"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
Quote:Is there any connection between Joel David Kaplan, Victor Stadter, Harvey Orville Dayle (Doyle) and this "POYLE" character you describe?
How would I know? I'm looking into Poyle only because he was with Sturgis the day my father was murdered.
Quote:Do you have any one specific thing you can point to as POYLE's work?
Does anyone?
Quote:Well Scott... the propaganda about Oswald and Mexico begins on October 7, 1963 when David Atlee Phillips arrives as the newly named Cuban Chief
What do you think Poyle was? Aside from being imprisoned for awhile in Fidel Castro's prison? Wouldn't you think that Phillips, Forton and Win Scott knew about Poyle in Mexico on 11/22/1963?
Quote:Oct 8 is the LADILLINGER memo inwhich Goodpasture (with Win Scott as releasing officer) has Manell create a memo reporting on what LIENVOY turned up on Oct 1.
Are you sure there aren't any other memos generated after Oct 1st 1963? Including, any generated after November 22, 1963? Dig man dig! Don't believe everything you read from those documents. Poyle says he first encountered my father on August 28, 1973, that's NOT true, we now know that Poyle FIRST encountered my father on August 23, 1973 five days earlier when my father was showing the photos he had around to many of the Miami Cubans as well as Poyle.
Quote:Do you know who FEINRIDER or Friend of SI was?
No.
Scott - YOU brought up Poyle
YOU said he was involved in propaganda in Mexico and was there on 11/22...
How can you say these things if you haven't any examples or evidence? I'm not expressly doubting you - just trying to understand how and why the name appears related to Mexico.
Irving Richard Poyle - the same as the man with Sturgis?
You keep asking Poyle questions yet very little anywhere mentions this name, except you.
This was all I could find today about "Poyle". So I have to ask again... please connect Poyle to Mexico by something more than intuition and "wouldn't you think" please.... what was there to know and how are you sure he was even there on the22nd?
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
Quote:YOU said he was involved in propaganda in Mexico and was there on 11/22...
How can you say these things if you haven't any examples or evidence?
I did provide evidence he was there, in Mexico, on November 22, 1963, don't shoot the messenger, shoot the message. And, I posted that document on this thread.
I told you, my sources in Miami informed me of Poyle's activities in Mexico.
Quote:I'm not expressly doubting you - just trying to understand how and why the name appears related to Mexico.
I've only been repeating myself over and over.
Quote:You keep asking Poyle questions yet very little anywhere mentions this name, except you.
As I've said, that's because he worked with my father, whom many appear to not even know who he was, if you don't know my father, how could you know Poyle?
Quote:This was all I could find today about "Poyle". So I have to ask again... please connect Poyle to Mexico by something more than intuition and "wouldn't you think" please.... what was there to know and how are you sure he was even there on the22nd?
Did you not read the document I posted on this thread that connects Poyle to Mexico on 11/22/1963?
This is not to say the plot was perfect. It wasn't. As Newman notes, the alleged Oswald tapes had to be made to disappear. Since it was not Oswald's voice on them, it threatened to expose the plot. Only the transcripts could be allowed to survive. But as CIA officer John Scelso noted in an internal memo, a copy of the October 1st intercept on Oswald had been discovered after the assassination.[SUP]187[/SUP] Shortly afterward, Scelso would be removed from his duties as liaison to the Warren Commission from the CIA. (He eventually retired early.) Richard Helms would replace him with James Angleton. Who, of course, knew exactly what to send the Commission about Oswald and what not to send. But the cover-up about the existence of the tapes after the assassination was put in place earlier by the trusty Goodpasture. On the afternoon of 11/23 she sent out a cable stating that a voice comparison between two of the alleged Oswald calls had not been made at the time of Oswald's visit because the tape of the 9/28 call had been erased before the tape of the 10/1 call was received.[SUP]188[/SUP] This is utter hogwash. As the Lopez Report establishes, the tapes were kept for ten days before being reused.[SUP]189[/SUP] And further, as Newman noted at a conference at Duquesne University in 2003, there was a voice comparison made and Goodpasture knew it. Further, it is preposterous to state that a tape would be recycled in a matter of 72 hours over a weekend.[SUP]190[/SUP] The disposal routine was never that fast, because it would not allow enough time for everything to be heard.
Several people here know a lot more about Mexico City than I do, but for years I've been operating under the assumption that the Mexico City charade was fundamentally a plot by David Atlee Phillips and others in the Agency to link "Lee Harvey Oswald" with Castro and a Cuban plan to assassinate President Kennedy. Are people now suggesting that it was something else, simply a mole hunt or something relatively innocent like that?
If, for example, a mole hunt is the argument, I'd like to know why "Lee Harvey Oswald" was chosen for a central role. I mean, here's a guy who was just passing out pro-Castro literature in New Orleans, who would visit Castro's friend and personal gun supplier Robert McKeown to attempt to buy rifles at inflated prices, and would soon be spotted all over Dallas incriminating himself for the upcoming assassination.
It seems like awfully bad luck for the Agency to just happen to make him a featured player in a mole hunt.
Was Silvia Duran beaten half to death for a mole hunt? Were Phillips-inspired tales such as the red-headed "negro" giving "Oswald" a big bag of bucks part of a mole hunt, or the tale of "Oswald" shouting his hatred for Kennedy outside the Cuban consulate?
If it was a mole hunt, why involve all those witnesseshonest or false--on the bus and at the hotel? None of this was known until after the assassination. Wouldn't it be more likely that a mole hunt might be a planned excuse if the plot failed and/or someone started talking?
