Technical Hurdles Suggest Extensive Z-Film Alteration Highly Unlikely

[David Josephs]

So, we either have: a) an authentic film that shows evidence of a conspiracy, or b) a faked film that shows evidence of a conspiracy.

Same thing with the autopsy: a) either the wounds were altered and some witnesses were pressured to lie or b) the photos and x-rays were altered and some witnesses were pressured to lie.

And we're fighting about this? No wonder some people think we're kooks.

Amen. Some people need to argue for argument's sake it would seem.

Yup... or some of us want to understand the processes so we can identify the cast members to figure out the players from the played.
The only people who think we're kooks are the same people barring us from Dealey Plaza... you believe they will EVER take this anymore seriosuly than branding us kooks as often and as loudly as possible?

They call us kooks out of fear and from established tactics... Seeing these threads as FIGHTS rather than debates contributing to the knowledge base is frankly surprising.
===

Surgeon General of the Navy Kenney was with Humes and others when the 6:35 body arrived and thru the "alteration of the wounds"..... player or played?
Admiral Galloway delayed McHugh out front and got into the "decoy" ambulance with the casket... player or played?
Admiral Burkley - too many things to even name... player or played?

Chief Rowley has an 8mm film the night of the assassination which disappears to history... player or played?
Chief Rowley invents CE399... player or played?
Zapruder copies begin with 0185 and end with 0187, both of which do NOT appear on the films... player of played?

These are the DEEP questions from the DEEP POLITICS FORUM.... telling us the SPRING and FPS are the causes for the film in the Archives is insulting to anyone with a brain...
he was called on it... Help us or defend him... I posted how willing I am to learn anything that is offered with sufficient backing..

He stands by his posts.


Dawn...
Ask please once,
ask please twice,
ask yet again to please expand and explain... HELP us understand
and we get "sorry, that's your problem - I stick by what I posted"

what would you have us do... say thanks and let it stand?

If the posting members themselves cannot differentiate between "fighting" and "debate" in order to clarify the record... or expose attacks
what are we doing here...


----

Tracy -

what we have is a film that is regarded as THE most accurate representation of the assasination with not only a dubious possession chain, but obvious alterations from what was seen on the film that weekend as well what was seen on the ground and corroborated by multiple witnesses.

Let's just say for a second it IS authentic... AND shows evidence of more than one shooter, a conspiracy. Since 1975 not a single Mass Media entity has said so, has even tore it apart to SHOW us.
Have you seen the Discovery Channel's, "How the Zapruder film PROVES there was a conspiracy" TV special? of course not cause there will never be one...

The conspiracy is NOT the film or the autopsy report which are the props, the minutia... the conspiracy is, "You're going to believe US, NOT your lying eyes" for coming on 50 years...
and you have no idea who US is...

----

I will apologize now if my style and passion for the subject matter has offended anyone...

I felt I was polite and direct in my replies and requests until it became obvious there was another agenda...
I was then joined by those with much more experience with that kind of situation... with the same requests for the substance behind the thoughts

Do we maintain some minimum standard for the information posted here AS FACT...
or should we simply nod approvingly at anything thrown against the wall...

If not here, where?
If not now, when?

[Tracy Riddle]

The conspiracy is NOT the film or the autopsy report which are the props, the minutia... the conspiracy is, "You're going to believe US, NOT your lying eyes" for coming on 50 years...
and you have no idea who US is...

I agree with the first part, and I think I have a pretty good idea of who US is. Who do you think US is?

Also, as I've said before, my concern is with the mass of Americans who are not firmly in either camp (LN or CT), and who may consider us kooks because we fight tooth and nail over very small aspects of this large and complicated case.

[David Josephs]

The conspiracy is NOT the film or the autopsy report which are the props, the minutia... the conspiracy is, "You're going to believe US, NOT your lying eyes" for coming on 50 years...
and you have no idea who US is...

I agree with the first part, and I think I have a pretty good idea of who US is. Who do you think US is?

Also, as I've said before, my concern is with the mass of Americans who are not firmly in either camp (LN or CT), and who may consider us kooks because we fight tooth and nail over very small aspects of this large and complicated case.

Agreed... we could definitely use a bit more unity.... (the minutia will wear you down...)


Within the framework of the S-F-M model used here (although I am also thinking about this within a somewhat different model)
but within this framework...

One of the KEY aspects to the conspiracy was what the people would know about it... At the ownership levels of these comapnies (working back to the 50 or so comapnies in the 60's that owned most media) THESE companies and their ownership and operating boards contain decision makers that restricted the information offered thru their owned media outlets.

In the early sixties each major city had only a couple of papers and the Big 3 TV stations who in turn had owned the radio stations.

The Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Company entered broadcasting with the November 2, 1920
General Electric sold NBC to Comcast... yet owned many of the media outlets of the day

If there are SPONSORS who were able to control the message as well as the investigation, it was those who moved from Congress/Military to the private sector who in turn diversified these companies to also own media.

(before TV and even mass radio, the same group running the Federal Reserve and moving the CFR owned the majority of the only source of info - newspapers)

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
The Big Six[SUP][1][/SUP]Media OutletsRevenues (2009)[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NBCUniversal/Comcast[/TD]
[TD]NBC and Telemundo, Universal Pictures, Focus Features, 26 television stations in the United States and cable networks USA Network, Bravo, CNBC, The Weather Channel, MSNBC, Syfy, NBC Sports Network, Golf Channel, style., Esquire Network, E!, Cloo, Chiller, Universal HD and the Comcast SportsNet regional system. Was a joint venture in which Comcast held a controlling 51% stake and General Electric a 49% stake in from January 2011 to March 2013, now wholly owned by Comcast. Comcast also owns two sports teams, the Philadelphia 76ers and Philadelphia Flyers through a separate subsidiary.[/TD]
[TD]$157 billion[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]The Walt Disney Company[/TD]
[TD]Holdings include: ABC Television Network, cable networks ESPN, the Disney Channel, SOAPnet, A&E and Lifetime, 277 radio stations, music and book publishing companies, production companies Touchstone, and Walt Disney Pictures, Pixar Animation Studios, the cellular service Disney Mobile, and theme parks in several countries.[/TD]
[TD]$36.1 billion[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]News Corp/21st Century Fox[/TD]
[TD]Holdings include: the Fox Broadcasting Company; cable networks Fox News Channel, Fox Business Network, Fox Sports 1, National Geographic, Nat Geo Wild, FX, FXX, FX Movie Channel, and the regional Fox Sports Networks; print publications including the Wall Street Journal and the New York Post; the magazines Barron's and SmartMoney; book publisher HarperCollins; film production companies 20th Century Fox, Fox Searchlight Pictures and Blue Sky Studios; numerous websites including MarketWatch.com; and non-media holdings including the National Rugby League.[/TD]
[TD]$30.4 billion[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Time Warner[/TD]
[TD]Largest media conglomerate in the world, with holdings including: CNN, the CW (a joint venture with CBS), HBO, Cinemax, Cartoon Network/Adult Swim, HLN, NBA TV, TBS, TNT, truTV, Turner Classic Movies, AOL, MapQuest, Moviefone, Warner Bros. Pictures, Castle Rock and New Line Cinema, and more than 150 magazines including Time, Sports Illustrated, Fortune, Marie Claire and People.[/TD]
[TD]$25.8 billion[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Viacom[/TD]
[TD]Holdings include: MTV, Nickelodeon/Nick at Nite, VH1, BET, Comedy Central, Paramount Pictures, Paramount Home Entertainment, Atom Entertainment, and music game developer Harmonix. Viacom 18 is a joint venture with the Indian media company Global Broadcast News.[/TD]
[TD]$13.6 billion[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CBS Corporation[/TD]
[TD]Holdings include: CBS Television Network and the CW (a joint venture with Time Warner), cable networks CBS Sports Network, Showtime, TVGN; 30 television stations; CBS Radio, Inc., which has 130 stations; CBS Television Studios; book publisher Simon & Schuster.[/TD]
[TD]$13.0 billion[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Although Viacom and CBS Corporation have been separate companies since 2006, they are both partially owned subsidiaries of the private National Amusements company, headed by Sumner Redstone. As such, Paramount Home Entertainment handles DVD/Blu-ray distribution for most of the CBS Corporation library.

Others of note[edit source | editbeta]

Discovery CommunicationsOwns Discovery Channel, Animal Planet, Destination America, The Hub, Science, Military Channel, Investigation Discovery, Velocity, 3net, and distribution rights to BBC America and BBC World News.E. W. Scripps CompanyOwns Food Network, HGTV, Travel Channel, and Great American Country.DirecTVOwns Audience Network, Root Sports, and GSN. DirecTV has some ownership ties to News Corporation, but antitrust restrictions limit News Corporation's influence on DirecTV.Companies tied to Cablevision and the Dolan familyOwn AMC, IFC, MSG, Fuse, the Cleveland Indians, the New York Knicks and the New York Rangers.Oaktree Capital ManagementOwns the former assets of Westwood One (which includes Transtar Radio Networks, NBC Radio, and the Mutual Broadcasting System), Jones Radio Networks, Waitt Radio Networks, Townsquare Media (which owns Regent Communications, Gap Broadcasting, Millennium Broadcasting, and Double O Radio) and Dial Global, and joint owner of the Tribune Company (with Angelo, Gordon & Co. and JPMorgan Chase).Clear Channel CommunicationsOwns Premiere Networks (which in turn owns The Rush Limbaugh Show, The Sean Hannity Show, The Glenn Beck Program, Coast to Coast AM, American Top 40, Delilah, Fox Sports Radio, and The Jim Rome Show, all being among the top national radio programs in their category), a portion of Sirius XM Radio, and previously held a stake in Live Nation as well as several television stations (later under the management of Newport Television, and now owned by separate companies). Parent company Bain Capital also owns a share in The Weather Channel.
On the Military/Congressional side of things - "US" is the ONI, DIA - who in my opinion frames the CIA as scapegoat knowing they could cover themselves and no one would get thru to the real MILITARY SPONSORS (in the model here they would be Facilitators... which is one of my disagreements with the model.) Those at IMMIGRATION also had to be told to stand down... Whether these are SPONSORS in the model's sense of the word, I'm really not sure...

I have yet to see the list of SPONSORS for consideration... only the definition of the term. If Charles has a few interested parties in mind, please share... As I've written before, I firmly believe that the SPONSOR level takes advantage of situations since they don't necessarily involve themselves in the actions themselves. This in turn creates uncertainty... so bets are hedged.

At the end of the day, there had to be a motivation for those men at Bethesda to do what they did. Were they aware of the cross-fire... ?? Did it make sense to do a tracheotomy on a man with a skull as described by Boswell?
Adm Anderson and Gen LeMay and even Adm Taylor were all treated poorly by this PERSON... JFK. a 45 year old Commie sympathizer who was selling the Cold War down the river...

Could LeMay have been a SPONSOR? ANDERSON? Seems to me it was very possible given this definition.
SPONSORS -- Those with the authority andmotive to sanction the assassination and the connections to engage facilitatingagents and systems.


So that's my take on the US of the assassination from the Evica-Drago model.

===============


The other model involves seeing the SPONSORS as the opportunistic and greedy people they were... and not necessarily those that Sanctioned it... Harvey ran attacks while told to stop... Hunt and others (Angelton) continued to do what is the best interest of their country as they saw fit. Killing JFK may have been a lower level idea (Phillips, Hunt, Morales, Barnes, etc...) in which the cover-up was built-in. Too much would be exposed if a real investigation was to take place... Mafia, Cubans, Drugs, weapons, Private citizens, corporations... The SPONSORS - knowing it would happen, eventually (Tampa, Chicago) were in a position to exploit it.... and they did.

the onion has too many layers to be sure, EVER imo... suffice to say a bunch of very bad people did a (and many more) bad things under the guise of US patriotism and the fight against the enemy de jour... Some for love of country, some for love of profit, some for love of power.

and the wheels on the bus go round and round...

Thanks for asking.
DJ

[Gordon Gray]

The conspiracy is NOT the film or the autopsy report which are the props, the minutia... the conspiracy is, "You're going to believe US, NOT your lying eyes" for coming on 50 years...
and you have no idea who US is...

I agree with the first part, and I think I have a pretty good idea of who US is. Who do you think US is?

Also, as I've said before, my concern is with the mass of Americans who are not firmly in either camp (LN or CT), and who may consider us kooks because we fight tooth and nail over very small aspects of this large and complicated case.

I'd have to say, if an average citizen with doubts about the assassination, one of the 80% who believe it was a conspiracy with govt. involvement, but with little knowledge of the salient facts, were to read this thread, I think they would be driven into the LN camp not by the kookiness of the opinions expressed but by the by the kookiness of the behavior exhibited.

[Tracy Riddle]

Adm Anderson and Gen LeMay and even Adm Taylor were all treated poorly by this PERSON... JFK. a 45 year old Commie sympathizer who was selling the Cold War down the river...

Could LeMay have been a SPONSOR? ANDERSON? Seems to me it was very possible given this definition.
SPONSORS -- Those with the authority andmotive to sanction the assassination and the connections to engage facilitatingagents and systems.


