Oswald was NOT wearing the same clothes before and after going back to Beckley

[David Josephs]

Bus transfers are usually valid for 2 hours after purchase of initial ticket when you start to travel today, back in 1963 the transfer ticket my have been valid for the remainder of the day.

Oswald was not wealthy so if he went home to change with the plan of going out somewhere else, of course he would stick the bus transfer ticket back in his pocket after getting chnged and take it with him (especially if it was still valid for several more hours).....Oh

What did mrs roberts say....he left the boarding house and the last time she saw him he was standing where......oh thats right at the bus stop near his residence...

No mystery here....he got on a bus....he got off a bus...got in a cab....changed at home....put the transfer ticket in his new shirt pocket...went outside waited a few minutes for a bus.....changed his mind and walked off.

no need to see issues...when there really isnt one....lots more important stuff to look at then this issue of the bus ticket.

Not sure where you are coming from here AJ...

Oswald was NOT on the bus... Whaley was the 2nd cabbie of choice when the first one mentioned didn't exist.
Both Bledsoe and Whaley are among the WORST of the witnesses in terms of transparency of purpose.

The bullets and transfer are discovered HOURS later... both, imo were planted.

Not a single soul sees Oswald going UP the 5 blocks (if he actually did that) or BACK DOWN to the Tippit murder site....
There is good evidence this person was walking WEST when Tippit happens upon him (them)


The point you are conceeding is that the clothes were changed... this alone - regardless of the transfer - makes the discussion about DOORMAN wearing Oswald's arrest shirt... impossible.

The OSWALD INNOCENCE sides with the WCR in that he did NOT change clothes... yet this sentence from the WCR lets us know Roberts sees him enter the roominghouse WITHOUT the brown shirt... and leave zipping a jacket...

Is this the same person as the man leaving the TSBD?

When Oswald came in she said, "Oh, you are in a hurry," but Oswald
did not respond.. He hurried to his room and stayed no longer than
3 or 4 minutes. Oswald had entered the house in his shirt sleeves,
163 http://www.history-matters.com/archive/j..._0094a.htm


Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe I have because most time I noticed when
Lee had it, I say he put off his shirt and just wear a T-shirt the biggest part
of the time so really what shirt he wore that day I really didn't see it or
didn't pay enough attention to it whether he did have a shirt on.

Mr. BALL - On Thursday afternoon when you went home, drove on home, did he carry
any package with him?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; he didn't
Mr. BALL - Did he have a jacket or coat on him?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What kind of a jacket or coat did he have?
Mr. FRAZIER - That, you know, like I say gray jacket.
Mr. BALL - That same gray jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Now, I can be frank with you, I had seen him wear that jacket several
times, because it is cool type like when you keep a jacket on all day, if you
are working on outside or something like that, you wouldn't go outside with just
a plain shirt on.
Mr. BALL - I have no further questions.

So if he rode directly from the Paines to work with Frasier wearing the GRAY JACKET TO WORK...
How does he go to his room to get a GRAY JACKET?

Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then. But it all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki. Then he had on a brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on it and he had on some kind of jacket, I didn't notice very close but I think it was a work jacket that almost matched the pants.
He, his shirt was open three buttons down here. He had on a T-shirt. You know, the shirt was open three buttons down there.

[Jim Pomerville]

Hi David , And to add to the Mystery , Marion Baker stated in his 11/22 affidavit " The man is saw was a white man approximately 30 years old 5'9",165 pounds,dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket."


Jim

[David Josephs]

Hi David , And to add to the Mystery , Marion Baker stated in his 11/22 affidavit " The man is saw was a white man approximately 30 years old 5'9",165 pounds,dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket."


Jim

Jim -

Good to see you here...

yes, the infamous Baker affidavit with a SAME DAY description that is eerily the same as Sawyer's "I dont remember who it was" witness...

Yet this person disappears to history by the time the testimony portion of out game comes around....

THANK YOU for helping me look again at Baker as I did not know about this question and answer...

Now MORE Evidence that Oswald changed after he left the TSBD

Mr. DULLES - Do you recall whether or not he was wearing the same clothes, did
he appear to you the same when you saw him in the police station as when you saw
him in the lunchroom?
Mr. BAKER - Actually just looking at him, he looked like he didn't have the same thing on.
Mr. BELIN - He looked as though he did not have the same thing on?
Mr. BAKER - He looked like he did not have the same on.

