01-01-2011, 08:15 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2011, 04:42 PM by Jim DiEugenio.)
Joseph Green's reply to Nelson, which Fetzer was never going to post:
Joseph Green replies:
"Kevin Costner (as Jim Garrison): "I'm sorry, Mr. Ferrie, but I simply find your story unbelievable."
Joe Pesci (as David Ferrie):"Really? What part?"
I am sorry for not recommending Mr. Nelson's book. Nothing personal was intended.
Just for the record, I am not (so far as I am aware) a minion of Jim DiEugenio. It's clear that some people seem to think that DiEugenio either ghostwrites the reviews or sits behind the scenes running the machinery, like some sort of Lyndon Johnson figure. For example, I wasn't necessarily expressing a negative view of Caro's scholarship, as Nelson seems to think. What I was saying was this: the heavy reliance on a single source means that the book borrows a great deal from Caro rather than introducing original research, just as the middle section heavily borrows from Barr McLellan. There is not, on its face, anything wrong with that, but it does mean that the value of the book entirely rests on whether the interpretation of the previously written material is correct or not. If the thesis doesn't work, then the book is a just a summary of a rather odd juxtaposition of other authors. For another, I mentioned Ed Tatro because he is a well-known figure associated with the LBJ thesis, and because I happen to personally like him. So far as I know, he has not been "officially endorsed" by CTKA. I think some folks are reading a bit too much into this.
Nelson's book posits that LBJ was the mastermind of JFK's assassination. That requires two elements of proof, then: (1) LBJ was a mastermind and (2) LBJ organized JFKs assassination. And I gave Nelson credit for sticking to his guns on that thesis and riding it out to the end. I just don't think that he succeeded in making his case, and feel like I explained why in the review. There is not, so far as I can detect, any evidence that Johnson was a mastermind capable of arranging something like the JFK plot (and, more specifically, arranging the plot in the way that Nelson presents, with Liftonite body alteration, not as a real-time reaction to events but in accord with prior pre-planning). Box 13 is not evidence of this, and nor is Johnson's maneuvering to get onto the ticket in 1960. If anything, the prior murders attributed to Johnson, assuming he did "mastermind them" are notable for their crudeness of execution, not their detailed planning. This seems almost too obvious to even reply with.
A couple of long quotes follow.
Nelson writes:"All of his actions at Love Field were part of his grand scheme; nothing he did was spontaneous and without some underlying purpose: By taking over Air Force One and holding it on the tarmac while he waited for JFK's body to arrive with his widow, he could force the Secret Service agents to quickly secure the body, wresting it away from the hapless Dr. Rose and eliminate any chance that a rigorous, well-executed autopsy would be performed. He had clearly planned this weeks before, knowing that a "special" autopsy would be necessary, one that would obliterate any evidence that Kennedy was shot from anywhere but behind." (546)
Nelson writes: "In the aftermath of the assassination, the"invisible hand" quickly produced a "verdict" for the hapless "patsy" followed by a curtailed and corrupted "investigation" which was given over to a commission which completely accepted the tainted FBI reports, added their own distorted analysis, and fabricated evidence based largely on the most incredible witnesses creating fanciful if outrageously absurd "theories" in the process , and dutifully added the imprimatur of the U.S. government to its report back to the instigator of the entire crime; only Lyndon B. Johnson was in a position to control every aspect of the pre- and post-assassination conspiracies." (669)
In other words, LBJ actually knew in advance that the Secret Service would take the body out of Texas, he knew the autopsy at Bethesda would be compromised, and knew that Horne/Lifton like, there would be a secret pre-autopsy that would result in surgery that would create "trajectory reversal". Then, Johnson controlled every aspect of an official investigation that, as Don Gibson has shown, he did not even wish to create. And if one follows the executive session hearings, it is pretty clear that, Dulles, Ford and McCloy actually controlled the Commission.
So if someone really believes Nelson's statements to be true, then God bless, I am certainly not going to convince that person otherwise. As I have noted, virtually the entire value of the book rests on whether Nelson's interpretation of his grab-bag of sources, good and bad, is accurate. And as I have further noted, Nelson thinks that: (1) LBJ had foreknowledge of the need for head surgery on JFK's body and that he would need to get the body out of his home state of Texas, (2) that it would be possible to get the body while he was distracting everyone with his swearing-in ceremony, (3) that the murder of J.D. Tippit had nothing to do with the assassination, (4)that Oswald was a deluded loner who dreamed about being a spy, (5) that J. Edgar Hoover and Curtis LeMay would take direction from Johnson, (6) that Bobby Kennedy was involved in Marilyn Monroe's death, etc. I let the reader make his or her own judgment about those aspects. If those seem like plausible conclusions, then you may like this book better than I did."
Joseph Green replies:
"Kevin Costner (as Jim Garrison): "I'm sorry, Mr. Ferrie, but I simply find your story unbelievable."
Joe Pesci (as David Ferrie):"Really? What part?"
I am sorry for not recommending Mr. Nelson's book. Nothing personal was intended.
Just for the record, I am not (so far as I am aware) a minion of Jim DiEugenio. It's clear that some people seem to think that DiEugenio either ghostwrites the reviews or sits behind the scenes running the machinery, like some sort of Lyndon Johnson figure. For example, I wasn't necessarily expressing a negative view of Caro's scholarship, as Nelson seems to think. What I was saying was this: the heavy reliance on a single source means that the book borrows a great deal from Caro rather than introducing original research, just as the middle section heavily borrows from Barr McLellan. There is not, on its face, anything wrong with that, but it does mean that the value of the book entirely rests on whether the interpretation of the previously written material is correct or not. If the thesis doesn't work, then the book is a just a summary of a rather odd juxtaposition of other authors. For another, I mentioned Ed Tatro because he is a well-known figure associated with the LBJ thesis, and because I happen to personally like him. So far as I know, he has not been "officially endorsed" by CTKA. I think some folks are reading a bit too much into this.
Nelson's book posits that LBJ was the mastermind of JFK's assassination. That requires two elements of proof, then: (1) LBJ was a mastermind and (2) LBJ organized JFKs assassination. And I gave Nelson credit for sticking to his guns on that thesis and riding it out to the end. I just don't think that he succeeded in making his case, and feel like I explained why in the review. There is not, so far as I can detect, any evidence that Johnson was a mastermind capable of arranging something like the JFK plot (and, more specifically, arranging the plot in the way that Nelson presents, with Liftonite body alteration, not as a real-time reaction to events but in accord with prior pre-planning). Box 13 is not evidence of this, and nor is Johnson's maneuvering to get onto the ticket in 1960. If anything, the prior murders attributed to Johnson, assuming he did "mastermind them" are notable for their crudeness of execution, not their detailed planning. This seems almost too obvious to even reply with.
A couple of long quotes follow.
Nelson writes:"All of his actions at Love Field were part of his grand scheme; nothing he did was spontaneous and without some underlying purpose: By taking over Air Force One and holding it on the tarmac while he waited for JFK's body to arrive with his widow, he could force the Secret Service agents to quickly secure the body, wresting it away from the hapless Dr. Rose and eliminate any chance that a rigorous, well-executed autopsy would be performed. He had clearly planned this weeks before, knowing that a "special" autopsy would be necessary, one that would obliterate any evidence that Kennedy was shot from anywhere but behind." (546)
Nelson writes: "In the aftermath of the assassination, the"invisible hand" quickly produced a "verdict" for the hapless "patsy" followed by a curtailed and corrupted "investigation" which was given over to a commission which completely accepted the tainted FBI reports, added their own distorted analysis, and fabricated evidence based largely on the most incredible witnesses creating fanciful if outrageously absurd "theories" in the process , and dutifully added the imprimatur of the U.S. government to its report back to the instigator of the entire crime; only Lyndon B. Johnson was in a position to control every aspect of the pre- and post-assassination conspiracies." (669)
In other words, LBJ actually knew in advance that the Secret Service would take the body out of Texas, he knew the autopsy at Bethesda would be compromised, and knew that Horne/Lifton like, there would be a secret pre-autopsy that would result in surgery that would create "trajectory reversal". Then, Johnson controlled every aspect of an official investigation that, as Don Gibson has shown, he did not even wish to create. And if one follows the executive session hearings, it is pretty clear that, Dulles, Ford and McCloy actually controlled the Commission.
So if someone really believes Nelson's statements to be true, then God bless, I am certainly not going to convince that person otherwise. As I have noted, virtually the entire value of the book rests on whether Nelson's interpretation of his grab-bag of sources, good and bad, is accurate. And as I have further noted, Nelson thinks that: (1) LBJ had foreknowledge of the need for head surgery on JFK's body and that he would need to get the body out of his home state of Texas, (2) that it would be possible to get the body while he was distracting everyone with his swearing-in ceremony, (3) that the murder of J.D. Tippit had nothing to do with the assassination, (4)that Oswald was a deluded loner who dreamed about being a spy, (5) that J. Edgar Hoover and Curtis LeMay would take direction from Johnson, (6) that Bobby Kennedy was involved in Marilyn Monroe's death, etc. I let the reader make his or her own judgment about those aspects. If those seem like plausible conclusions, then you may like this book better than I did."