So that's my take on the US of the assassination from the Evica-Drago model.

===============


The other model involves seeing the SPONSORS as the opportunistic and greedy people they were... and not necessarily those that Sanctioned it... Harvey ran attacks while told to stop... Hunt and others (Angelton) continued to do what is the best interest of their country as they saw fit. Killing JFK may have been a lower level idea (Phillips, Hunt, Morales, Barnes, etc...) in which the cover-up was built-in. Too much would be exposed if a real investigation was to take place... Mafia, Cubans, Drugs, weapons, Private citizens, corporations... The SPONSORS - knowing it would happen, eventually (Tampa, Chicago) were in a position to exploit it.... and they did.

the onion has too many layers to be sure, EVER imo... suffice to say a bunch of very bad people did a (and many more) bad things under the guise of US patriotism and the fight against the enemy de jour... Some for love of country, some for love of profit, some for love of power.

Yes, my suspicions include LeMay, Anderson, Thomas Power, Allen Dulles, Lyman Lemnitzer (booted upstairs to NATO commander where he had access to Gladio forces in Europe), Angleton, Harvey (in Rome, also with access to Gladio), David Atlee Phillips, maybe Richard Bissell, Desmond Fitzgerald,Tracy Barnes, Ted Shackley, George Joannides, David Sanchez Morales.

[Charles Drago]

Sponsors???

Not even REMOTELY possible.

Not according to the Evica-Drago Model.

Which is to say, informed common sense.

[Jim Hackett II]

The 1% or in my view 1/2%.
Global, all power centers in some fashion or another had to have given approval for the hit. Religious, Cultural, Political, Military and International Banksters.
They all knew.
In the middle of the Cold War the stability of the system had to be maintained.
Hence the absence of the "go code" on SAC bomber riding shotgun in the sky on Nov. 22, 1963. Control and Command could not be compromised in the shock of the deed.

I see the military as only reacting to a long sought "green-light" and having access to minions capable of Coup when knowing the apparatus that empowered them would cover up the act by necessity.
Spooks serve the 5 sided monument of Death and could work the public scenario.
Even in 1963 many people around me repeated "They got him". Knowing the LHO fable was exactly that before 1964 dawned.

As John Judge said "No matter who fired the bullets they came out of the Pentagon".

As the case of Martin King military intelligence did the deed, See W. Pepper's "Act of State" book.
As in the case of RFK, the spooks got him in service of the Empire including the Pentagon.
Dick Helms insisted no hypno-assassin ever came of the MK programs so he cancelled the program and the gullible public bought the BS and shortly "selected" RAYGUN.
Spook sh^t spattered on the electorate again to full effect of lies.

"Armies get angry when their war is taken away", as RFK was bound to do as well as open a real investigation into the Murders by State.
He had to be done in to protect the Empire.

My regret is the people of America, WeThePeople, let it all slide in '68. And in 1978, and in 1998. (HSCA and ARRB)
Partial disclosure is all you're gonna get WeThePeople, deal with it.
Watch us work in the 2000 Selection of the IDIOT. Deal with it.

America needs to grow some guts and confront the Empire, or concede the slavery system to their children and children's children and their .....
Either the People do it or someone else will. Tyranny always falls.

Or "go back to sleep America, we have it under control. Watch TV and take your Big Pharma legal drugs and you'll feel better".
The constant tension deal until the noose slips around your neck compliments of 1/2%.

[Charles Drago]

As John Judge said "No matter who fired the bullets they came out of the Pentagon".

"The Pentagon" collectively as Facilitator? Absolutely.

As Sponsor? Not a chance.

[Tracy Riddle]

The 1% or in my view 1/2%.
As in the case of RFK, the spooks got him in service of the Empire including the Pentagon.

The RFK case is tricky. I think the plotters were trying to set up al Fatah (Palestinian militants) as the patsy group to be blamed, hence all these Arab types hanging around Sirhan, like the Polka Dot Dress girl. Then you have the presence of Khaiber Khan in the RFK camp, who has ties to the Shah of Iran's secret police. Now if you realize that in 1968 the Shah's SAVAK, the CIA, and Israel's Mossad were in bed having a menage a trois (with Angleton as the key person here), a clearer picture begins to form. But once again, other elements in the government stepped in and decided to blame the lone nut.

[Gordon Gray]

If someone wanted to name the "sponsers", I would recommend they look at the major share holders in the Federal Reserve. There you would find the richest and most powerful families in the country, and most of the world, who controlled the economic and the policy agendas at that time.