David Josephs Wrote:The elephant being that "our new backers are Jews"... yet you seem to forget this was uttered on Nov 21, 1963...
"we now have plenty of money... our new backer are Jews - as soon as 'we' (or 'they') take care of Kennedy..." Doesn't that strike you as a little late for the 11/22 hit?
It all depends on when the sponsorship (not meant in the DP way) occurred? As was recorded in conspiracy history a lot of activity was happening in Dallas in that last week. You seem to be creating a strawman that this alleged Israeli influence happened on, and was confined to, the 21st. There's nothing to suggest that, in my opinion, and the theory is still safe, logically.
As I've said before, what makes Echevarria's statement incriminating is the fact that, if you trace the backers of the Cuban actions, they were pretty much the same people all along. The fact Echevarria says "new" backers means that these persons were people other than the previous backers. If you've studied this enough, and read Piper, you would realize that this is highly suggestive that some facilitating force used Israel and Mossad's difficulty with JFK over Dimona to secure their involvement in the assassination. I would even dare suggest that Angleton played this breakdown with Ben Gurion to enlist endorsement through this already-existing Mediterranean underground/Swiss bank cabal. If indeed Mossad had given the green light to the assassination, or perhaps it would be better put 'cooperation', what you would see is an energizing of their pro-zionist assets in the American underground. And low and behold you see a sudden indication of "jews" suddenly becoming "new backers" in an American CIA effort that was dovetailed with Dallas. Let's not be shy here or play dumb. Someone activated it's American syndicate assets in solidarity with this new shadow government and its interests. The main interests at the time being Castro and Dallas. The impetus almost definitely came from the American side. Ben Gurion's problem was exploited in order to take advantage of the cabal's needs. Perhaps Piper is so interested in nailing Israel he ignores the true path of influence, however the network he fleshes-out is definitely accurate to how it was done and to whom the spoils were promised and, later, delivered.
Ruby was an old-time Cuban gun-runner so I don't see him being referred to as a "new jew backer". Echevarria is clearly talking about a new group acting under a new cause or influence.
David Josephs Wrote:To be honest Albert... I do not think one statement has anything to do with the other... the BACKERS were for Homer's group to invade Cuba and obviously Homer knows something about what's going to happen to Kennedy... then again the Cubans had been talking with the CIA about JFK for some time. Homer is adamant about checking into whether Mosley is CIA... his group does not seem to want any more CIA around... if the CIA was working with this group in association with JFK, Homer getting his weapons from the CIA should not be such a big deal... right?
Well, obviously Homer is more enthused about the new backers than CIA. First, we all know the Cuban exiles were inextricable from the conspirators to a certain degree. Their hatred over Kennedy's inaction at the Bay Of Pigs was exploited. Obviously the perk here was satisfaction of the Cubans' needs once they cooperated in getting rid of Kennedy. I think what is happening here is everyone with an interest in getting rid of Kennedy is being given a perk to assure their satisfaction and cooperation in the cover-up. Piper is correct in saying Israel was the single-most beneficiary of Kennedy's assassination.
I feel you are completely missing the relationship Lansky had to the Swiss bank network and how Israel's interests dovetailed with the US syndicate and it's need to get CIA cooperation to regain its Cuban casino operations in order to feed this dirty bank network fund that all three, CIA, Israel, and the mob, benefited from. When you follow the money there was serious mutual interest through the Lansky/Tibor Rosenbaum/Mossad connection. This is where they were getting the money to arm Israel with nuclear weapons.
I don't see anything here that necessarily conflicts with the Deep Political model.
Well Albert... I am trying to say that the Echevarria quote had to do with Anti-Castro Cuba's NEW BACKERS... not JFK's assassination.
And of course if ther was involvement it would have been before 11/21... but NEW BACKERS as of that day equated to Israel, to me, is a stretch that requires a bit more citing of evidence.
This is not to say that many factions of many organizations/countries were interested in the death of JFK... and benefitted from it in the aftermath.
I know I'm not crazy, just a little constructively paranoid... but McGeorge Bundy, who basically helped announce that there was no Conspiracy and that Oswald did it alone...
was very closely associated with the Council on Foreign Relations...
If you've read "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" and have done ANY research into the History of Money and Banking (Rothchilds, Morgans, Rockefellers)
you know that the "JEWISH" aspect of the world's power elite is very well entrenched...
I am Jewish. I KNOW that Jews have been very methodical at garnering control of the world's money supplies as well as ownership of a great many influential industries..
