo. Reynolds also had to pay for $1,200 worth of advertising on KTBC, Johnson's television station in Austin. Reynolds had paperwork for this transaction including a delivery note that indicated the stereo had been sent to the home of Johnson. Don B. Reynolds also told of seeing a suitcase full of money which Baker described as a "$100,000 payoff to Johnson for his role in securing the Fort Worth TFX contract". His testimony came to an end when news arrived that President John F. Kennedy had been assassinated.
Al, I think the evidence has to be better. None of your statements can prove that Lyndon Johnson killed John Kennedy. Evelyn Lincoln had problems with the truth and honesty. It doesn't matter what she wrote down. JFK told his best friends, Kenny O'Donnell and Dave Powers, that he wanted LBJ on the 1964 ticket, when they confronted him about this Republican-initiated rumor.
And the Don Reynolds matter also does not prove LBJ killed John Kennedy. We have no way of knowing if Reynolds' testimony was the truth. Making allegations proves nothing. Reynolds' statement of Baker's statement is mere hearsay, and Baker was not exactly a truthful person.
On the Marshall murder, you said: [QUOTE]Monoxide and 5 rifle shots pretty much backs what I'm saying doesn't it?[QUOTE]
No, it doesn't. I thought I had recalled something about that murder which made it even more improbable and a fumble job.. I also thought it was two rifle shots, not five. I'll have to read over that old material again to refresh my memory. Again, that still does not prove that LBJ killed JFK, just like the murder of Officer Tippit does not prove that Lee Harvey Oswald killed John Kennedy. .
25-05-2012, 09:21 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2012, 09:45 PM by Adele Edisen.)
The Miller Center of Public Affairs, University of Virginia
For those with interest in history:
Fri, May 25, 2012 6:47:46 AM
FW: Check out "All the Way with LBJ": The 1964 Presidential Election
This site contains audio excerpts and transcripts of around 60 conversations from Lyndon Johnson's secretly recorded telephone calls related to the 1964 election. The pages below also include photographs from the campaign, television ads used by both sides, and various other items of political paraphernalia.
Albert Doyle Wrote:I read those reviews too. Why is it that the first qualification of leaders like Bill Clinton is their willingness to tolerate government evils? Johnson's promotion of civil rights was the permanent government's reward to America for tolerating their fascist coup and nothing more. The political instability it would cause, like VietNam, would be enough to throw the American public off their feet as far as doing justice in the matter of JFK.
I completely agree with the notion that "civil rights" was the bone thrown to the liberal left which they swallowed whole, and which served to anesthetize that entire segment of the body politic to the notion that Kennedy's assassination was anything more than the "Oswald did it" scenario.
Certain insiders were given what I call the "insider's cover story" (which actually became public in early March, 1967): "Kennedy was trying to get Castro, but Castro got him first".
And then, of course, there was the "World War 3" story which was used, as needed (e.g., to scare the wits out of Warren et al).
So these are three of the primary tools (of persuasion) that were in LBJ "political toolbox."
To repeat:
(1) LBJ was a major promoter of civil rights (in the tradition of FDR, who was, in fact, one of his heroes)
I personally happen to think LBJ was sincere in this, but that is largely irrelevant.
He was still involved in the murder of his predecessor, regardless of what figleaf was used to hide his involvement.
It does not change the fact that 58,000 Americans died in Asia,not to mention over 1 million Asians dead or seriously injured which occurred when, finally, in the Spring of 1965 (and beyond) the conflict in SE Asia was deliberately escalated to the fourth largest war in American history, which was clearly not Kennedy's intent.
(2) LBJ was able to hint darkly of two ominous underlying truths; either that:
(a) Oswald's presence in Mexico City --seven weeks before--was evidence he was a Castro agent etc.
(a line which was completely believed, and subsequently promoted, by Al Haig and Califano, for example)
(b) Castro had pre-empted (i.e., he acted in self-defense).
"Kennedy was trying to kill Castro, and so. . . " (complete in 25 words or less. . e.g., "this was a backfire. ." or "this was blowback" etc)
This line was reserved strictly for insiders (and possibly even top media moguls in the NY times or the Luce organization)
It became public in the Spring of 1975, when Howard K Smith and Marianne Means each revealed how LBJ had taken them into his confidence with this one.
The basic pitch: "We can't let the world know that the President and his brother were trying to kill Castro! That would make it look like Castro acted in self-defense!" Johnson's exact words (per H K Smith: "I'll tell you something that will rock you. . Kennedy was trying to get to Castro, but Castro got to him first." -- "Johnson is Quoted on Kennedy Death", NY TImes, 6/25/76)
(c ) The "truth" had to be subordinated to something more important: i.e., preventing World War 3:
The details: "If the public knew the truth, there would be an outcry" and that would lead to unstoppable political pressure to attack Cuba; and so there's be a replay of the Cuban Missile Crisis. . etc Documentary source; Memo, Melvin Eisenberg to file, 2/17/64, memorializing what C J Earl Warren told the staff, at the first staff meeting: "The President stated that rumors of the most exaggerated kind were circulating in this country and overseas. Some rumors went so far as attributing the assassination to a faction within the Government wishing to see the Presidency assumed by President Johnson. Others, if not quenched, could conceivably lead the country into a war which could cost 40 million lives. No one could refuse to do something which might help to prevent such a possibility. The President convinced him that this was an occasion on which actual conditions had to override general principles."
