24-05-2011, 12:47 PM
Wait a minute...are you telling me that New York City had NO jurisdiction over an event that killed almost 3,000 of its citizens?? I'm sorry, sir, but that is complete and utter BULLSHIT. Terrorism or not, New York City had every right to declare the Twin Towers a crime scene, because that's exactly what it was, no ifs, ands, or buts. Let me remind you that after the first WTC attack in 1993, it was the NYPD, in addition with the FBI, that coordinated the scene, sealed it off, and treated it like the crime scene that it was. THAT is a big reason why Ramzi Yousef and his gang were found out and tried and convicted for their roles in that crime. I do NOT want to hear any bullshit about how "9/11 changed everything", because before 9/11, the WTC was New York City's major landmark...not the federal government's. 9/11 and pre-9/11, anything like that that happened in New York City was the jurisdiction of the city, not the federal government. Remember, before 9/11, the war on terrorism was in its beginning stages...not like it is now. I absolutely cannot believe that you made a statement that essentially ratifies the destruction of a crime scene before ANY meaningful forensic analysis was performed on the scene...the CRIME SCENE, I repeat. Let us not forget that this isn't the first time that the federal government has removed evidence in a crime scene that a state or city had every right to claim as their own and examine it as such. That day was November 22, 1963, when President John F. Kennedy's body was removed from Dallas, Texas before the city of Dallas and the state of Texas had a chance to formally examine the body in an autopsy. Remember, before then, the killing of a President was not a federal crime, that only happened after the assassination. And crime scene or not, the federal government had absolutely no right to remove any of that debris until it had been thoroughly looked at by competent experts.
I simply cannot believe you said that. My true disappointment goes even beyond what I just stated.
I simply cannot believe you said that. My true disappointment goes even beyond what I just stated.
Jeffrey Orling Wrote:Mr. Lewis,
I am sorry to have to point out that the World Trade Center site was NOT a crime scene. It should have neen treated as such, but GWBush took care of that by declaring almost immediately that we had been attacked... and attacked by Al Qaeda, a group of terrorists.
Attacks of war are not considered criminal matters under the jurisdiction of state or local authorities.
Terrorism had lived in a gray area in the law. Many terrorism cases were considered criminal acts and were investigated as such, with criminal trials and appropriate penalties which followed.
9/11 effectively changed that... the "war on terrorism" would not be dealt with as criminal activity. We've recently seen how supposedly (though many don't believe the account) OBL was simply killed, his body disposed of.. etc... with not even a need to bring him to trial, present evidence of his quilt for charges presented, or even evidence that he was assassinated.
You can't destroy evidence in a war from a local jurisdictional pov because these courts have no jurisdiction. Terrorism is an act of war not a crime!
We may not agree with this reasoning and it clearly has many troubling implications, but that is what we are up against, and perhaps why not case involving "evidence" of criminality has seen the light of day in a single city, state or federal court.
This appears clearly to be one of the national security state's tricks to use terrorism for their hidden agenda. All the extraordinary rendition, torture, drone strike, assassinations, warrantless spying, no fly lists, the USAPATRIOT Act, classification of people as enemy combatants with no legal rights and so forth a flow from declaring "terrorism" an act of war.
The notion of a war crime DOES exist and can be adjudicated in the ICC. And clearly the US is guilty of many war crimes. But no nation seems to want to take us on at the ICC and so we get away with murder... destroying evidence of crimes.... literally.
It's a brave new world.
"Logic is all there is, and all there is must be logical."
"Truth is logic, and logic is truth."
"In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely." - Hunter S. Thompson
"A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on. A psychotic is a guy who's just found out what's going on." - William S. Burroughs
"Truth is logic, and logic is truth."
"In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely." - Hunter S. Thompson
"A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on. A psychotic is a guy who's just found out what's going on." - William S. Burroughs