The Vehicle on the Grassy Knoll

[Dawn Meredith]

[QUOTE=
I have a hard time believing that Jay would end a friendship over someone learning his middle name. But given just HOW private he was...I am sure HE did not want anyone researching him. In part it was fear. Some of the people with whom he worked met with very early demises. One in particular was one that haunted him up until his death. Stephen Pegues. They worked on much together including Mac Wallace. Jay wanted that story told and I did learn from Billie Sol Estes that he-Estes- had indeed bought those rights. Pegues died under most mysterious circumstances and his work was stolen, at the same time. This spooked Jay out 'til the end.
Dawn

SHIT!! This many not mean much to others here, but after typing the name "Stephen Pegues" above I decided to google it along with the name Mac Wallace to see if there was anything on the net re this important work. A post- a Q and A- between myself and Glen Sample at Ef came up, which I am reposting here. The relevent part is that it was Pegues who gave Sample "The Estes Documnets", which is the correspondance between Attorney Doug Caddy and then- (1984)- Asst. Atty. Gen. Stephen Trott that detailed the alleged murders committeed by Mac Wallace on behalf of LBJ. I had long wondered just how Sample came into possession of those most important letters and never for a MOMENT thought that Doug Caddy was the source.
I know there are many in the research world who poo poo the importance of the TX connection. I have not ever been one of those people. I know of too many suspicously dead people who ventured down this path. (Most recently one Floyd Stephens, another friend and long story).
Dawn


Dec 14 2006, 04:28 AM Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19
Joined: 12-April 06
Member No.: 4567



QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Dec 9 2006, 05:43 PM)
Glen:

Re your fingerprint expert out there who said there was no match. I have a couple of questions: Everything I know about your work on the print came from J. Harrison. The times we spoke on the phone I meant to ask you these questions but got sidetracked. (Should have made notes to self

1. How was your guy's study done? By this I mean was he presented with the latent and the known Wallace print, in a "blind" fashion, like Nathan Darby was? Or did he know exactly what he was observing?

**********************************
I e-mailed a regional fingerprint organization called SCAFO http://www.scafo.org/ and requested assistance in identifying a
print from an old crime scene. My request was answered by a young Police officer from San Bernardino P.D. The prints I had were horrible. The young officer and his superior did what they could do with what I had. To that point, I had not mentioned the
JFK case. Later, I did mention the circumstances of the prints, something I now realize to be unprofessional and counterproductive.
However, the intrigue moved these two officers to request a better fingerprint from Austin. When they received the print, they again examined for a match, but to no avail. I was not permitted to keep the print. No mention was made to me about any violation of department rules, but I got the impression that they were stretching something to get this print. I was totally convinced by these men that the print was not a match, although they did admit that there were several points that did match.
As they explained it, there were also several points that did not match.

*************************************

2. What were his credentials? You know of course that Nathan was not only a top certified expert, but that he taught the science of fingerprinting to police officers in Austin for many years. Did your guy even remotely compare?

*************************************

I am well aware of Nathan's career and his experience. Brilliant indeed! My guys were fingerprint officers, who routinely investigated crime scenes. Nothing spectacular, but I was totally convinced that we had reached a dead end with the prints.
What's more, I had nothing to go on, since the austin print was kept by the S.B. officers and they later told me that they were ordered not to go any further with the case. Eventually I later came into possession of clearer prints from various individuals involved with J. and his group. How I wish that I would have made contact with Nathan Darby a long time ago.

**************************************

3. J told me many times that because you obtained this known Wallace print from Austin's Department of Public Safety "with no case to which to attach said print" (J. Harrison) , that this consitituted a violation of DPS' policy, which has since rendered a dead end for anyone else to now obtain this print. I tried, at Nathan's request, many avenues to obtain a second print for him after his home was illegally entered and this entire Wallace file was stolen. (A burglar alarm was bypassed and nothing else was taken, causing Nathan to fear that his life may have been in danger). Can you comment on how you obtained the print? And the alleged ramifications of same?
***************************************

That may be true, I'm not aware of any of these ramifications, but I'm pretty sure that the Wallace print we now have, the one
nathan worked with, is clear enough. What is NOT clear, however, is the box print latent. That is, in my opinion, where the problem is. Nathan told us about the break in of his home. I felt bad for him as he was home alone for much of the time and
this would be disturbing to anyone.