There are evil greedy people in ALL religions and races. Yet the Jewish Banking History is one of great greed, deception and control - which in turn created alliances with power and influence the world over.
Did the Mossad, Mafia, CIA, SS, FBI, MIC, ONI, etc, etc... kill JFK? No
Did MEMBERS of these organizations get manipulated into a position to cooperate or else...and manipulate others to do the same?
To me, that's a big yes.
============
Another person connected to Judaism and with connections to the CFR in the case worth looking at... and the man in charge of the Treasury and by default the SS.
C. Douglas Dillon
Life (I removed a few paragraphs that did not apply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Douglas_Dillon)
Although Dillon grew up as a patrician, his paternal grandfather, Samuel Lapowski, was a poor Jewish immigrant from Poland. After leaving Poland, his grandfather settled in Texas after the American Civil War. Dillon's father Clarence later changed his family name to Dillon, after his grandmother's maiden name.[SUP][2][/SUP] Dillon's mother, Anne Douglass, is descended from Grahams Lairds of Tamrawer Castle at Kilsyth, Stirling, Scotland.
Curtis LeMay was fiercely pro-American. Therefore, is America a Sponsor of JFK's assassination?
Thanks,
Charles
No that's not what I'm saying at all.
LeMay, like Hoover and quite a few others, detested JFK. He was so bloodthirsty he even once suggested that the US should lauch a pre-emtive nuclear attack on the Soviets. The hatred he had for this peace loving President was reciprocated by JFK who couldn't stand the sight of this man.
Hence LeMay required no arm twisting when it came to actively participating in the lie that JFK was a victim of lone nut LHO. He wanted Kennedy buried and forgotten post haste. There's also a chance he had foreknowledge of the assassination, so he didn't want to give even the slightest hint of any wider conspiracy of which he may have been a participant.
David, between Fletcher Prouty and Greg Burnham, McGeorge Bundy looks good for blocking the final B-26 raid on Castro's three armed T-33 jets, as well as authoring the NSAM 273 draft bridge document.
The fact that McGeorge Bundy was present at this first meeting is significant because it was Bundy who made the telephone call to Gen Cabell, Deputy Director of Central Intelligence at 9:30 P.M. the evening before the landing of the Brigade in Cuba, that ordered cancellation of the crucial air strike from Nicaragua, as confirmed by the Cuban Study Group's unanimous report. That Report cites that cancellation as "probably the most serious" of its finding of "Immediate Causes of Failure of the Operation Zapata."
Perhaps the most powerful evidence indicating that select Senior Administration Officials and Senior Military personnel may have had foreknowledge of the plot to assassinate the 35th President of the United States, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, is found in the DRAFT of National Security Action Memorandum (NSAM) Number 273. There are several smoking guns, but the one that initially stands out as the most obvious is the date of the DRAFT, which was subsequently signed by McGeorge Bundy, Special Assistant to the President for National Security. The DRAFT was written and dated November 21st, 1963 less than 24 hours before the assassination. It was ostensibly the result of the meetings that took place the previous day at the Honolulu Conference.
A chilling observation by the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan in Vanity Fair presents a post-assassination McGeorge Bundy:
We went directly to the President's office which was torn apart with new carpets being put down in his office and the cabinet room. As if a new President were to take office. No one about save Chuck Daly. McGeorge Bundy appeared. Icy. Ralph Dungan came in smoking a pipe, quizzical, as if unconcerned. Then Sorensen. The three together in the door of the hallway that leads to the Cabinet room area. Dead silent. Someone said "It's over."
McGeorge's brother William was married to Mary Acheson daughter of Dean Acheson whom Donald Gibson indicates played a major role in planting the idea of the commission in the mind of the 36[SUP]th[/SUP] president.
I was always fascinated by the tale that Dean Acheson's omission of Korea from the stated U.S. defense perimeter in 1950 greenlighted Kim Il-Sung's attack (which already had the blessing of Stalin and Mao).
That one might play in the Orwellian quadrilateral then dally in assassination aftermath, itself the result of one's familyis this not how the game is played.
Not to insist that any of these are self-initiators. More likely, attuned through breeding and schooling, and long association, to the pipes, the pipes a-calling.
Regarding Dillon, Donald Gibson indicates he, with Henry Cabot Lodge, John Foster Dulles, and Dean Acheson, formed an obstacle to Kennedy's foreign policy. They took the side of French imperialism in Algeria and Indochina.