[LR Trotter]

Mr Joseph, I seem to be having trouble with my reading comprehension, most notably, with boldness differences, and especially the added colorization. I do blame my somewhat diminished reading comprehension ability. I am specifically interested in your post # 866 in the now closed Michael Piper and Final Judgement thread. The next to last paragraph, in red is my main interest. I am wondering if you are quoting someone else or are stating your own conclusion. The paragraph mentions a "Jack" that owns a trucking company, and a reference about "Jack" possibly being J E Rose of Rose Truck Line. Bear in mind, I am just curious, but I am a native Texan and during the 1960s, as well as before and later, there was a Rose Truck Line, specifically J H Rose Truck Line based in Houston TX. And, at that time, J E Rose was an executive in the organization. Neither J H Rose, nor J E Rose, were named "Jack". In my"Student of Research" capacity going back over 25 years, I don't recall any reference to J E Rose regarding the JFK assassination or investigation of it. It's unlikely, to me, that that some of money would be available to be used for that purpose coming from "J E Rose". That being said, I would find it quite hard to believe regardless of the money factor. I do recall reading about a "Jack" with connections to the Houston area and being a "money man", but to my knowledge he was not associated with J H Rose Truck Line. But mainly, curious about the conclusion, and if the reference is for another J E Rose, I have no opinion on that.

[David Josephs]

Mr Joseph, I seem to be having trouble with my reading comprehension, most notably, with boldness differences, and especially the added colorization. I do blame my somewhat diminished reading comprehension ability. I am specifically interested in your post # 866 in the now closed Michael Piper and Final Judgement thread. The next to last paragraph, in red is my main interest. I am wondering if you are quoting someone else or are stating your own conclusion. The paragraph mentions a "Jack" that owns a trucking company, and a reference about "Jack" possibly being J E Rose of Rose Truck Line. Bear in mind, I am just curious, but I am a native Texan and during the 1960s, as well as before and later, there was a Rose Truck Line, specifically J H Rose Truck Line based in Houston TX. And, at that time, J E Rose was an executive in the organization. Neither J H Rose, nor J E Rose, were named "Jack". In my"Student of Research" capacity going back over 25 years, I don't recall any reference to J E Rose regarding the JFK assassination or investigation of it. It's unlikely, to me, that that some of money would be available to be used for that purpose coming from "J E Rose". That being said, I would find it quite hard to believe regardless of the money factor. I do recall reading about a "Jack" with connections to the Houston area and being a "money man", but to my knowledge he was not associated with J H Rose Truck Line. But mainly, curious about the conclusion, and if the reference is for another J E Rose, I have no opinion on that.

Well Mr. Trotter... I use formatting to differentiate between my words, other's words and what I want to emphasize.
You can ALWAYS copy and paste text into Notepad/Word if you don't like the way it looks.
I basically use italics for quoted material, BLUE for my own words if I am intermixing them into a post and RED for extra emphasis...

I posted the link to the post from which I pasted it
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....entry37850

I posted it as a rebuttal to the neverending references in that thread to Homer's statement, but to none of the CONTEXT related to the time period.

I appreciate you clearing up whether J E Rose may or may not have been the trucking company "Jack" owned... yet the poster does say POSSIBLY.
What does the "J" stand for in J E Rose?

Are you aware of any JACK's that owned a trucking firm in 1963? the "Rose" reference is purely speculation on the poster's part....

Plus... this is a 2nd hand statement from Hall... we don't even know who he said it to and who reported it said...

Thanks for your info... hopefully the NOTEPAD will make things easier for you to read my posts - if you are still interested - as I will not be changing how I post any time soon.

Cheers
DJ

Any thoughts on the supporting evidence that OSwald did indeed change his clothes?

[David Josephs]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....ntry236109

Here is another link to the interview as posted by Lee Farley... not sure how "Jack" giets into the conversation
DJ


Interview with Loran Hall, May 6, 1968, New Orleans, Louisiana

Q - JIM GARRISON, JAMES ALCOCK, ANDREW SCIAMBRA, TOM BETHELL, LOUIS IVON
A- LORAN HALL

Excerpt:

A. I didn't know anybody in Miami that was in NSRP. Somebody mentioned to me if I remember the name MILTEER and I might have met him. If I had met him it would have been at the book store that PATRICK hung around.

Q. The book store in Miami?

A. Yes

Q. What book store was that?

A. It was a, er, er...

Q. A right wing book store?

A. Yeah, a right wing book store.

Q. Did it have one of these names like Patrick Henry Book Store, or something like that?

A. Yeah, in fact I think that was the name of it.

Q. What about Dallas? Do you know any NSRP members in Dallas or who might be?

A. No. Of course, Dallas is a different breed of cat altogether. It's like at that meeting at LOGUE's house when the old boy jumped up and said rather than giving two thousand dollars for this thing here I'd rather donate to fifty thousand pot and have Kennedy killed. And like you can say that there's a possibility he might be in this.

Q. When was that said?

A. That would have been probably, I think it was either -- it would have to have been in June, at the June meeting I had there, on my way back to California or in October when I was going back down to Miami from California, and I don't remember what time it was.