These three rationales were like different cans of paint, on a shelf, when one is redecorating a house. Working behind this assortment of smokescreens, LBJ--with Jack Valenti at his side, every step of the way, and with Dean Rusk (who then showed his "hawk" colos for all to see)--was able to implement the true agenda of the plotters: the Vietnam escalation. Specifically, dispensing with the entire Cuban agenda (which was Kennedy's focus) LBJ was able to quietly engineer the escalation of the Vietnam War which did not commence until after he won reelection in his own right (Nov 1964). Then, in the Spring of 1965 (and starting in February, 1965, a ful fourteen months after Dallas, and with an incident at Bien Hoa air base) overtly began the implementation of a reversal of what had been JFK's ("out by '65") policy. The LBJ escalation began when the tit for tat bombing of North Vietnam was escalated to the continual "bombing of the north" (called "Rolling Thunder" by the Air Force); then came sending in choppers, and then Marines to protect the choppers, and by July of 1965, the U.S. presence had grown to hundreds of thousands.
In navigating these post-assassination "political waters," LBJ (pardon the mixed metaphors) "played" various "insider constituencies" and the public like an expert violinist, in much the same way he manipulated various coalitions throughout his political career.
Its really obvious, in retrospect, how he did this. Of course the liberals loved the "Great Society," so that served to anesthetize them. Meanwhile, the true hidden agenda of Dallas was the escalation in Vietnam, and there were enough "Cold War liberals" to go along with that bull shit. As I used to say to John Newman (this was back around 1988-89, before he wrote his thesis, which became his book): "Kennedy's problem (politically) was how to disguise a withdrawal; Johnson's, how to disguise an escalation." Its really that simple.
Johnson's entire leitmotif --in the opening days and weeks--was: "Let us continue. . ." That, basically, was what he told individual JFK aides, in seeking to get them to "stay on board" for awhile; and that, basically, was the speech he delivered to the joint session of Congress about 6 days after Dallas. It was his theme song.
But he did anything but "continue" as the Washington, D.C. monument to the Vietnam War dead attests.
Our friend died November 22, 2007, and I have held a copy he gave me of his letter of July 18, 1998 to Mr. Robert A. Caro, 91 Central Park West, New York New York 10023.
It reads in part:
In the summer of 1963 the economist Eliot Janeway kept an appointment he had made with William H. Gassett, vice president and economist of Eaton & Howard, Inc., located at 24 Federal St., Boston. Bill Gassett had previously telephoned me, two floors above him, and asked me to attend the meeting. I was a portfolio manager, not an economist, and when I entered Gassett's office I expected to see some other people from Eaton & Howard there as well. But I was the only one invited.
Gassett's office was large and had extra chairs. His desk chair was backed up to two windows on Federal Street, and on the opposite side of his desk were two chairs where visitors would sit. Strangely, Eliot Janeway sat beside Gassett, apparently having moved a visitor's chair near him.
For the next twenty to thirty minutes Janeway spoke to us as a "close friend of LBJ of long standing" about the dangerous man called John F. Kennedy who occupied the presidency of the United States. He whispered his comments in what I have always referred to as a hiss. Janeway had not one good thing to say about JFK or his brother Robert, and strongly advised us to consider the great damage that they could and probably would do to the nation.
Following the assassination, when I saw many older officers, who were staunch Republicans, openly weep, I telephoned Gassett from my office and reminded him of Janeway's earlier visit. Gassett said, "I don't even want to think about it."
Janeway is long dead; Bill Gassett died some years ago also, and I am 75 years old now. I have told this story as an anecdote from time to time over the years. If you care to pursue it, here are some details that might help toward authentication. Eaton & Howard is now known as Eaton & Vance, and is a much larger operation than it was in 1960-68 period when I was a portfolio manager there. But it was a factor in the Boston investment scene, with over 100 employees and with offices in New York City and San Francisco.
I fell that Janeway was on a tour encompassing more than Boston to spread his words as a messenger of LBJ among the investment community. I suspect that someone in another and perhaps larger investment firm that he had visited earlier in the day, may have telephoned Bill Gassett and advised him to have a witness in the room if Janeway appeared. I can't prove that, but I am sure that Janeway would have booked meetings at such larger Boston firms of that time as Mass. Investors Trust (now Mass. Financial Services), Keystone, and probably The Old Colony Trust Co. (wholly-owned by the then First National Bank of Boston). Possibly Scudder, Stevens & Clark and Loomis, Sayles may also have received visits. In Boston in 1963 one would have no trouble visiting many investment firms in just one day.
It was obvious while Janeway spoke to us that he was more than just a friend and messenger of LBJ's. He was virulent, he was evil, and I am sure he believed every word he spoke. There was no discussion of current economics in that meeting, nor were either Gassett or I allowed time to comment or question his statements. It was a prepared speech, and when it ended, Janeway left.
End
Note: On stationery bearing address, telephone, fax. Dated July 18, 1998
I have the copy handed me by the writer.
To clarify his position on LBJ, his ire was evident in recounting, "Brown & Root would show up every week for another check for a billion dollars."
I have wondered what relation to a) EO 11110, and b) the American University speech had to Janeway's circuit. And of course in Horne is stipulated the Dallas event was being typeset as of April 23, a date associated with Secret Service defiance of 1992 JFK Records Act responsibilities.
