In Destiny Betrayed, second edition, I do spend a lot of time on Howard Hunt.
And although there is no doubt that Hunt was in Mexico for years, once working with Bill Buckley down there, I could never nail down the rumor that he was temporary station chief in September and October of 1963.
That is in Tad Szulc's book Compulsive Spy. That book is loosely referenced, of course, because its a bio of a spook.
But from the documentary record, and from witness testimony in the Lopez Report, it looks like Scott was there, not Hunt. I think Szulc was misled.
This does not mean of course that Hunt was not in on the JFK hit. I think he was. But just that he was not MC Station Chief at the time.
Isn't it fascinating about Phillips though? I mean:
1. He is one of the guys running the anti FPCC campaign, which Oswald is part of in New Orleans.
2. He is then seen with LHO in Dallas at the Southland Center.
3. He then lies his head off about MC to cover up the crap Goodpasture is doing to make it appear that LHO is there.
4. He later confesses to his brother he was in Dallas on the day of the assassination.
5. He then uses his foreign assets to try and incriminate Oswald as a commie hit man after the fact.
I can't wait to see what new stuff Newman has on him in his trilogy. I just ordered part one of it.
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:More incriminating stuff on Goodpasture:
This is not to say the plot was perfect. It wasn't. As Newman notes, the alleged Oswald tapes had to be made to disappear. Since it was not Oswald's voice on them, it threatened to expose the plot. Only the transcripts could be allowed to survive. But as CIA officer John Scelso noted in an internal memo, a copy of the October 1st intercept on Oswald had been discovered after the assassination.[SUP]187[/SUP] Shortly afterward, Scelso would be removed from his duties as liaison to the Warren Commission from the CIA. (He eventually retired early.) Richard Helms would replace him with James Angleton. Who, of course, knew exactly what to send the Commission about Oswald and what not to send. But the cover-up about the existence of the tapes after the assassination was put in place earlier by the trusty Goodpasture. On the afternoon of 11/23 she sent out a cable stating that a voice comparison between two of the alleged Oswald calls had not been made at the time of Oswald's visit because the tape of the 9/28 call had been erased before the tape of the 10/1 call was received.[SUP]188[/SUP] This is utter hogwash. As the Lopez Report establishes, the tapes were kept for ten days before being reused.[SUP]189[/SUP] And further, as Newman noted at a conference at Duquesne University in 2003, there was a voice comparison made and Goodpasture knew it. Further, it is preposterous to state that a tape would be recycled in a matter of 72 hours over a weekend.[SUP]190[/SUP] The disposal routine was never that fast, because it would not allow enough time for everything to be heard.
Doesn't this suggest that at least a copy was kept - and that Win Scott may have had that copy/original?
*In a letter dated December 4, 1992 (published in The Investigator), W. David Slawson wrote: Yes, I listened to the tape of Lee Harvey Oswald s telephone conversations with the Soviet Embassy In Mexico City I did not feel that the voice sounded any different from what I expected his would sound like. Slawson does not go to Mexico City until the mid-70's for the HSCA
Can I please have the footnote source for "192" the tape being brought to the border...
Could this have anything to do with Rudd and the "Texas Border" Anahuac bus line is mentioned a number of times within FBI records and reports to the CIA who say the FBI says he changed over to an Anahuac bus..
Piedras Negros is another US/Mex border crossing point North of Laredo.
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:More incriminating stuff on Goodpasture:
This is not to say the plot was perfect. It wasn't. As Newman notes, the alleged Oswald tapes had to be made to disappear. Since it was not Oswald's voice on them, it threatened to expose the plot. Only the transcripts could be allowed to survive. But as CIA officer John Scelso noted in an internal memo, a copy of the October 1st intercept on Oswald had been discovered after the assassination.[SUP]187[/SUP] Shortly afterward, Scelso would be removed from his duties as liaison to the Warren Commission from the CIA. (He eventually retired early.) Richard Helms would replace him with James Angleton. Who, of course, knew exactly what to send the Commission about Oswald and what not to send. But the cover-up about the existence of the tapes after the assassination was put in place earlier by the trusty Goodpasture. On the afternoon of 11/23 she sent out a cable stating that a voice comparison between two of the alleged Oswald calls had not been made at the time of Oswald's visit because the tape of the 9/28 call had been erased before the tape of the 10/1 call was received.[SUP]188[/SUP] This is utter hogwash. As the Lopez Report establishes, the tapes were kept for ten days before being reused.[SUP]189[/SUP] And further, as Newman noted at a conference at Duquesne University in 2003, there was a voice comparison made and Goodpasture knew it. Further, it is preposterous to state that a tape would be recycled in a matter of 72 hours over a weekend.[SUP]190[/SUP] The disposal routine was never that fast, because it would not allow enough time for everything to be heard.
Doesn't this suggest that at least a copy was kept - and that Win Scott may have had that copy/original?
