13-11-2012, 07:52 AM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2012, 11:54 AM by Peter Lemkin.)
FWIW, Tom Wilson, using sophisticated computer modeling and analysis, felt one shot came from the sewer - as have many others. Much of his work, while outlined in a book, is still being closely guarded by his family and not released for researchers to vet or inspect the work he did in detail. I have personally tried, without success, to get the family and their lawyer to think about releasing Wilson's work to some university archive, etc. My requests are met with silence except by one involved who says they are powerless to move the others. Sad how the research community [in this case the family of a deceased member of it] don't work together. Personally, I think Wilson's work has great potential for validity - but needs validation - and that can not be done without access to his original working files, notes, databases and equipment, programs, etc. This thread on the Z-Film is very interesting! I speculate, without proof, that the 'other film' some few have seen is the original - before doctoring in speed, frames, added 'artistic' work, etc. I think to put the Z-film 'debate' to rest, getting hold of a copy of the other film will be necessary.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
13-11-2012, 12:41 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2012, 04:13 PM by Peter Lemkin.)
Phil Dragoo Wrote:Peter
I have the posthumous A Deeper, Darker Truth: Tom Wilson's Journey into the Assassination of John F. Kennedy, and found it fascinating.
Dan Rather wouldn't meet with him, sending a flunky to claim there was no proof of conspiracy.
Wouldn't the family's and lawyer's refusal to give up Wilson's material be due to threats from shadowy quarters?
Perhaps the infamous blackbag job has taken the lot.
I always thought here was a steel analyst using the tools of his profession, a line of work which brooks no nonsense.
He identified dangerous impurities in the American alloy which unaddressed insure short service life and catastrophic failure.
Mostly I put what I knew about Wilson and my work with him on the EF [now all erased]...and have put bits and pieces of it here on this Forum. He analyzed several photos for me - one very important one [in both his and my mind]. As a scientist I find his methodology possible - it only needs reproducing it to convince others of its validity. That is what the 'family' is preventing - out of Naivte or threat or other, I do NOT know! I know approximately the size of the materials....rather huge!...much to most not even mentioned in the book. As you say, he was a steel quality-control engineer with expertise in computer visualization and evaluation. He happened to live near Dr. Wecht and Wilson and Wecht met. Wilson belatedly became interested in Dallas, something he had assumed was as the government had said. Using his techniques he soon proved to himself that all was lies and that he could use his techniques to find things in photos and on evidence that ordinary techniques could not. He had his own main-frame computer and developed his own software. Lucky for us, todays top of the line computers could handle what his mainframe could. I spent many emails and letters, as did Jack White trying to persuade first he, then the family to be more open with his materials to the research community. So far, to no avail. I have the contacts with the lawyer and the family. Originally, Wilson very, VERY naively was going to sue various persons and entities of the US Govt. present and former for misprision of justice, lies, conspiracy, cover-up and treason, etc.. He never got to first base......
However, he did find many interesting potential new clues, which most in the research community won't accept UNTIL his methodology is shown to be repeatable - it being so alien and impenetrable a technique to most.
His help on 911 would also have been sterling.
A person I trust, who had custody of most of the materials, assures me they are intact and protected....if unavailable. However, Wilson once handed several 'banker's boxes' of his work summary on Dallas - visually showing and explaining what he had found - to the FBI. I even have the name of the agent who accepted it, and a witness to its being accepted by that agent in the Dallas FBI Office. Guess what...the FBI denies they ever had this material - or any materials from Wilson. :poketongue:
N.B., Wilson did a little work on and with the Z-Film, but died before the major proofs of forgery, alteration, copies, et al. came out.
I'd also add that Wilson was accepted as an expert witness, without challenge, in many forensic court cases, using exactly the same techniques he used on the Dallas evidence.
All we have 'out there' other than bits and pieces I could add, as could a few others who had contact with him, such as Dr. Wecht, is his book. Do read it!!!!
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
I would add to Peter's important commentary the fact that on one occasion only I sat across a table from Tom Wilson and literally begged him to come forward with all of his material in ways that would protect him and his family. I also focused on the need for independent verification/replication of his methods.
Charles Drago Wrote:I would add to Peter's important commentary the fact that on one occasion only I sat across a table from Tom Wilson and literally begged him to come forward with all of his material in ways that would protect him and his family. I also focused on the need for independent verification/replication of his methods.
He would have none of it.
I wonder why he would have none of it. I have read the book "A deeper darker truth" but i was not convinced by Wilson's analysis.
It seemed to be far fetched, there were shots from all over the place, every single location that has been proposed. He also believed in Badgeman and in the Elm Street sewer theory. I have written in the past regarding the sewer shot but i will not give it credit, until someone comes forward and proves that the sewage pipes were bigger in diameter that would easily fit an adult in 1963 and that were replaced with smaller pipes sometime afterwards, But he'll need to show evidence to back it up.
Charles Drago Wrote:I would add to Peter's important commentary the fact that on one occasion only I sat across a table from Tom Wilson and literally begged him to come forward with all of his material in ways that would protect him and his family. I also focused on the need for independent verification/replication of his methods.
He would have none of it.
