Try as some might to force Sarah Stanton into mystery man's position, the historical record has already eliminated her for at least two reasons ---->
Mr. BALL - Anybody else you can remember? Mr. FRAZIER - There was a lady there, a heavy-set lady who worked upstairs there whose name is Sarah something, I don't know her last name.
since there was only one Sarah upon those particular steps that afternoon, clearly Frazier is talking about the heavy-set lady Sarah Stanton.
and, number 2, note where another individual upon those same steps that afternoon had to say about her specific position. Take it away Bill Lovelady ---->
(4-7-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 6H336-341) (When asked who was with him on the front steps when the shots were fired) "Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton and right behind me..."
clearly there is someone else standing there in the shadows behind Lovelady who is not Shelley or the heavy-set lady Sarah Stanton. Of course, Warren Commission counsel quickly changes the subject before Lovelady may continue (for obvious reasons).
Good to see you, Mr. Mitcham, best to you & yours this Spring season right into Summer sir.
Facts never contradict the Truth, but self-serving liars amid a hastily contrived script to frame an innocent man only implicate themselves ---->
Addendum (A) ---->
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when you talk, I wonder if you would look at me
Adddendum (B) ----->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
How was that again, Roy Truly, when? ----> sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
What did Roy Truly really do that afternoon?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer.
Cat got you tongue?!, Roy Truly
Can't answer or WON't answer, Roy Truly?
Pleading the 5th?
​I would hate to think that the best evidence I had to make a claim, is to accuse now deceased eyewitnesses of being liars!
Roy Truly & Marrion Baker lied…under Oath.
The act of lying by itself is disruptiveand unethical at best, experts say, but when it crosses over to perjury lyingunder oath at its worst, it is far-reaching and destructive in its effect. Ifleft unchecked, experts say, prosecutable lies, cheating and rampant dishonestyfrom the powerful to the poor have the potential to destroy the social fabricof America right down to its political and judicial systems.
Above quote attributed to journalist AmyChoate-Nielsen's findings in her revealing article: 'You can't handle the truth': 96 percent of Americans admit to lying
Similar to the 96% of liars they helped spawned, Roy Truly & Marrion Baker continuously lied throughout their sworn testimony.
Most glaring of their lies is Marrion Baker saying in one instance the tandem were up on an otherwise Locked roof for ---->
Mr. BELIN - In this time sequence you mentioned you were on the roof more than 5 minutes, that couldbe 25 or 30 or 10 or 15 or what?
Mr. BAKER - This, to my recollection, it seemed like I shouldn't have stayed up there over 10 minutes anyway, if that long.
So, even if we gave them no more than 9:59 upon that otherwise Locked roof, they still cannot explain away how they could be up on the roof while also engaging Dallas police Inspector J. Hubert Sawyer at the same time ---->
Mr. BAKER - The next thing that I noticed was Inspector Sawyer, he was on one of those floors there,he is a police inspector.
Mr. DULLES - City of Dallas Police?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
So, even if we gave the tall-tale tandem no more than 9:59 upon that otherwise Locked roof, here's their glaring lie exposed for the outright lie it is, please note what Inspector Sawyer says in his truthful testimony ---->
Mr. BELIN. You got tothe elevator, went up, looked around back there. How long did you spend upthere at the top floor that the elevator took you to?
Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hidingon that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the mostfrom the time we left, got up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard thecall at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
So, the conflict here for the lying tandem (RoyTruly & Marrion Baker) is they cannot see/engage Inspector Sawyer sometime before 12:37PM, and yet be up on that otherwise Locked roof beyond that time.
Soooo, which lie is it Roy Truly? You guys were up on an otherwise Locked roof? Or, you
engaged Inspector Sawyer before 12:37PM? and were nowhere near the roof, let alone up on it...
Liars always find a way to implicate themselves ---Ã
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when you talk, I wonder if youwould look at me
and here's Roy Truly's rather revealing Freudian slip ---Ã
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast cornerof the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there.It was sometime before I learned that they had found eitherthe rifle or the spent shell cases
How was that again, Roy Truly?
It was sometime before I learned that they had found eitherthe rifle or the spent shell cases
Before?
What did Roy Truly really do that afternoon.
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer.
Cat got you tongue?!, Roy Truly
Can't answer or WON't answer, Roy Truly?
Pleading the 5th?
*Addendum: About that otherwise Locked roof the lying tandem professed to be up on, here's an honest to goodness lawman telling the truth…Dallas Deputy Sheriff John "Made of Honour" Wiseman --Ã
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
Name of Compainant
Assassination Of President Kennedy Offense
John Wiseman, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.
Date Nov 23, 1963
I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office at 505 Main Street, Dallaswhen the President passed and the car went around the corner and a few morecars had passed when I heard a shot and I knew something had happened. I ran atonce to the corner of Houston and Main Street and out into the street when thesecond and third shots ran out. I ran on across Houston Street, then across thepark to where a policeman was having trouble with his motorcycle and I saw aman laying on the grass. This man laying on the grass said the shots came fromthe building and he was pointing to the old Sexton Building. I talked toMarilyn Sitzman, 202 S. Lancaster whosaid her boss, Abraham Zaprutes, RI 86071, had movies of the shooting. She said the shots came from that way and shepointed at the old Sexton Building. I ran at once to the Sexton Building andwent in. I askes some woman how many doors lead out of the building and shesaid 4. I left the building and found some DPD patrolmen and we came back tothe building. I ran up the stairs and the patrolman started trying to get morehelp to search the building. I went upthe stairs to the 7th floor and started up into the attic and noticed that thedoor to the roof was lockedon the inside with a gate type hook latch. Istopped and started back down the stairs taking a quick look on each floor. Imet more officers on the 2nd floor and then in a few minutes the place hadmaybe 50 officers in it. A better search was started floor by floor. About thetime we got started on the 5th floor, Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney found some spenthulls. An officer of the Dallas Police Department told us all to get on oneside of the room and make one clean sweep of the entire floor to see if wecould find the rifle. As we worked our way across the room which was filledwith boxes, we got to the front stairway when Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boon said,"here is the gun". It was about 4 feet in front of me in the aisle inwhich I was working. Deputy Boone stayed at one end of the aisle where the gunwas spotted and I stayed at the other end of the aisle so that nothing would betouched. Officer Day of the DPD Crime Lab came and took pictures of the gun inits hiding spot behind the boxes and then moved it from this spot. I then leftthe building and came back to the Sheriff's Office to talk with witnesses. AMrs. Mary Moorman was in the office with a picture of the President gettingshot.
So, once again Roy Truly and Marrion Baker, Which lie is it men? You were up on an otherwise Locked roof and didn't see Inspector Sawyer before 12:37?
Or, you did see Inspector Sawyer before 12:37, which would mean you were NOT up on the roof? for, quoting Baker here, more than 5 minutes
Which lie is it, Roy Truly? Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer.
Good afternoon, Mr. Mitcham, always a pleasure to cross paths with you albeit electronically. You are a good read sir. Stay classy. Best to you & yours. Semper Fi!
LR Trotter Wrote:Place your bet if you wish, Mr Mitcham.
As may you, Mr Trotter.
I already have, Mr Mitcham. When will you?
Interesting. With whom did you place your bet?
​See post 235, responding to Mr DavidJosephs, but since he "failed to respond", I was just wondering if you wanted to "cover", since you readily "covered" his reply. Unless you wish to do so, well you know the rest.
Quote:But, for the record, I have not seen any interpretation that I agreed with destroyed by AlanFord.
IOW - you still agree with your own opinions of the interpretations....
"destroyed" seems a bit more than needed.... how about an interpretation that makes you think a little more critically ?
nothing offered gives you pause on any single item about which you've come to a conclusion?
wow
::
Before posting. yes. I stand by my conclusions, the SecondFloorLunchRoomEncounter occurred at about 12:31/12:32pm CST, therefor the HoaxTheory is invalid, which all but eliminates any possibility for the LeeHarveyOswaldPrayerManTheory being valid. And, when actual absolute reliable proof is presented, that disproves said conclusions, I will acknowledge said proof and post no more on this forum. But, admittedly, the standard is high. And certainly claiming known, and deceased, eyewitnesses of lying does not qualify as actual absolute reliable proof!
Finally saw your post LR..... sorry for the delay... but since you and Richard fail to address the most basic questions without attacking... can we try again with civility?
After the fact - what he really meant and what he said to a friend but not in his report... Marvin Johnson corroborating Baker is quite a laugh at best and inadmissible evidence at worse...
Simple questions Mr Trotter -
1 - Why does Baker not mention the lunchroom encounter in his affidavit which he writes on the 22nd while describing a completely contradictory event which places "the employee" much closer to the 6th floor than the revised version....one has to wonder who that was on the stairs.... or have you abandoned intellectual curiosity?
2 - Why do the commissioners not ask a single question about this affidavit - a legal statement of events - when Baker tells such a different story?
Mr. BAKER - And as soon as I saw him, I caught a glimpse of him and I ran over there and opened that door and hollered at him.
[/FONT]"As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket."[/FONT]
[/FONT]Mr. BAKER - I never did have a chance to see him in the lineup. I saw him when I went to give the affidavit, the statement that I saw him down there, of the actions of myself and Mr. Truly as we went into the building and on up what we are discussing now.
[/FONT]3 - Why does BAKER lie about the coke when he recants?
Mrs. REID. Well, I kept walking and I looked up and Oswald was coming in the back door of the office. I met him by the time I passed my desk several feet and I told him, I said, "Oh, the President has been shot, but maybe they didn't hit him." [/FONT] He mumbled something to me, I kept walking, he did, too. I didn't pay any attention to what he said because I had no thoughts of anything of him having any connection with it at all because he was very calm. He had gotten a coke and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time, not that he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the office was to come and get change and he already had his coke in his hand so he didn't come for change and I dismissed him. I didn't think anything else.
[/FONT]
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
Quote:But, for the record, I have not seen any interpretation that I agreed with destroyed by AlanFord.
IOW - you still agree with your own opinions of the interpretations....
"destroyed" seems a bit more than needed.... how about an interpretation that makes you think a little more critically ?
nothing offered gives you pause on any single item about which you've come to a conclusion?
wow
::
Before posting. yes. I stand by my conclusions, the SecondFloorLunchRoomEncounter occurred at about 12:31/12:32pm CST, therefor the HoaxTheory is invalid, which all but eliminates any possibility for the LeeHarveyOswaldPrayerManTheory being valid. And, when actual absolute reliable proof is presented, that disproves said conclusions, I will acknowledge said proof and post no more on this forum. But, admittedly, the standard is high. And certainly claiming known, and deceased, eyewitnesses of lying does not qualify as actual absolute reliable proof!
Finally saw your post LR..... sorry for the delay... but since you and Richard fail to address the most basic questions without attacking... can we try again with civility?
After the fact - what he really meant and what he said to a friend but not in his report... Marvin Johnson corroborating Baker is quite a laugh at best and inadmissible evidence at worse...
Simple questions Mr Trotter -
1 - Why does Baker not mention the lunchroom encounter in his affidavit which he writes on the 22nd while describing a completely contradictory event which places "the employee" much closer to the 6th floor than the revised version....one has to wonder who that was on the stairs.... or have you abandoned intellectual curiosity?
2 - Why do the commissioners not ask a single question about this affidavit - a legal statement of events - when Baker tells such a different story?
[FONT=&]Mr. BAKER - And as soon as I saw him, I caught a glimpse of him and I ran over there and opened that door and hollered at him.
[/FONT][FONT=&]"As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket."[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT][FONT=&]Mr. BAKER - I never did have a chance to see him in the lineup. I saw him when I went to give the affidavit, the statement that I saw him down there, of the actions of myself and Mr. Truly as we went into the building and on up what we are discussing now.
[/FONT]3 - Why does BAKER lie about the coke when he recants?
[FONT=&]Mrs. REID. Well, I kept walking and I looked up and Oswald was coming in the back door of the office. I met him by the time I passed my desk several feet and I told him, I said, "Oh, the President has been shot, but maybe they didn't hit him." [/FONT] [FONT=&]He mumbled something to me, I kept walking, he did, too. I didn't pay any attention to what he said because I had no thoughts of anything of him having any connection with it at all because he was very calm. He had gotten a coke and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time, not that he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the office was to come and get change and he already had his coke in his hand so he didn't come for change and I dismissed him. I didn't think anything else.
[/FONT]
This affidavit? I see no grounds for said assertions. All covered and discussed before. As expected at that time, an in general recanting of his experiences shortly before making the statement.
Quote:This affidavit? I see no grounds for said assertions. All covered and discussed before. As expected at that time, an in general recanting of his experiences shortly before making the statement.
That's it? That's all you got?
You see no grounds for a Dallas Policeman to be honest when recalling an event on a legal document - signed no less?
You see no grounds for Baker being charged with perjury (
the offense of willfully telling an untruth in a court after having taken an oath or affirmation.
) ?
Well you may not follow this argument, but anyone with a little common sense can....
BAKER is asked during his testimony to draw out where he was and what he did... that would be CE497... (Mrs Reid uses the same Exhibit)
Following CE497 are numbered photos of the 2nd floor as it was on 11/22....
BAKER doesn't seem able to keep the story straight....
1st, BAKER sees him "AT THIS DOORWAY"
Next BAKER sees him through the window walking away...
BELIN asks him to put a "B" where he was and then to draw a path... the one he took.
BELIN adds the "-1" and all is fine with the world until you actually compare what he said he did to the physical layout...
There is simply no way to see inside the lunchroom from the stairs... you need to be over where he placed the letter "B"...
Except you can't get there... and there would be no reason for BAKER to be eyeballing the window of a door which looked upon the vestibule... He'd be following TRULY up the stairs to the roof...
Even more amazing is WHY Baker even runs to the TSBD.... He has to ignore a direct order from Chief Curry for, as he puts it, "No, Sir. I had it----" yet he cuts himself off before he explains how he "had it" that the shots were up the street... enough so that he does not go to the one place everyone else is going... the RR yard.
Mr. BAKER - I heard Chief Curry, the chief of the police over there, say, "Get some men over on the railroad track." I think everyone at that time thought these shots came from the railroad track. Mr. BELIN - By "everyone" do you include you, too? Mr. BAKER - No, Sir. I had it-- I was in a better position due to the wind and you know under it, that I knew it was directly ahead, and up, and it either had to be this building here or this one over here.
But back to our story.... as you can see from the photo from inside the lunchroom looking out the little window... the only way to see into the lunchroom is to be standing in the middle of those boxes...
So LR... how about helping Dick explain this part away...
It truly becomes amazing what people will expect one to believe in order to accept the WCRBS....
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
Quote:This affidavit? I see no grounds for said assertions. All covered and discussed before. As expected at that time, an in general recanting of his experiences shortly before making the statement.
That's it? That's all you got?
You see no grounds for a Dallas Policeman to be honest when recalling an event on a legal document - signed no less?
You see no grounds for Baker being charged with perjury (
the offense of willfully telling an untruth in a court after having taken an oath or affirmation.
) ?
Well you may not follow this argument, but anyone with a little common sense can....
BAKER is asked during his testimony to draw out where he was and what he did... that would be CE497... (Mrs Reid uses the same Exhibit)
Following CE497 are numbered photos of the 2nd floor as it was on 11/22....
BAKER doesn't seem able to keep the story straight....
1st, BAKER sees him "AT THIS DOORWAY"
Next BAKER sees him through the window walking away...
BELIN asks him to put a "B" where he was and then to draw a path... the one he took.
BELIN adds the "-1" and all is fine with the world until you actually compare what he said he did to the physical layout...
There is simply no way to see inside the lunchroom from the stairs... you need to be over where he placed the letter "B"...
Except you can't get there... and there would be no reason for BAKER to be eyeballing the window of a door which looked upon the vestibule... He'd be following TRULY up the stairs to the roof...
Even more amazing is WHY Baker even runs to the TSBD.... He has to ignore a direct order from Chief Curry for, as he puts it, "No, Sir. I had it----" yet he cuts himself off before he explains how he "had it" that the shots were up the street... enough so that he does not go to the one place everyone else is going... the RR yard.
Mr. BAKER - I heard Chief Curry, the chief of the police over there, say, "Get some men over on the railroad track." I think everyone at that time thought these shots came from the railroad track. Mr. BELIN - By "everyone" do you include you, too? Mr. BAKER - No, Sir. I had it-- I was in a better position due to the wind and you know under it, that I knew it was directly ahead, and up, and it either had to be this building here or this one over here.
But back to our story.... as you can see from the photo from inside the lunchroom looking out the little window... the only way to see into the lunchroom is to be standing in the middle of those boxes...
So LR... how about helping Dick explain this part away...
It truly becomes amazing what people will expect one to believe in order to accept the WCRBS....
Talk about an ideal time to familiarize one's self with Mr. Josephs' apt Signature appearing below his comments.
Quote:This affidavit? I see no grounds for said assertions. All covered and discussed before. As expected at that time, an in general recanting of his experiences shortly before making the statement.
That's it? That's all you got?
You see no grounds for a Dallas Policeman to be honest when recalling an event on a legal document - signed no less?
You see no grounds for Baker being charged with perjury (
the offense of willfully telling an untruth in a court after having taken an oath or affirmation.
) ?
Well you may not follow this argument, but anyone with a little common sense can....
BAKER is asked during his testimony to draw out where he was and what he did... that would be CE497... (Mrs Reid uses the same Exhibit)
Following CE497 are numbered photos of the 2nd floor as it was on 11/22....
BAKER doesn't seem able to keep the story straight....
1st, BAKER sees him "AT THIS DOORWAY"
Next BAKER sees him through the window walking away...
BELIN asks him to put a "B" where he was and then to draw a path... the one he took.
BELIN adds the "-1" and all is fine with the world until you actually compare what he said he did to the physical layout...
There is simply no way to see inside the lunchroom from the stairs... you need to be over where he placed the letter "B"...
Except you can't get there... and there would be no reason for BAKER to be eyeballing the window of a door which looked upon the vestibule... He'd be following TRULY up the stairs to the roof...
Even more amazing is WHY Baker even runs to the TSBD.... He has to ignore a direct order from Chief Curry for, as he puts it, "No, Sir. I had it----" yet he cuts himself off before he explains how he "had it" that the shots were up the street... enough so that he does not go to the one place everyone else is going... the RR yard.
Mr. BAKER - I heard Chief Curry, the chief of the police over there, say, "Get some men over on the railroad track." I think everyone at that time thought these shots came from the railroad track. Mr. BELIN - By "everyone" do you include you, too? Mr. BAKER - No, Sir. I had it-- I was in a better position due to the wind and you know under it, that I knew it was directly ahead, and up, and it either had to be this building here or this one over here.
But back to our story.... as you can see from the photo from inside the lunchroom looking out the little window... the only way to see into the lunchroom is to be standing in the middle of those boxes...
So LR... how about helping Dick explain this part away...
It truly becomes amazing what people will expect one to believe in order to accept the WCRBS....
You referenced the 1st day affidavit, and I simply sought verification, Then in your reply you went to other areas. But, you are right about following your argument, as it does seem to require VERY LITTLE COMMON SENSE!
:![[Image: 0430-001.gif]](http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0430-001.gif)