The BYP: Jeff Carter pours it on

[Jim DiEugenio]

This series keeps on getting better and better, and there is one more part to go.

http://www.ctka.net/2015/JeffCarterBYP4.html

What is amazing to me is that no one that i know of ever constructed their argument in the way Jeff has. And he has pursued it with perseverance and consistency. Its a whole new way of thinking about this evidence outside of the authenticity question.

And Jeff came up with this by closely reading the HSCA report and Kirk's smudging of certain elements of the evidentiary record, like did Oswald ever really own that camera?

Its essay like this that make CTKA what it is.

[Jim DiEugenio]

This is now the number one rated article at CTKA after being up just a bit over 24 hours.

Jeff's series is number two.

The attractiveness of this subject, the BYP, is simply phenomenal. It never goes away.

But I think Jeff's unique approach helped him. And us.

I urge everyone to read the whole series because he exposes Kirk for what he is.

[Drew Phipps]

Something about Michael Paine being able to identify the Neely house in the BYP despite (he claimed) a single visit to the premises 7 months earlier has always bothered me. In addition, isn't it a strange coincidence that Ruth Paine would unknowingly arrange to pick up Marina and June, and take them to Irving, on 4/11/63, the day after the late night unsuccessful Walker attempt. Of course, if Ruth knew about the attempt, then getting Marina and June out of the probable line of fire for anyone coming to arrest (or kill) Oswald would seem a perfectly rational act.

Oswald didn't go to work on Thursday, the 11th of April, 1963, he had lost/quit his job at Jag/Stiles on April 6, 1963...

PS: I read a story that Michael Paine is a second cousin of Sec'y of State John Kerry.

[Peter Lemkin]

The Paines have conspiracy written large all over them, IMO. This Kelin article is quite circumspect and careful not to draw any conclusions, but I think it is easy to do so. They set LHO [in this they were not alone] up as the patsy, and allowed their garage and home to be used to 'salt' the belongings of Oswald; to allow and yet control the actions of the Oswalds; they got him his job at the TSBD; they lied about the purchase of the gun and Michael lied about who he was with at the time of the assassination....and it goes on and on. They were the intelligence babysitters for the Oswalds, taking over from DeMohrenschieldt, clearly. And don't forget who Paine's boss was - one SS General Walter Dornberger who, amazingly, SHORTLY after after coming out of a camp in Wales for high-level Nazi officers suddenly had a US passport and high-level security clearance and was flown by non-commercial flight to near Boston, where he soon joined Bell Helicopter. Some years before the events of Dallas, Dornberger was transferred to the Bell Helicopter Ft. Worth, TX branch and given a very high position there. Paine worked directly under Dornberger - two CIA connected individuals with security clearances. One an old Nazi, two neo-fascists, IMHO - all intelligence operatives with interesting family pedigrees and interesting friends and relationships.

As far as the genealogy of the Paines, see this thread https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sho...e5pdh___mE

from: Jim Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins (1988)

Lee and Marina Oswald had met Ruth Paine in February 1963 at a party in Dallas to which George de Mohrenschildt and his wife had brought them. I found that Ruth Paine was the wife of Michael Paine, an engineering designer who did highly classified work for Bell Helicopter, a major Defense Department contractor.
Ruth Paine was a rangy, intelligent woman with widespread interests, among them the Russian language, which she had learned to speak quite well. Her father had been employed by the Agency for International Development, regarded by many as a source of cover for the C.I.A. Her brother-in-law was employed by the same agency in the Washington, D.C. area.
It was on Ruth Paine's way back from a long vacation, during which she had visited her in-laws in Washington, D.C., that she made the stop in New Orleans to pick up Marina Oswald and her daughter for their return to Dallas. I wondered vaguely whether Mrs. Paine herself had been manipulated in the course of this move.
As a routine matter, I wanted to examine the income tax returns of Ruth and Michael Paine, but I was told that they had been classified as secret. In addition to the Paines' income tax reports, Commission documents 212, relating to Ruth Paine, and 218, relating to Michael Paine, also had been classified as secret on grounds of national security.
Classified for the same reason were Commission documents 258, relating to Michael, and 508, relating to Michael Paines sister, as well as Commission documents 600 through 629, regarding relatives of Michael Paine. What was so special about this particular family that made the federal government so protective of it?

In bashing the only (very bad) book I know of on the Paine's, Bill Kelly tells much of the true story/connections/lies/intrigue of the real Paines here.

There is SO much of the official Paine story that is a lie, I hardly know where to begin. But I'll mention one more. Ruth said she offered her place to Marina so that she could both be a good soul to a needy woman with young child and to LEARN RUSSIAN. However, at that time, Ruth was herself TEACHING RUSSIAN language, as Hosty testified to the WC, at a local school. So, she may have well kept Marina and Oswald unaware she knew Russian to better know [and report] on what they said to one another when they spoke in Russian. One of the million lies and distortions by and about the Paines........

A few more tidbits of which I could spend all day....

Michael Paine's father Lyman Paine and mother Ruth Forbes Paine Young alone are interesting and intelligence related; her friend and traveling companion Mary Bancroft was Dulles' paramour; Michael's main mentor, step-father and Bell Helicopter inventor Arthur Young comes into the complex picture; Marina's biographer Priscilla Johnson McMillan, and their joint association with the World Federalists, whose founder Cord Meyer, Jr., was head of the CIA's domestic contacts division and later International Organizations Division chief under Alan Dulles - and played a hand in the murder of JFK's paramour and confident [and his former wife] Mary Pinchot Meyer, along with J.J. Angleton and others. The cast of spooks and their associations are so thick and deep it is like a tar pit!

[Jim DiEugenio]

Here is part 5, and it looks like Drew anticipated what Jeff was going to focus on: Mike Paine's visit to the Neely House and how his testimony changed on this subject.

http://www.ctka.net/2015/JeffCarterBYP5.html

BTW, note who appears to be the first person Mike Paine lied to about Oswald showing him the BYP in April. Gus Russo!

Also, was the intercepted phone call on the 22nd a wiretap? And if so is that why Liebeler lied about it?

[Drew Phipps]

Interesting that in March 1964 Michael Paine, apparently snapping off an annoyed response to questioning re the wiretapped conversation between himself and Ruth on Nov. 22, 1963, says,

"MR LIEBELER. Did you make any remark to the effect that you knew who was responsible?
MR PAINE. And I don't know who the assassin is or was; no, so I did not."

Note the use of the present and then past tense, at a time when apparently everyone in America knew who the assassin was.

Wonder why Paine didn't respond to the "out" that Liebeler twice offers him, namely, the wrong day of the phone call, when he could "truthfully" have merely denied making the call on November 23.

Also Carter mentions this but doesn't say how weird it is, that Paine is speaking to SMU students about "Oswald and Cuba" in April or May 1963, long before Oswald himself began to involve himself.

[Tracy Riddle]

Looks like Irving, Texas is back in the news because of the scary brown kid who made a clock and might have blown up the world with it (well, you can't be too careful with THOSE PEOPLE). Dallas may have changed a lot in recent decades, but Irving still sounds like a place where the authorities are reactionaries.

[Drew Phipps]

Irving IS in Dallas, nowadays.

[Mark A. O'Blazney]

Has anyone noticed the timing of Jeff's article(s) and the re-hashing of the Dartmouth 'findings' ?

[Magda Hassan]

Has anyone noticed the timing of Jeff's article(s) and the re-hashing of the Dartmouth 'findings' ?

Like clockwork. Action. Reaction.