I wonder why he would have none of it. I have read the book "A deeper darker truth" but i was not convinced by Wilson's analysis.
It seemed to be far fetched, there were shots from all over the place, every single location that has been proposed. He also believed in Badgeman and in the Elm Street sewer theory. I have written in the past regarding the sewer shot but i will not give it credit, until someone comes forward and proves that the sewage pipes were bigger in diameter that would easily fit an adult in 1963 and that were replaced with smaller pipes sometime afterwards, But he'll need to show evidence to back it up.
His technique is eminently valid and usable IMHO. The conclusions drawn by him may not all be 100% on the mark, in that you are missing the main point and value of his research technique. That said, I'd say any of his conclusions lend weight to others that coincide. His use of measuring angles was a later activity, and much of that was based on assumptions about the Z-film [with the obvious problems there] and some other films/photos and evidence.
A shooter in the sewer wouldn't need to go far...a few meters/yards to the manhole cover just behind the fence - to escape - if someone was covering for him as lookout...and they could also have long waited just where they were - no one was going to look in there! If they waited until dark, they could have come out directly above - again with helpers - of which there were many.
Wilson's main technique involved identification of what a material was [glass, metal - even type, plastic, wood, cloth - even tone and likely color, etc.]. He could also see patterns and outlines of ovjects not visible in normal photo analysis.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
13-11-2012, 05:14 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2012, 05:37 PM by Vasilios Vazakas.)
I can appreciate what you said about the sewer. What about the badgeman?
Wilson also believed that a bullet hit the throat from the front, while Jack White
did not agree with that theory, he argued that a frontal bullet could have not pierced the collar
and that a bullet did not penetrate the neck tie.
Jack wondered if a fragment of glass from the windshield bullet had penetrated the tie.
Someone else had suggested that the wound in the throat was caused by a piercing needle with poison at Parkland
to ensure the death of the President, who could have been dangerous if allowed to survive even with heavy wounds.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:I can appreciate what you said about the sewer. What about the badgeman?
Wilson also believed that a bullet hit the throat from the front, while Jack White
did not agree with that theory, he argued that a frontal bullet could have not pierced the collar
and that a bullet did not penetrate the neck tie.
Jack wondered if a fragment of glass from the windshield bullet had penetrated the tie.
Someone else had suggested that the wound in the throat was caused by a piercing needle with poison at Parkland
to ensure the death of the President, who could have been dangerous if allowed to survive even with heavy wounds.
I'm certainly no expert, but based only on the statements made by Mr and Mrs Newman, Mr Brehm, and Mr Zapruder on the afternoon of 11/22/63, I find it hard to believe that JFK was still alive by the time the limo passed under the RR underpass leaving Dealey Plaza. And, I wonder if a bullet/object penetrating the limo windshield possibly caused a reaction by the driver to stop/slow momentarily creating an easier to hit victim. Maybe a signal near the victim for a shooter from the front?
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:I can appreciate what you said about the sewer. What about the badgeman?
Wilson also believed that a bullet hit the throat from the front, while Jack White
did not agree with that theory, he argued that a frontal bullet could have not pierced the collar
and that a bullet did not penetrate the neck tie.
Jack wondered if a fragment of glass from the windshield bullet had penetrated the tie.
Someone else had suggested that the wound in the throat was caused by a piercing needle with poison at Parkland
to ensure the death of the President, who could have been dangerous if allowed to survive even with heavy wounds.
I'm certainly no expert, but based only on the statements made by Mr and Mrs Newman, Mr Brehm, and Mr Zapruder on the afternoon of 11/22/63, I find it hard to believe that JFK was still alive by the time the limo passed under the RR underpass leaving Dealey Plaza. And, I wonder if a bullet/object penetrating the limo windshield possibly caused a reaction by the driver to stop/slow momentarily creating an easier to hit victim. Maybe a signal near the victim for a shooter from the front?
I linked to the post with the image of JFK sitting up at z456 or so.... at least it APPEARS as if JFK is sitting up.
I, personally, am still dealing with the windshield hole... with as many people saying they saw a hole, with the statements from the Ford plant worker who helped create copies and DESTROY the original...
I lean toward there being a hole
From where & when do you suppose this hole was created?
If we are lining up throat, windshield and shooter... it SHOULD be easy to tell if a frontal shot is even possible...
Except in most cases the shooter would have to be on the overpass over the MAIN STREET section....
I noticed this "thing" on the overpass in Dillard... yet it is not there in Cancellare's photo...
Neither of the SS men - including Roy "Flurry of shots" Kellerman says anything about a bullet passing between them and thru the windshield.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you able to state with certainty there was no crack in that windshield prior to the shooting on November 22?
Mr. GREER. Yes, sir; I am sure there was nothing wrong with that windshield prior to that because I would have it was almost in front of me and I examined the car, I looked it all over when I got there, I saw it was clean and everything, the windshield. I didn't see this ever at any time previous.
Now how in the world do either of these men miss this crack? and be willing to testify that it was not there...
Back to the WHY, Charles... and how complicit the SS men were... and what the WCR does to exonnerate them:
(f)Within these limitations, however, the Commission finds that the agents most immediately responsible for the President's safety reacted promptly at the time the shots were fired from the TSBD.
