01-11-2012, 10:48 PM
In an attempt to examine WHY, I suggest we look at what portions of the motorcade/assassination experience are missing/suspect from ANY of the films....
and what significance that section of DP plays in the "story"...
1) Pinpointing the time duration from Z132 to Z133 and understanding whether this is a splice or Stop/Start of the camera
2) Understanding why the Towner film does not show the WIDE LEFT TURN onto Elm as described by Truly who was standing there...
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.
There are no other images/film of the complete Turn onto Elm...
3) Hills transition from QM to limo in what amounts to one step... while the limo is moving at over 8mph (see image)
4) Altgens and Brehm stating the limo barely moved more than 10-15 feet from 1st to 3rd shot...
5) Altgens telling us JFK was shot in the head just 15 feet from his location coupled with the Plat legend stating 313 was at 4+65 while the notes tell us it was at 4+95 feet, 30 feet further down the street
(thank you Tom Purvis)
Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; what you are saying is that picture 203 was taken at a time when the President's car had actually gone down Elm Street to a point past this tree that stands at the corner here, in the grassy area, outlined by Elm Street and a little street that runs down by the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - Now, the thing that is troubling me, though, Mr. Altgens, is that you say the car was 30 feet away at the time you took Commission Exhibit No. 203 and that is the time at which the first shot was fired?
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - And that it was 15 feet away at the time the third shot was fired.
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - But during that period of time the car moved much more than 15 feet down Elm Street going down toward the triple underpass?
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - I don't know how many feet it moved, but it moved quite a ways from the time the first shot was fired until the time the third shot was fired. I'm having trouble on this Exhibit No. 203 understanding how you could have been within 30 feet of the President's car when you took Commission Exhibit No. 203 and within 15 feet of the car when he was hit with the last shot in the head without having moved yourself. Now, you have previously indicated that you were right beside the President's car when he was hit in the head.
Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I was about 15 feet from it.
6) That Myers' calculations switch from the FRONT of the limo to JFK's POSITION in the limo as the limo turns onto Elm. This simple adjustment changes the distances by 15 feet or almost 15 frames at 18.3 and 10mph
7) Hudson telling us the shots were fired as the limo was even with the steps (see #5)
Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there.
Mr. LIEBELER - You think the last shot was fired and the car was about where it actually is in that picture when the third shot was fired?
Mr. HUDSON - Pretty close to it; yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired?
Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time.
Mr. LIEBELER - When the first shot was fired, were you looking at the presidential car then; could you see it then?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was coming around - it had just got around the corner,you see, from off of Houston Street, making that corner there, come off of Houston onto Elm.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did it look to you like the President was hit by the first shot?
Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't think so - I sure don't.
Mr. LIEBELER - You don't think he got hit by the first shot?
Mr. HUDSON - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - You say it was the second shot that hit him in the head?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - What happened after the President got hit in the head, did you see what he did, what happened in the car?
Mr. HUDSON - He slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy, she climbs over in the seat with him and pulls him over.
Mr. LIEBELER - Pulled him down in the seat?
Mr. HUDSON - Pulled him over in her lap like.
Mr. LIEBELER - If you don't think the Presidentgot hit by the first shot and yoy say he got hit in the head with the second shot -
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - And if we assume that he was shot twice, you would have to say that he was hit by the third shot; isn't that right?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - He was hit again after he got hit in the head?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think that could have been possible when Mrs. Kennedy pulled him over, do you think he could have got hit in the neck after he had been hit in the head?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes sir; I do
Mr. LIEBELER - He was still sitting far enough up in the car he could have been hit?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.
I think Z456 shows JFK sitting up as does 445, 453, 454, 455, 461, 466...
8) We do not see the QM after the assassination head shot(s) in any film or photo until McIntyre... and by then the QM has virtually caught the limo... HOW?
(btw - bt z475 the limo is gone under the overpass and QM is still nowhere to be seen... yet look at McIntyre....)
I think these are decent launching points for discussion
Cheers
DJ
and what significance that section of DP plays in the "story"...
1) Pinpointing the time duration from Z132 to Z133 and understanding whether this is a splice or Stop/Start of the camera
2) Understanding why the Towner film does not show the WIDE LEFT TURN onto Elm as described by Truly who was standing there...
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.
There are no other images/film of the complete Turn onto Elm...
3) Hills transition from QM to limo in what amounts to one step... while the limo is moving at over 8mph (see image)
4) Altgens and Brehm stating the limo barely moved more than 10-15 feet from 1st to 3rd shot...
5) Altgens telling us JFK was shot in the head just 15 feet from his location coupled with the Plat legend stating 313 was at 4+65 while the notes tell us it was at 4+95 feet, 30 feet further down the street
(thank you Tom Purvis)
Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; what you are saying is that picture 203 was taken at a time when the President's car had actually gone down Elm Street to a point past this tree that stands at the corner here, in the grassy area, outlined by Elm Street and a little street that runs down by the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - Now, the thing that is troubling me, though, Mr. Altgens, is that you say the car was 30 feet away at the time you took Commission Exhibit No. 203 and that is the time at which the first shot was fired?
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - And that it was 15 feet away at the time the third shot was fired.
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - But during that period of time the car moved much more than 15 feet down Elm Street going down toward the triple underpass?
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - I don't know how many feet it moved, but it moved quite a ways from the time the first shot was fired until the time the third shot was fired. I'm having trouble on this Exhibit No. 203 understanding how you could have been within 30 feet of the President's car when you took Commission Exhibit No. 203 and within 15 feet of the car when he was hit with the last shot in the head without having moved yourself. Now, you have previously indicated that you were right beside the President's car when he was hit in the head.
Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I was about 15 feet from it.
6) That Myers' calculations switch from the FRONT of the limo to JFK's POSITION in the limo as the limo turns onto Elm. This simple adjustment changes the distances by 15 feet or almost 15 frames at 18.3 and 10mph
7) Hudson telling us the shots were fired as the limo was even with the steps (see #5)
Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there.
Mr. LIEBELER - You think the last shot was fired and the car was about where it actually is in that picture when the third shot was fired?
Mr. HUDSON - Pretty close to it; yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired?
Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time.
Mr. LIEBELER - When the first shot was fired, were you looking at the presidential car then; could you see it then?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was coming around - it had just got around the corner,you see, from off of Houston Street, making that corner there, come off of Houston onto Elm.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did it look to you like the President was hit by the first shot?
Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't think so - I sure don't.
Mr. LIEBELER - You don't think he got hit by the first shot?
Mr. HUDSON - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - You say it was the second shot that hit him in the head?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - What happened after the President got hit in the head, did you see what he did, what happened in the car?
Mr. HUDSON - He slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy, she climbs over in the seat with him and pulls him over.
Mr. LIEBELER - Pulled him down in the seat?
Mr. HUDSON - Pulled him over in her lap like.
Mr. LIEBELER - If you don't think the Presidentgot hit by the first shot and yoy say he got hit in the head with the second shot -
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - And if we assume that he was shot twice, you would have to say that he was hit by the third shot; isn't that right?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - He was hit again after he got hit in the head?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think that could have been possible when Mrs. Kennedy pulled him over, do you think he could have got hit in the neck after he had been hit in the head?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes sir; I do
Mr. LIEBELER - He was still sitting far enough up in the car he could have been hit?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.
I think Z456 shows JFK sitting up as does 445, 453, 454, 455, 461, 466...
8) We do not see the QM after the assassination head shot(s) in any film or photo until McIntyre... and by then the QM has virtually caught the limo... HOW?
(btw - bt z475 the limo is gone under the overpass and QM is still nowhere to be seen... yet look at McIntyre....)
I think these are decent launching points for discussion
Cheers
DJ