Sean Murphy's research deserves more

[LR Trotter]

I must have missed the "around forty researchers" identification of Ms Sarah Stanton among the occupants of the not so large TSBD doorway/entrance porch area at the top of the stairway that appears to be about 10 feet wide. I believe it was B Wesley Frazier who mentioned her as being "heavy set", so I would appreciate the information as to which photograph image represents her. Unlike "around forty researchers", and I do not claim to be a researcher, I cannot determine whether the PrayerMan image is a male or female, nor have I seen any identification of an image representing Ms S Stanton. I have read the testimony of three people in or near the doorway porch area who mentioned that Ms Stanton was there, although admittedly, her exact position at the time of the film/photo is somewhat ambiguous, but apparently she was there.
::

[Donald Manning]

I must have missed the "around forty researchers" identification of Ms Sarah Stanton

[Albert Doyle]

Forget about PM being Oswald for the moment. Here is another good question for you. Is there anyone on the steps of the TSBD, other than PM, that has not been identified?

How did your Oswald avoid being identified when he was shoulder to shoulder with the people in the glass doorway on the way back in? As well as the people just inside?



Also, the Tippit case is a good analogy. Oswald was accused of being there in a loose analogy similar to his being in the doorway. If you look at the Tippit case there's a universe of conflicting witnesses, evidence, signs of police corruption and intrigue, and even murder of witnesses. Transpose that template to the Prayer Man Oswald claim and there's zero. That needs an explanation in my opinion.

[LR Trotter]

I must have missed the "around forty researchers" identification of Ms Sarah Stanton

I am unable to access the posted response.
::computerpunch::

[Lauren Johnson]

Here is an extensive discussion of Prayerman, etc. from the Way Back Machine. I think we all would be better off reviving this thread and probably re-reading it before we do it. Just a suggestion.

[Lauren Johnson]

My trouble with the Prayer Man analysis is the assumption that PM is one of known group of persons and that he can be identified from that list. Tracy Riddle posted just such a list here at DPF. It seems that LHO makes a pretty good candidate for being PM.

BUT, here is my thought. What happens if PM is not on that list? I read through the long thread over at EF 6 months ago. I can't remember if that possibility has been explored. Absent a positive ID of PM, then assuming that he can be ID'd by the process of elimination is inherently problematic. You can make up whatever narrative you want.

Here's mine. He is not acting the same as most others in the groups of people out front of the TSBD. Strikingly so. He is a spotter whose assignment is to identify individuals in need of attention by "Secret Service" personnel to confiscate film, take names for follow up, etc. He is there as part of the follow up.

No wait. He's a guy who hated JFK and is actually praying that the sob dies. He's just some guy who walked down the street, missed the parade, asked what is going on, and has stopped to pray to God to make things come out all right.

No wait...

In other words, lacking a positive ID, the figure is a blank screen upon which one's imagination runs wild.

What did Magda say about snake oil early in this thread? Just sayin.

Thoughts?

Oh, Jim Di, I hope you get Sean to write this thing up. There's so much spread out all over on this one.

[Bob Prudhomme]

I understand what you are saying, Lauren, and must admit that I have had the same thoughts about Prayer Man.

The most compelling thing about this whole thing is Buell Wesley Frazier's strange case of amnesia. As it seems the majority of the people on the steps were employees of the TSBD, a stranger standing back in the shadows at the top of the steps would be all that much more noticeable to Frazier, I would think.

Whether Prayer Man is Oswald, another TSBD employee or a complete stranger, Frazier is seen looking directly at him, following the shots, yet has no recollection of a person there. He also has no recollection of a helmeted motorcycle cop running past him shortly after the shots were fired.

Frazier, to me, is the key to the whole affair. Get him to talk and we will know everything.

[Jim DiEugenio]

I understand what you are saying, Lauren, and must admit that I have had the same thoughts about Prayer Man.

The most compelling thing about this whole thing is Buell Wesley Frazier's strange case of amnesia. As it seems the majority of the people on the steps were employees of the TSBD, a stranger standing back in the shadows at the top of the steps would be all that much more noticeable to Frazier, I would think.

Whether Prayer Man is Oswald, another TSBD employee or a complete stranger, Frazier is seen looking directly at him, following the shots, yet has no recollection of a person there. He also has no recollection of a helmeted motorcycle cop running past him shortly after the shots were fired.

Frazier, to me, is the key to the whole affair. Get him to talk and we will know everything.

Good point Bob. I also tend to agree that almost all of the people that far back in the landing would likely be TSBD employees. FOr the simple reason, why would a stranger come down to Dealey Plaza and station himself or herself in such a place as that? Why not be on Houston street, or in the Plaza itself to get a much better and longer view of the motorcade?

Granted, that is not a foolproof reason. But it does have probability on its side, plus the fact that most of the people identified in and around that area have turned out to be TSBD employees.

[Drew Phipps]

The strange thing about Frazier is that he (or his double) allegedly showed up chauffeuring an Oswald at a firing range. Purportedly he was almost indicted. "Gerald" or Garland Slack, a Warren Commission witness, is supposed to be the one who fingers Frazier, yet there is nothing in his statement to the Sherriff (he was also in Dealy Plaza that day), nor in the FBI report, nor in his WC deposition that specifically names Frazier. In fact the descriptions by Slack and the other folks that describe "Oswald's" companion don't match Frazier at all.


Fetzer is apparently of the opinion that Frazier was involved in both pre-assassination and post-assassination framing of Oswald, and speculates that Frazier brought the "Oswald's rifle" to the TSBD that morning and then him and his sister made up the curtain rod story. Fetzer says, at one point, that Altgens 6 was altered to remove Frazier's image on the stairs, and then at another point, denies that that particular area of Altgens 6 was altered.


If Frazier's description of his position "behind Lovelady" is correct, then why don't people think that Prayer Man is Frazier? Frazier also says that he stayed outside there after the shooting because it was a good place to "not be caught"?

[Bob Prudhomme]

The strange thing about Frazier is that he (or his double) allegedly showed up chauffeuring an Oswald at a firing range. Purportedly he was almost indicted. "Gerald" or Garland Slack, a Warren Commission witness, is supposed to be the one who fingers Frazier, yet there is nothing in his statement to the Sherriff (he was also in Dealy Plaza that day), nor in the FBI report, nor in his WC deposition that specifically names Frazier. In fact the descriptions by Slack and the other folks that describe "Oswald's" companion don't match Frazier at all.


Fetzer is apparently of the opinion that Frazier was involved in both pre-assassination and post-assassination framing of Oswald, and speculates that Frazier brought the "Oswald's rifle" to the TSBD that morning and then him and his sister made up the curtain rod story. Fetzer says, at one point, that Altgens 6 was altered to remove Frazier's image on the stairs, and then at another point, denies that that particular area of Altgens 6 was altered.


If Frazier's description of his position "behind Lovelady" is correct, then why don't people think that Prayer Man is Frazier? Frazier also says that he stayed outside there after the shooting because it was a good place to "not be caught"?

For the simple fact that Frazier was a tall gangly youth and Prayer Man is obviously much shorter. Also, the tall gangly Frazier can be seen looking at Prayer Man in the film capture.