*In a letter dated December 4, 1992 (published in The Investigator), W. David Slawson wrote: Yes, I listened to the tape of Lee Harvey Oswald s telephone conversations with the Soviet Embassy In Mexico City I did not feel that the voice sounded any different from what I expected his would sound like. Slawson does not go to Mexico City until the mid-70's for the HSCA
Can I please have the footnote source for "192" the tape being brought to the border...
Could this have anything to do with Rudd and the "Texas Border" Anahuac bus line is mentioned a number of times within FBI records and reports to the CIA who say the FBI says he changed over to an Anahuac bus..
Piedras Negros is another US/Mex border crossing point North of Laredo.
Quote:Yes, I listened to the tape of Lee Harvey Oswald s telephone conversations with the Soviet Embassy In Mexico City
Too many could've's, should've's and would've's, or does this suggest this or does this suggest that, but still no evidence. I would like to hear the same tape you say you said you've heard Oswald on tape talking at the Soviet Embassy in Mexico, thanks.
I know for a fact David you've not listened to any tape Oswald apparently made when the CIA said he called the Soviet Embassy. First off, what I've been telling you, you have elected not to follow though, secondly, what your eyes don't see, and your ears don't hear, means you don't know, there is no tape of Oswald calling the Embassy.
Scott Kaiser Wrote:Too many could've's, should've's and would've's, or does this suggest this or does this suggest that, but still no evidence. I would like to hear the same tape you say you said you've heard Oswald on tape talking at the Soviet Embassy in Mexico, thanks.
Take a breath Scott...
Slawson wrote this, I personally did not listen to the tapes, Slawson did proving the tapes, or at least a copy, were not destroyed.
*In a letter dated December 4, 1992 (published in The Investigator), W. David Slawson wrote: Yes, I listened to the tape of Lee Harvey Oswald s telephone conversations with the Soviet Embassy In Mexico City I did not feel that the voice sounded any different from what I expected his would sound like. Slawson does not go to Mexico City until the mid-70's for the HSCA
Finding the Name OCHOA was a big deal Scott... the name Poyle does not appear to have very much significance...
In the links you provided it sounded as if he was going to "WAVE" in Florida, and had been in Mexico City and Monterrey...
You made the statement that he was specifically involved with Mexicn Propaganda yet offer nothing to connect him to any of it...
By connection, Goodpasture, Phillips and Scott are interrelated... Goodpasture doing somehting with the Russian and Cuban desks most assuredly involved Phillips.
Please put Poyle in context... if you can. Castro seems to think Irving Richard Poyle was his real name... true?
Do you have anything from years prior that puts Poyle in contact eitehr above or below these other men in the OTHER Central and South American plots?
Did Parker ever get you the info on Poyle you asked for back a few years?
AS I looked, I find the only person using Poyle in 1963 is you Scott. the docs you linked us to talk about a trip yet says loterallynothing about Mexican Propaganda...
How did you come to that conclusion without any evidence for his actually doing anything related to Mexico City other than being there?
As you know, MExico City trip is near and dear to me.... the name Poyle never came up.
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
If those tapes ever existed they were never made public, the only thing the FBI gives us are transcripts according to what the CIA gave them, and the photos that don't resemble Oswald at all. Sense when does the CIA share such information with the FBI?
In Destiny Betrayed, second edition, I do spend a lot of time on Howard Hunt.
Hey, I've only got the half-as-good first edition of Destiny Betrayed. Doesn't the publisher offer us an upgrade price? <g>
Quote:And although there is no doubt that Hunt was in Mexico for years, once working with Bill Buckley down there, I could never nail down the rumor that he was temporary station chief in September and October of 1963.
That is in Tad Szulc's book Compulsive Spy. That book is loosely referenced, of course, because its a bio of a spook.
But from the documentary record, and from witness testimony in the Lopez Report, it looks like Scott was there, not Hunt. I think Szulc was misled.
Bummer. I want to see Hunt hanged in the history books right next to Phillips for this crime. John has what looks like a magazine page scanned on the H&L disk with an article by David Giammarco (described as a "Toronto-based journalist") claiming Hunt was temporary Station Chief, and the only other reference I've seen is to that Cigar Aficionado article. Were you able to check out those sources?
Quote:This does not mean of course that Hunt was not in on the JFK hit. I think he was. But just that he was not MC Station Chief at the time.
Isn't it fascinating about Phillips though? I mean:
1. He is one of the guys running the anti FPCC campaign, which Oswald is part of in New Orleans.
2. He is then seen with LHO in Dallas at the Southland Center.
3. He then lies his head off about MC to cover up the crap Goodpasture is doing to make it appear that LHO is there.
4. He later confesses to his brother he was in Dallas on the day of the assassination.
5. He then uses his foreign assets to try and incriminate Oswald as a commie hit man after the fact.
I can't wait to see what new stuff Newman has on him in his trilogy. I just ordered part one of it.
Hope you'll have a review up asap. Phillips looks pretty bad here, and so does Hunt, even if he wasn't in charge at the MC Station. Finally, though you've probably seen it already, thought you might get a kick out of this:
