Robert McNeil vs. Pearce Allman: One of them is lying, or there really were two Oswalds

[Drew Phipps]

Both of these known reporters claim to have met Oswald as he exited the TSBD. But both these stories cannot be true. Unless there really were two Oswalds.


Robert McNeil (of McNeil/Lehrer fame) was riding on the motorcade press bus (vehicle #17) during the assassination. He and others got the bus stopped when they reached the Triple Underpass. McNeil exited the bus, went up the Grassy Knoll, where the police were searching. When nothing appeared to be happening, he went to the TSBD to use the phone. He asked Oswald, who was exiting the building, where the phone was, who told him, "you better ask inside." His call to NBC occurred at 12:34. (main source - Vaughn motorcade schematic; this story is also told in Case Closed iirc)


Pearce Allman was standing on the corner of Elm and Houston, directly opposite the TSBD. When the motorcade went by he heard three loud explosions. He looked up at the TSBD, saw three guys on the third floor hanging out of the window looking up. He also thought he could see a rifle barrel. (6/5/16 episode Globe Trekker "East Texas" - you can see the interview here if you pay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmVjK_eVGso )

Allman (a reporter with local station WFAA) says he ran across the street to the TSBD to use the phone. He also says that he asked someone exiting the building for directions to the telephone, that turned out to be Oswald. (Main source Globe Trekker episode, but you can also read Allman's story here:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-jfk-...story.html )


You have undoubtedly seen the problematic issue here. It could not possibly have taken four minutes for Allman to run across Elm street. Oswald could not possibly have left the 6th Floor nest, ran across the building, hid the gun, ran down 5 flights of stairs, (paused in the lunchroom to meet Officer Baker and buy a Coke) and ran to the front of the building, in the time it took Allman to run across the street. Further, if you believe that Oswald recounted the story of meeting "a Secret Service guy" as he left the building, that would have been McNeil - since he was in the motorcade, he would have been wearing some sort of approved credentials.


My opinion is that Allman is not telling the truth. In addition to the problems above, had he seen a gun and been contemporaneously interviewed by the Secret Service (as he claims) he certainly would have been called to the WC as a "Howard Brennan"-type eyewitness. As far as I can tell, the claim that he saw a gun barrel first appeared in the 50th anniversary LA Times article.


Any contrary conclusion means that a) Oswald wasn't in the sniper's nest, and b) MacNeil is lying; or, that there were actually two Oswalds exiting the building (one early meeting Allman, and one later meeting McNeil).

[Albert Doyle]

Armstrong proved there were two Oswalds in the Depository in my opinion. One that Frazier saw going up Elm and the other witnessed by Roger Craig. Further reinforcement of this is Craig being killed because he was a danger toward exposing this.

[Jim Hargrove]

[Bob Prudhomme]

"Pearce Allman was standing on the corner of Elm and Houston, directly opposite the TSBD. When the motorcade went by he heard three loud explosions. He looked up at the TSBD, saw three guys on the third floor hanging out of the window looking up. He also thought he could see a rifle barrel."

From the Warren Commission testimony of Harold Norman:

"Mr. BALL. I have one question. [/FONT]
On the 26th of November, an FBI agent named Kreutzer advises us in a report that he talked to you. Do you remember that? [/FONT]
Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. [/FONT]
Mr. BALL. You remember? [/FONT]
Mr. NORMAN. Yes; I remember talking to him. I don't know his name. [/FONT]
Mr. BALL. He reports that you told him that you heard a shot and that you stuck your head from the window and looked upward toward the roof but could see nothing because small particles of dirt were falling from above you. Did you tell him that? [/FONT]
Mr. NORMAN. I don't recall telling him that. [/FONT]
Mr. BALL. Did you ever put your head out the window? [/FONT]
Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't remember ever putting my head out the window. [/FONT]
Mr. BALL. And he reports that you stated that two additional shots were fired after you pulled your head back in from the window. Do you remember telling him that? [/FONT]
Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't. [/FONT]
Mr. BALL. I have no further questions. "[/FONT]

[Drew Phipps]

Thank you, Bob, for pointing out another error in Allman's story. I also note that the contemporaneous pictures of the TSBD show 2 guys in the underneath windows of the 5th floor, not 3.


