Jim Hargrove Wrote:But beyond this kind of normal corruption, I'm betting only a few Dallas cops were involved. Westbrook, Croy, and Roscoe White certainly come to mind.
I'd have to disagree. I think Oswald's execution was an operation conducted from the top down on CIA national security orders. Oswald was walked in to a bullet from Ruby with the full cooperation and timing of all involved, that included Ruby being escorted in through a side door. A microcosm of the government execution of president Kennedy.
David Josephs Wrote:.... All the Oswald arrest reports are in Box 2 Folder 7 ata the Dallas Archives....
Thanks, DJ! It sure is interesting to read this stuff now that we have such a clear idea of what actually happened at the theater.
You identify the first Dec. 3 letter in your post as written by Westbrook. Any idea why neither Dec. 3 notes are signed?
It's difficult to trust anything Westbrook says. For example, in the note you posted, he says he rode with Barrett in a squad car to the theater. He told the FBI the same thing. But years later, he told the HSCA that Barrett drove to the theater by himself, and Barrett in 1996 confirmed that he drove there by himself. Throughout much of Nov. 22, 1963, Westbrook seems unable to account for his time, unable to recall who gave him important evidence, and unable to remember how he got from place to place.
David Josephs Wrote:.... All the Oswald arrest reports are in Box 2 Folder 7 ata the Dallas Archives....
Thanks, DJ! It sure is interesting to read this stuff now that we have such a clear idea of what actually happened at the theater.
You identify the first Dec. 3 letter in your post as written by Westbrook. Any idea why neither Dec. 3 notes are signed?
It's difficult to trust anything Westbrook says. For example, in the note you posted, he says he rode with Barrett in a squad car to the theater. He told the FBI the same thing. But years later, he told the HSCA that Barrett drove to the theater by himself, and Barrett in 1996 confirmed that he drove there by himself. Throughout much of Nov. 22, 1963, Westbrook seems unable to account for his time, unable to recall who gave him important evidence, and unable to remember how he got from place to place.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/06/0693-001.gif is the first page of the Toney report talking about the guy sitting at the top of the steps who had been there since "12:05" (sic) but probably meant 1:05 just as we suspected.
Since you invited this issue, and since I seem to be the sole voice of reason on this twin Oswalds issue, I'd merely like to point out that Burroughs apparently (since it seems many "corrections" were made to the WC transcript) described his whereabouts in a very different way to the Warren Commission. He did not testify at the HSCA. In addition, he waited until 2007 (45 years?), when Douglass interviewed him, to tell this version of events to anyone.
No doubt you regulars don't need reminding, but for the lurkers and curious among us, John Armstrong published "Harvey and Lee" in 1999. Bernard Haire went public with his recollection of a second arrest "out the back" of the theater in 1987. T.F. White (a reporter) and Roger Craig (a deputy sheriff), at least, went public with their sightings of a second Oswald within days of the event. Bill Kelley again revived the Mathers/Plymouth story in the early 1990's. So, by 2007, Burroughs had decades of opportunity to become familiar with the circulating rumors of a second Oswald. I also recall Douglass stating that Burrough's 2007 recollection of a second arrest was "surprising."
I don't know if John interviewed Burroughs for his book before 1999. I have no recollection of a Burroughs interview from "Harvey and Lee."
I expect that the classified Mathers testimony from the HSCA (concerning a car in which an Oswald look-alike was spotted after the arrest), when declassified (hopefully in 2017), will shed some light on the connection between Collins Radio (who leased a boat, allegedly used to ship guns and assassins to Cuba, which was captured by Fidel Castro) with Jack Ruby (a former gun runner to Fidel Castro), and with Oswald, who, in 1963, actually visited the home of an executive of Collins Radio (Admiral Bruton) in the company of DeMorenschildt. Perhaps this bit of information will lead us to a real person who had opportunity and motive to impersonate Oswald.
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
Quote:Since you invited this issue, and since I seem to be the sole voice of reason on this twin Oswalds issue
Just want to understand your post Drew...
First off, John does not claim they were "twins". Not even close
Second, what does "sole voice of reason" mean, exactly? Have you assumed the role of resident expert in debunking and refuting the evidence offered thru H&L?
I remain skeptical about some of the post 12:30 on 11/22 H&L offerings ... yet Lee killing Tippit and leading the police to the Theater fits very well with the evidence.
What are you offering to say other options are more realistic and/or corroborated by the evidence?
I am being genuine Drew... I tried to debunk H&L and found I could not - as I say, much of the speculation is recognized and called out as such... but the hard evidence is very difficult to impeach...
Drew you should go to the web site and order the book. I am willing to bet that you will not be "that" voice if you read the book. I know it's kinda expensive, but well worth it.
I don't know how anyone can even read the 20 minute paper I delivered for John in Dallas on the Tippit shooting and not be convinced that there were two different men, Lee and Harvey. I personally do not think they look all that much alike either.
By "gem" do you mean the Stringfellow letter? I have no explanation for the balcony/orchestra dichotomy. I have read hundreds of police reports in the last 20 years. Many of them contain factual errors; some serious, some not.
Haire, at least, is credible enough witness that a second detention occurred at the theatre. However, I can't quite wrap my mind around why an imposter who was cooperating with the police, to frame someone for murder, would put up a struggle with the police, after his mission was successfully completed.
By voice of reason, I mean to say that I am seemingly the only regular poster here that doesn't take the "Harvey and Lee" research, namely, a lifelong pattern of impersonation by a specific individual, as established fact. I am aware that there are specific acts of impersonation. It appears from the photographs, at least, that there are several individuals involved.
I am unwilling to abandon the search for an individual impersonator at or near the time of the assassination. I believe that the H&L elaborate scenario required for Oswald to obtain the Tippet murder weapon and ammunition from his "double" is unrealistic. I believe that Oswald was smart enough not to willingly do something so stupid to incriminate himself, and yet then be unwilling to take credit for the act later.
Dawn: I've read Harvey and Lee. I have the highest respect for John Armstrong. I just don't agree with his conclusions.
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