By the way, J and I had many wonderful dialogues for quite a long period of time. What a splendid researcher! Did he ever tell you that it was I who put him in touch with Stephen Pegues? J. was terribly upset and shaken the day Stephen died, as was I. Pegues was one of the sources of the "Estes" letters that Mark and I made public and later included in a later edition of "The Men on the Sixth Floor." The other source of those long secret files is a member of this forum........

***************************************

4. When you visited Nathan what was it that caused you to change your mind and agree that there was indeed a match?

******************************************

Well, first and foremost was Nathan's 100% positive assurance that there was a match. I first noticed that in the "Guilty Men" documentary, and then again when I reached him by phone. When Mark and I visited him, he was no less confident in his work.
Step by step he took us through the process. I still have many pages of his hand written notes and diagrams. And while I am
convinced that there is a match, the quality of the box 29 print is such that we may never get a concensus. But in my mind, Nathan IS the concensus!

Let me also appologize for not answering sooner. I could not find this thread.

Glen

[Peter Lemkin]

I'm sure more can be done, didn't mean the work was complete. In fact, I don't know of anyone else who's even seen and commented on the quality of Jay's work other than Walt - who did tell me some general things - but I'm not at the moment inclined to necessarily believe - though it could be true. He said much of it was geneological work-ups. Walt also most recently [just before the public letter from Charles on the internet] that Jay's work was 'mostly useless' - possible - but I really doubt it. I meant that the basics of who Seiwell was, for example, and how he tied-in with the TX-MI over time; DPD; CIA; anti-Castro Cubans; Texas rich and right; others we know about; Tosh; etc. must be done well beyond where we generally are now. And many other TX and Dallas players or those suspected of having been. One can always do more and more documents are always becoming available - although fewer people remain. Linda, was your friend able to in any way evaluate the general quality of Harrison's research?

Based on what my friend who worked with Jay told me about what they did together over a period of months, I would have to agree that much of what Jay left for Walt was genealogical work, which he saved in a format in a software program that cannot be quickly converted to html. And he didn't explain how the genealogy fit into other research he did. Much of it was guesswork; the kind of stuff I also do, which involves searching for possible connections between people. I'm sure that is what Walt would have meant by "useless," because Jay didn't throw out anything after he looked at it and discarded it, just in case he would find later it did tie back in.

My friend idolizes Jay to the this day, suspecting, but not being quite sure, that Jay knew much more than he would ever say, given the fact that he was so totally paranoid. In fact, Jay cut off relations with my friend, dropped him flat, just as he had done Richard Bartholomew earlier, because my friend mentioned to Jay that he had discovered his middle name! Jay was that suspicious of everyone, and he researched everyone. That's why the research he left is so voluminous.

When one sees the interconnections by marriage, friendships and families that go on, geneological work could be very helpful, indeed. While I hear Jay did lots of that, he also tracked the connections and activities of many of those we are all interested in, but made VERY little of this available to others in his lifetime! So, a huge body of knowledge done by someone who could have a drink with an old DPD or MI guy and not arouse their suspicions that he was a 'researcher' per se - just shooting the breeze on old things.....

If Walt finds this stuff so useless one would think he'd be glad to get rid of it. I find that comment of his misleading.

I'm told by Walt that the Plumlee materials are at least 4.000 pages - perhaps more. There would be another similar amount on the Rambler and yet another on Seiwell, etc. It can't all be geneology!...

Tosh was set-up twice on bad check charges and I worked with him on the second occassion and proved to my satisfaction that it was manufactured out of 'whole cloth' and had no basis in fact. I assumed the same was done the first time, as well; and that this was SOP - and done to distance and discredit covert operatives [making them look like common criminals], as well as make sure they kept their mouths shut and knew they could be manipulated at will and do nothing about it.

[Linda Minor]

When one sees the interconnections by marriage, friendships and families that go on, geneological work could be very helpful, indeed. While I hear Jay did lots of that, he also tracked the connections and activities of many of those we are all interested in, but made VERY little of this available to others in his lifetime! So, a huge body of knowledge done by someone who could have a drink with an old DPD or MI guy and not arouse their suspicions that he was a 'researcher' per se - just shooting the breeze on old things.....

If Walt finds this stuff so useless one would think he'd be glad to get rid of it. I find that comment of his misleading.

I'm told by Walt that the Plumlee materials are at least 4.000 pages - perhaps more. There would be another similar amount on the Rambler and yet another on Seiwell, etc. It can't all be geneology!...

Tosh was set-up twice on bad check charges and I worked with him on the second occassion and proved to my satisfaction that it was manufactured out of 'whole cloth' and had no basis in fact. I assumed the same was done the first time, as well; and that this was SOP - and done to distance and discredit covert operatives [making them look like common criminals], as well as make sure they kept their mouths shut and knew they could be manipulated at will and do nothing about it.

As I indicated, much of the information on computer is not convertible to html or email format. Neither is the hard material digitized. I suspect Walt is overwhelmed with the task. It's a lot of work and expense just to move it about, let alone sort through and analyze it. What he needs is someone to go to his location and help him go through it or come up with alternatives of how to get it in usable format during our lifetime.

[Peter Lemkin]

When one sees the interconnections by marriage, friendships and families that go on, geneological work could be very helpful, indeed. While I hear Jay did lots of that, he also tracked the connections and activities of many of those we are all interested in, but made VERY little of this available to others in his lifetime! So, a huge body of knowledge done by someone who could have a drink with an old DPD or MI guy and not arouse their suspicions that he was a 'researcher' per se - just shooting the breeze on old things.....

If Walt finds this stuff so useless one would think he'd be glad to get rid of it. I find that comment of his misleading.

I'm told by Walt that the Plumlee materials are at least 4.000 pages - perhaps more. There would be another similar amount on the Rambler and yet another on Seiwell, etc. It can't all be geneology!...

Tosh was set-up twice on bad check charges and I worked with him on the second occassion and proved to my satisfaction that it was manufactured out of 'whole cloth' and had no basis in fact. I assumed the same was done the first time, as well; and that this was SOP - and done to distance and discredit covert operatives [making them look like common criminals], as well as make sure they kept their mouths shut and knew they could be manipulated at will and do nothing about it.

As I indicated, much of the information on computer is not convertible to html or email format. Neither is the hard material digitized. I suspect Walt is overwhelmed with the task. It's a lot of work and expense just to move it about, let alone sort through and analyze it. What he needs is someone to go to his location and help him go through it or come up with alternatives of how to get it in usable format during our lifetime.

We are awaiting to see what Walt does or doesn't do. He gave the distinct inpression to two of us I know of that he was going to digitize the entire thing. That turned-out, it seems to have been untrue. I have not had a comfirmed report that anyone has had access to it yet, other than the one time Walt referred to someone looking at the Plumlee materials at the same time he was refusing to send out of the country [the once all but promised] files to me. I'm not sure that is true, and would be an amazing coincidence out of all the files there. There are even rumors that Walt doesn't even have the materials any more - but I can not say. If anyone has heard of someone having been granted access to the Harrison materials lately, I'm sure we'd all like to know, and would breathe a sigh of relief. I'm sure that any kind of computer file can be converted into another if you have a programer to help out. Scanning is a lot of work, but there are scanners with feeders or one could hire someone to just endlessly scan away. I know some of Jay's files were large and not of standard size paper, which would also entail extra work, but I believe these are the geneologies. We all hope the materials see the light of day to researchers sooner, rather than later or not at all. I'm sure many researchers would be willing to help find the funds and/or people to digitize them somehow - if we ever have the chance to use them........

[Albert Doyle]

I suspect Bowers saw men in police uniforms, Secret Service suits, and railroad overalls shoot the president from behind the picket fence and operate as a team afterwards in order to cover-up their doings. Bowers wasn't stupid, he knew a CIA-job when he saw one and knew he was a sitting-duck up there in that yard tower. Bowers probably instantly added up the strange cars coming into the lot, the camouflaged assassins, and their pretending to be persons of authority after the shooting and knew when to shut-up.

Bowers only came clean when he realized another person of authority, Holland, had also witnessed some picket fence evidence and spoke to him about it. He then felt a little safer admitting he saw a gun because he then realized he wasn't the only one to witness it - which was a highly dangerous thing to be. Perhaps, and just perhaps, Bowers saw a man in a police uniform shoot Kennedy and wasn't exactly sure whether or not it was an actual Dallas cop. His uncertainty may have led him to stay very quiet just in case it was. Plus, we don't know what kind of leading questions Bower received? We do know others received very intimidating questions giving them the incentive to go with the official story.

A fatal one car crash that managed to hit an overpass abutment in an otherwise open stretch of highway was Bowers' fate a few years later. Bowers' sinus condition was eventually blamed.

[Peter Lemkin]

When one sees the interconnections by marriage, friendships and families that go on, geneological work could be very helpful, indeed. While I hear Jay did lots of that, he also tracked the connections and activities of many of those we are all interested in, but made VERY little of this available to others in his lifetime! So, a huge body of knowledge done by someone who could have a drink with an old DPD or MI guy and not arouse their suspicions that he was a 'researcher' per se - just shooting the breeze on old things.....

If Walt finds this stuff so useless one would think he'd be glad to get rid of it. I find that comment of his misleading.

I'm told by Walt that the Plumlee materials are at least 4.000 pages - perhaps more. There would be another similar amount on the Rambler and yet another on Seiwell, etc. It can't all be geneology!...

Tosh was set-up twice on bad check charges and I worked with him on the second occassion and proved to my satisfaction that it was manufactured out of 'whole cloth' and had no basis in fact. I assumed the same was done the first time, as well; and that this was SOP - and done to distance and discredit covert operatives [making them look like common criminals], as well as make sure they kept their mouths shut and knew they could be manipulated at will and do nothing about it.

As I indicated, much of the information on computer is not convertible to html or email format. Neither is the hard material digitized. I suspect Walt is overwhelmed with the task. It's a lot of work and expense just to move it about, let alone sort through and analyze it. What he needs is someone to go to his location and help him go through it or come up with alternatives of how to get it in usable format during our lifetime.

We are awaiting to see what Walt does or doesn't do. He gave the distinct inpression to two of us I know of that he was going to digitize the entire thing. That turned-out, it seems to have been untrue. I have not had a comfirmed report that anyone has had access to it yet, other than the one time Walt referred to someone looking at the Plumlee materials at the same time he was refusing to send out of the country [the once all but promised] files to me. I'm not sure that is true, and would be an amazing coincidence out of all the files there. There are even rumors that Walt doesn't even have the materials any more - but I can not say. If anyone has heard of someone having been granted access to the Harrison materials lately, I'm sure we'd all like to know, and would breathe a sigh of relief. I'm sure that any kind of computer file can be converted into another if you have a programer to help out. Scanning is a lot of work, but there are scanners with feeders or one could hire someone to just endlessly scan away. I know some of Jay's files were large and not of standard size paper, which would also entail extra work, but I believe these are the geneologies. We all hope the materials see the light of day to researchers sooner, rather than later or not at all. I'm sure many researchers would be willing to help find the funds and/or people to digitize them somehow - if we ever have the chance to use them........

Time to revive this thread...which actually contains several separate sub-threads [although all interconnected]. There was the original theme of Honest Joe's station wagon - likely near the Knoll during the shooting and seen all around DP that day. There is the Harrison materials theme; at the time of this tread being active WB was refusing me access to the files, but indicated an unnamed researcher was being allowed access. We know know that that person was the most capable Joan Mellen and her book based on SOME select portion of Harrison's files is due out very soon! There is also the thread related to Seiwell and the Sportatorium et al. that Linda brought in from a post by Plumlee on the 'other' Forum. I worked on Tosh's story with him for many years - and paid a very high price for it...a story for another time. I am, however, still in contact with Plumlee. Seiwell was the person who brought Plumlee into the spook world, with the military as cover. Lastly, there was the sub-thread on the Rambler that 'Oswald' was seen to enter by Craig; that Oswald begged the DPD to not involve Ruth Paine over [her Rambler]; that was found by Jay and moved by Plumlee. Quite a bit of important material on this thread. I'm privy to at least three separate matters relevant to this/these thread[s] that are important, but I'm pledged to hold in confidence - i.e. there is even more significance to the already significant things mentioned here!

It is also to be noted some important contributors to the solution of the JFK Assassination who posted on this thread are no longer with us: Jack White, my friend, who sadly has died; Linda Minor, who for reasons unknown to me has stopped posting here, but continues her research and has her own blog; James Richards, who has completely withdrawn from posting about the JFK Assassination, anywhere [his last post on this Forum was 12-29-2009]; and 'Tosh' Plumlee, who is busy finishing his own book in time for the 50th, and is not [for other reasons] posting anymore on any forums.

[Charles Drago]

Very timely bump, Peter.

[Peter Lemkin]

Best image I can find at moment.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4384[/ATTACH]

[LR Trotter]

I would like to thank Mr Lemkin for this "very timely bump". This is my first viewing as it was posted and discussed prior to my signing on to DPF and monitoring this valued information. While Mr Lemkin and I have agreed to disagree on occasion, I appreciate this opportunity to catch up a little.

:coffee:

[Adele Edisen]

Tue, March 5, 2013 7:38:04 PM
Appeals Court rules Dallas must allow conspiracy vendors at Dealey Plaza
From: Ed T

(I originally posted this new topic here in error, but I decided to leave it here because a video I found shows what is being done to Dealey Plaza
and the Grassy Knoll now. - AE)


Video: 2:31 minutes long

http://www.wfaa.com/news


> Court rules Dallas must allow conspiracy vendors at Dealey Plaza.
>
> by BRAD WATSON
> WFAA
> Updated today at 6:07 PM
>
> (The case was decided by Judge Kristin Wade, of the Dallas County Criminal
> Court of Appeals.)
>
> DALLAS -- An appellate court ruled Tuesday that the city of Dallas must stop
> an enforcement effort against JFK conspiracy vendors selling materials at
> Dealey Plaza ahead of the 50th anniversary of Kennedy's assassination.
>
> The Dallas County Criminal Court of Appeals ruled in favor of Robert Groden,
> a longtime conspiracy theorist and vendor who was arrested in
> 2010 for selling merchandise in Dealey Plaza. The appellate court upheld a
> lower court's decision to toss the city's case out.
>
> "It's a matter of free speech, it's a First Amendment issue," Groden said.
> "The city wanted us out of here; it didn't want anyone giving an alternative
> point of view about the Kennedy assassination."
>
> Workers are already laying new sod at Dealey Plaza in an effort to upgrade
> the area before Nov. 22, the anniversary of John F. Kennedy's death. In
> 2010, police arrested Groden for selling merchandise at a park, claiming
> that vendors harassed visitors.
>
> But the judge pointed out that the city doesn't list Dealey Plaza as a park,
> and there wasn't a way to get a sales permit. The city told News 8 it won't
> appeal further.
>
> So the vendors remain and some visitors like Peter Crowell from Punta Gorda,
> Fla., support them.
>
> "Well, first of all, it's the United States of America. You know, I mean,
> these are all protected rights that we all have," he said.
>
> Since Groden's arrest, the City Council revised the law to allow the sale of
> First Amendment-protected items.
>
> On the anniversary, The 50th Committee expects 5,000 tickets to be available
> for the event. About two thirds of those will be handed out to the public at
> random. But Groden is already skeptical if conspiracy buffs will be
> included.
>
> "Who determines who gets the tickets?," Groden wondered.
>
> The Dealey Plaza renovation should be finished by the end of March,
> according to the contractor, Dallas-based Phoenix Restoration and
> Construction.

Adele