In the latter arena, it is fastidiously avoided that the president lost the debate.
On November 22, 1963.
Bundy and Dillon, part of the successful establishment following what Zelikow and May referred to as the shooting by one objecting to Kennedy's hostile policy toward Castro's Cuba.
David Josephs Wrote:Well Albert... I am trying to say that the Echevarria quote had to do with Anti-Castro Cuba's NEW BACKERS... not JFK's assassination.
And of course if ther was involvement it would have been before 11/21... but NEW BACKERS as of that day equated to Israel, to me, is a stretch that requires a bit more citing of evidence.
This is not to say that many factions of many organizations/countries were interested in the death of JFK... and benefitted from it in the aftermath.
I know I'm not crazy, just a little constructively paranoid... but McGeorge Bundy, who basically helped announce that there was no Conspiracy and that Oswald did it alone...
was very closely associated with the Council on Foreign Relations...
If you've read "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" and have done ANY research into the History of Money and Banking (Rothchilds, Morgans, Rockefellers)
you know that the "JEWISH" aspect of the world's power elite is very well entrenched...
I am Jewish. I KNOW that Jews have been very methodical at garnering control of the world's money supplies as well as ownership of a great many influential industries..
There are evil greedy people in ALL religions and races. Yet the Jewish Banking History is one of great greed, deception and control - which in turn created alliances with power and influence the world over.
Did the Mossad, Mafia, CIA, SS, FBI, MIC, ONI, etc, etc... kill JFK? No
Did MEMBERS of these organizations get manipulated into a position to cooperate or else...and manipulate others to do the same?
To me, that's a big yes.
============
Another person connected to Judaism and with connections to the CFR in the case worth looking at... and the man in charge of the Treasury and by default the SS.
C. Douglas Dillon
Life (I removed a few paragraphs that did not apply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Douglas_Dillon)
Although Dillon grew up as a patrician, his paternal grandfather, Samuel Lapowski, was a poor Jewish immigrant from Poland. After leaving Poland, his grandfather settled in Texas after the American Civil War. Dillon's father Clarence later changed his family name to Dillon, after his grandmother's maiden name.[SUP][2][/SUP] Dillon's mother, Anne Douglass, is descended from Grahams Lairds of Tamrawer Castle at Kilsyth, Stirling, Scotland.
I didn't know that about Dillon. Interesting. I never really believed he could have been in the conspiracy loop, mainly because he was a Kennedy appointee, but then again he was at the top of the Secret Service chain of command. Without Secret Service complicity, the assassination plan has to be aborted.
Yes I was just about to type the same thing. Great to see you here. I hope more will get tired of contending with all the lone nuts and other waccos at EF and add DPF to as a place to share their voice.
Dawn
Yes I was just about to type the same thing. Great to see you here. I hope more will get tired of contending with all the lone nuts and other waccos at EF and add DPF to as a place to share their voice.
Dawn
{blush}
Thanks Dawn... you spin your wheels over there hoping to at least get thru to the newbies who are there to learn something...
Although it is fun from time to time to ruffle the feathers of the Lamson/May/Walker/Ragoo Brigade and watch them scramble all over each other to avoid the topic while insulting the poster....
I've been here only a few days and have been exposed to some great threads and a wealth of info already - exactly what I was hoping for.... One was the Ford/DeLoach memo from 12/17/63 I had never seen... I mean I knew Ford was FBI, but when he says that two Commissioners are not convinced about a shot from the TSBD, the "Don't worry, it wont be a problem" line is chilling... .
FYI... current interest/project is the Harvey and Lee evidence that dovetails into the DPD-FBI transfer of evidence. I believe I've pretty well shown that the Pfeister W-2 was not in Irving.. in fact, the BYP themselves are not even on the inventory of items fround on 11/23... (CE2003)... Also reading "Wilderness of Mirrors" to get a better handle on the Anti-communist programs of Harvey and Angleton... along with providing good flavor for the time period - which imo is the most forgotten aspect in our discussions... looking at 1963 with 2012 eyes is very difficult without treue context. very interesting read so far btw.
just for fun... here is one of the overlay's that shows how Harvey and Lee are different people... the background picture is Oswald in a Cap in military dress... on the left is the SSS ID photo seen on a number of HARVEY's ID, while on the right is the passport photo from the same time period...
I align to the right eye and eyebrow to fit exactly and then try to align the rest of the face... LEE on the right is a match... not so much on the left.
David Josephs Wrote:Well Albert... I am trying to say that the Echevarria quote had to do with Anti-Castro Cuba's NEW BACKERS... not JFK's assassination.
And of course if ther was involvement it would have been before 11/21... but NEW BACKERS as of that day equated to Israel, to me, is a stretch that requires a bit more citing of evidence.
I'm not sure if you've read Final Judgment? Piper does a good job of showing how those two interests, Castro and Dallas, were practically indistinguishable according to the needs of the cabal. As I already wrote, those who assassinated Kennedy were taking care of the wants of different groups like the Israelis and the Cubans. However if you read Piper you'll see their interests were merged through the Mediterranean underground Swiss bank dirty money laundry network that directly benefited all involved as one mutual cause.
With all due respect your entry reads like an attempt to ignore all this and seek a separation between those interests that Piper has already disproven. There's a reason the exiles were so involved in the assassination and it isn't because those actions were mutually exclusive. Again, if you read Final Judgment you'll find the evidence you call for explained in extensive detail. Also, if you read these posts, you still haven't explained what exactly Echevarria meant by that? Like I said before, there's no doubt Echevarria was referring to a new group of backers other than the previous group. Well, the previous group was everyone we already know, like JMWAVE, the Banister group, the Sturgis Miami group, Ruby, Interpen, etc.. So why would Echevarria be referring to this new group specifically as "Jews"? And who then does that make them? What Piper does a good job of showing is how this Lansky-led jewish syndicate treasurer group was, to a man, zealously pro-zionist. He also shows how this loyalty was bound in concrete through the Mediterranean underground and Swiss money laundry banks. I bet some who have been getting away with dismissing all this as "anti-semitism" are itching to accuse me of that, however, as is apparent from their silence, Piper's evidence wins-out over those accusations because it is based in provable fact. Sorry, David, but I think it's obvious you're asking for evidence beyond the obvious and the only way you can float your position is if you ignore the death struggle Ben Gurion had with Kennedy over nuclear weapons and the timeliness of Echevarria's comment. Not being able to describe who those "new jew backers" were is, to me, like saying "I need you to prove the spark was responsible for the explosion." The onus is clearly backwards here, in my opinion. I also think the Liberty was directly related to the free feeling this cabal had over what they had gotten away with with Kennedy. Something, no matter how some try to assign it to rogues, was inevitably protected by their host bureaucracies.
David Josephs Wrote:Did the Mossad, Mafia, CIA, SS, FBI, MIC, ONI, etc, etc... kill JFK? No
Did MEMBERS of these organizations get manipulated into a position to cooperate or else...and manipulate others to do the same?
To me, that's a big yes.
My problem with this is that you just admitted Mossad probably did have some involvement. (Angleton was directly involved in the formation of Mossad through the OSS) If you mention the involvement of any of those other groups you'll have no problem. However if you mention the involvement of Mossad you'll be crushed and vilified as a vile anti-semite. Even by conspiracy exposers. Perhaps Piper ignored the greater evidence to flirt with the suggestion Ben Gurion was the Sponsor and initiator. He's wrong on that because a total analysis of the entire conspiracy shows it predates Ben Gurion's problem and originates from US-oriented groups and interests. However he's dead-on in showing the network that Israel was tied to as facilitators. Something no serious, objective Assassination researcher has the right to ignore or dismiss as "anti-semitism".
Who were the 'Jews' Echevarria was referring to? And what was their agenda? Honestly David, which cause would "new backer jews" be more likely to get behind, Cuba or Dimona? And do you understand that the network Piper elaborates shows that support of Cuba was indeed support of Dimona through that network?
Unfortunately Piper's evidence makes frightening sense. There's another consideration that probably drove Ben Gurion to the breaking point. If his consent in Kennedy's assassination was exposed it might threaten the future existence of his nation. If somehow the fact Ben Gurion, or zionist covert interests, participated in Kennedy's assassination got out and was known by the American public it could possibly cause fatal political damage to Israel. That was something Ben Gurion had to weigh. The only way he would give approval to 'new jew backers' would be if CIA gave a guarantee that this information would never the see the light of day in the US media. And, once again, low and behold, what do we see post-assassination? We see an unprecedented Operation Mockingbird censoring and corruption of the US media directly oriented to this interest. Again, David, forgive me if I groan slightly when you so sincerely call for evidence...