So then, Jim, it is John's belief that not only did the pair "Baker and Truly" encounter "both Oswalds" (second and 5th/6th floor) without noting the incongruity of seeing twins, but also that the trio "McNeil, Allman, and Ford" did not notice a "second Oswald", even though they were using the phones in the foyer through which "both Oswalds" must have passed (especially if the "second Oswald" boarded a station wagon on Elm Street). (But then again, Allman and Ford, if true, barely even noticed the "first Oswald.")


It is incongruous that, of so many people, both trained observers and people that actually knew Oswald, that were in that immediate vicinity, not one reported seeing look-alike Oswalds...

[Albert Doyle]

Drew, you can't have one Oswald confirmed by many people getting into the station wagon and another going up Elm to board a bus.


At the time, and in the confusion, the witnesses would have no way of knowing whether the Elm street Oswald doubled back and became the station wagon Oswald. When Oswald was seen by Frazier going up Elm he was simply another mundane Depository employee with no reason to stand out or be noticed.

[Jim Hargrove]

[Albert Doyle]

Mrs. Robert Reid was standing a few feet in front of the front steps to the TSBD when the shooting occurred. She then briefly spoke with with building superintendent Roy Truly and TSBD official O.V. Campbell before returning to her office on the 2nd floor. As she entered the front door of her office, Mrs. Reid saw a man wearing a white t-shirt enter the office from the rear door. She recognized the young man as (LEE) Harvey Oswald and said he was carrying a coke in his right hand. Oswald mumbled something to Mrs. Reid as he walked towards the front door of the office, and then down the front stairs and out of the building.

As Mrs. Reid was walking into the TSBD, Dallas Police Department (DPD) officer Marion Baker got off his motorcycle, ran 45 feet to the front steps of the TSBD, and began speaking with Roy Truly. Truly and Baker hurried through the main entrance, through the double doors, and into the first floor warehouse. By this time LEE Oswald, wearing a white t-shirt and carrying a Coke, had already left the TSBD. Truly repeatedly pushed the button to call the west freight elevator, gave up, and he and Baker then ran up the rear stairs. Baker emerged from the stairway onto the second floor and caught a glimpse of HARVEY Oswald through the glass window in the hallway door. Baker drew his pistol and hollered, "Come here." (HARVEY) Oswald, wearing a brown button-down shirt, was confronted by Baker at arms length. WC member Allen Dulles asked Baker, "Did he have a coke?" Baker replied, "No, sir.... No drink at all." After Mr. Truly told Baker that Oswald worked in the building, the two men left the lunchroom and continued running up the stairs. HARVEY Oswald, wearing a brown shirt, walked down the rear stairs, picked up his grey jacket from the domino room, and began walking toward the main entrance. As he was preparing to leave the building he was confronted by Pierce Allman and Terrence Ford (employees of WFAA-TV) who asked for the location of a phone. HARVEY Oswald, when questioned by Capt. Fritz, said that he watched one of the men use the phone as he walked out the foyer.

This is interesting because it would put Lee in close proximity to Harvey by the lunch-room vestibule just prior to Baker and Truly coming up to the lunch-room.



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[Drew Phipps]

Since the Darnell film shows Baker sprinting towards the entrance, and Truly turning towards the building, it is surprising that the Darnell film doesn't show either Ms. Reid entering the building or a white shirted Oswald leaving. Prayer Person, whoever it may be, is wearing relatively dark clothing. Oh, and if a dark shirted Oswald double was on the second floor within 90 seconds, wouldn't he have also had to walk past Reid to get out?

[Albert Doyle]

I've always thought Armstrong accelerated Lee's leaving the building slightly. You would imagine it might take a little time for Mrs Reid to get back upstairs. However if Mrs Reid saw the white T-shirted Lee enter the back door to the 2nd floor office that door originates from the lunch-room vestibule. That is curious because that would place Harvey, who was allegedly sitting inside the lunch-room, in close proximity to Lee right after the shooting.


It is important to note that Frazier said he saw Oswald walking down Houston from the rear of the Depository before he crossed the intersection and went up Elm St. If the lunch-room encounter was real, and if Harvey left right after being confronted by Baker, he left via the rear and was then witnessed by Frazier.


Armstrong suggests Harvey went down the back stairs to retrieve his jacket in the Domino Room, so he would therefore not have passed by Mrs Reid who was in the 2nd floor office.


This is interesting because if the two Oswalds made contact just before Mrs Reid saw Lee it would explain Harvey exiting via the back of the Depository in order not to be seen in the same location as Lee.