Q. You don't remember who said that?

A. Yeah, I can tell you all about him. Him and his business partner had just bought another -- we were in LOGUE's office and there was five other people in there besides myself. There was LOGUE, myself, the two men who had the trucking company and a man I think that was at Texas Optical. I think, or Texas Instrument. I'm positive that it was one or the other. Anyway, the two men that were there that owned the truck company, they had just purchased another trucking comapny for I think it was two and half million dollars and this made them the largest truckline owner in either Texas or the United States, I forget which one it was. But they had just bought another truckline [bottom of page is cut off here] into a pot, and getting up a $20,000 pot, buying a boat, go over the Cuba, pull our raids inside Cuba, come back with boats that we could steal from Cuba, start our own fishing fleet, so we could be self-sufficient and still pull our raids from these mother ships. And he said, "Bull shit, rather than do this, I'd rather donate into a $50,000 pot and get Kennedy killed. Are you interested?" I said look, friend, I'll go this breaking the neutrality act but forget this. And the LOGUE jumps up and he says you'll not talk like that in this office because we don't know what's...we don't know if the room is bugged -- or something like that. And then another one jumps up and says, I think it was this guy's partner and he says, "Shit, then all we'd have is Johnson." And the original guy who made the offer says. "YEah, but at least he'll take care of Texas and us Texans." And this is where it dropped, right there.

[LR Trotter]

Mr Joseph, I probably went a little overboard with the post, but I was having trouble understanding where you were actually quoting. I normally follow your post okay. At least I think so. The J H Rose Truck Line was founded by Jesse H Rose, in the 1920s. His son, Jesse E "Ebb" Rose was probably born about that time, and he (Ebb) was also involved in Auto Racing. Along with other racing, as an owner and sometimes driver, he competed as a driver in about 3 Indianapolis 500s in the early '60s and finished on the lead lap at least once.
I have an opinion, only opinion, about "Jack". But, no known connection to any trucking company, however I will look. That could have been a "diversion" connection.
As for LHO changing clothes, I assume he did. However, I feel as though the notes of Capt Will Fritz are open to interpretation.
And, I do not expect you to change your posting methods. But, I will try harder to keep up. Thanks for your response.
mallprint:

[David Josephs]

Mr Joseph, I probably went a little overboard with the post, but I was having trouble understanding where you were actually quoting. I normally follow your post okay. At least I think so. The J H Rose Truck Line was founded by Jesse H Rose, in the 1920s. His son, Jesse E "Ebb" Rose was probably born about that time, and he (Ebb) was also involved in Auto Racing. Along with other racing, as an owner and sometimes driver, he competed as a driver in about 3 Indianapolis 500s in the early '60s and finished on the lead lap at least once.
I have an opinion, only opinion, about "Jack". But, no known connection to any trucking company, however I will look. That could have been a "diversion" connection.
As for LHO changing clothes, I assume he did. However, I feel as though the notes of Capt Will Fritz are open to interpretation.
And, I do not expect you to change your posting methods. But, I will try harder to keep up. Thanks for your response.
mallprint:

Thanks for that LR.... I was never doing it to be cute... I thought it made it easier to follow...

Is it possible that "Jack" was a nickname? or maybe just a ficticious name out of necessity.... not really the point at all though...
I am simply trying to say that Mosley and Homer and Mannie and the MONEY were involved in getting back into Cuba...

In regards to Oswald's clothes... There is more than Fritz' notes... the inventory from Beckley includes the brown shirt and grey slacks...
As well as Bookout's report of the same interrogation stating more specifically which clothes he put in a drawer in his room.

Cheers to you LR... You have rare and interesting info to share and it is greatly appreciated...

DJ

[LR Trotter]

The "Jack" I was referencing was known as Jack, and I believe it to be his real name, although possibly John. But, I don't think so. I prefer not to add the last name, simply because I don't have enough first hand information and do not wish to implicate someone being somehow involved in any assassination attempt against either US President Kennedy or Cuban Premier Castro, based on that information.
hutup:

[LR Trotter]

FWIW, it may be worth mentioning that if the Rose Truck Line mentioned was in fact J H Rose Truckline, the freight as well as destinations may have been the reason for possible name dropping. J H Rose Truck Line, at least during the '60s, was a dedicated oilfield/offshore oil rig equipment hauler, and had a number of destinations along the Louisiana Gulf Coast. Much of that freight was manufactured in/distributed from in and around the Houston, TX area to places like Lake Charles, Lafayette, Houma, and Morgan City, LA. Also, locations in California and Oklahoma received freight from JHR on a regular basis. The name, as well as the rose on the trucks, made for an easy to remember identity. Also mentioned is Texas Instruments, which I believe was, and/or is, in the oilwell supply/service industry. But, I believe Texas Optical may have been in the eyeglass/vision business. Once again, a possibility of name dropping, IMO.