Craig Zirbel's new book The Final Chapter On the Assassination of John F. Kennedy

[James H. Fetzer]

You mean that I posted an announcement that the book had appeared? And from that you infer that therefore I must agree with everything its author says, even if I haven't read it yet--which, of course, remains the case to this day?

Get a grip, Jim. You have pulled this nonsense in relation to several authors and books that I like by assuming that, if I like a book, I THEREFORE ACCEPT EVERY CLAIM THE BOOK MAKES. That is your typical mode of reasoning!

Some would say, "Simple minded!" I would say, "Block headed!", in the sense that you treat a person's views, no matter how complex, as though they had to be accepted or reject IN TOTAL. That is very unsophisticated.

That I like James Douglass' book does not mean that I think he has everything right. He does a great job of explaining how JFK had antagonized very powerful special interest groups, such as the Joint Chiefs, the CIA, and the establishment.

That does not imply that he has explained how the assassination was carried out. In my view, that is the contribution made by Phil Nelson's book, even though you seem to be mentally incapacitated from appreciating that.

You have several times insisted that I cannot endorse JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE at the same time I endorse LBJ: MASTERMIND OF JFK'S ASSASSINATION. If I were endorsing every detail of both books at the same time, you might have a point.

Instead, you are simply displaying your BLOCK HEADED approach. You really need to exercise your intellect. I can appreciate Douglass for explaining why they wanted him out and Nelson for explaining how it was done, with Lyndon in the pivotal role.

For the record, Fetzer posted a blurb for the Farrell book on Spartacus.

That is where I got that part of the post.

And I did mean Family of Secrets of course.

His defense of his endorsement of the Nelson book is hapless. Summed up it says that Douglass showed why the villains wanted to kill Kennedy. Nelson then showed us how they did it.

This is as short sighted as his endorsement of Turner using Barr M.

It misses the point that Douglass applies no conspiratorial role to LBJ!!!


Douglass is pretty clear on who he thinks killed Kennedy. (And if you did not understand that then you did not read the book carefully.) And its not LBJ. I mean what the heck did LBJ have to do with Chicago? Or the Raleigh call? Or Bernard Haire?

But the thing about Douglass is this: No one could ever question the quality of his research or his sources. Which is something I congratulated him on. Now, if you do a qualitative comparison of Douglass' sources with Nelson's, I mean, are you serious?

The irony is, I actually think he is.

[James H. Fetzer]

Bernice is a good and decent person who cares about discovering the truth. You are not. I have read enough of your rubbish to know that, if it was written by you, I REALLY don't want to read it. Be more respectful of your betters. There is more good and decency in her least digit than could ever be found in your entire body. And Madeleine, too, was a good and decent person who cared about the truth. They both represent a form of humanity that far transcends your decadent being.

seamus; quote;''Good one Ron. Her story 'hangs around' like a bad smell. When you spoke to her was she taking a dump by any chance? Hmmmm the smell certainly stuck in your clothes! (and your the one accusing myself of bad smells) When you get John Hanky on your show (which I urge you to do) ask him about his comments regarding Miss Brown as a hooker. But beware even the worst researcher in JFK history Hanky himself said 'If Hunt says LBJ did it, it's reason enough to think he didn't'. This means your officially even worse than he is.:thumbsdown:

Oh Ron is it me or were you and Lifton banned from the Lancer forum? Oh yeah and please tell everyone about the chances of you guys doing a Lancer conference ever again while your at it. Full credit too Lancer for finally ridding themselves of you both.


Shame; In the first place Madeleine Brown is dead, and cannot speak for herself, do you make it a habit of speaking ill of dead witnesses,
In the second place you have no idea what went down on the lancer forum or at any conference, you were not present for either sounds like you are still into gossip...:gossip:....grow up please...b

Hey Bernice. It's nice to know that Jim F has some support.

I heard nothing of you nor any gossip from Lancer. I heard it straight from those involved with the forum simply put that Jim Fetzer and Lifton were banned from it.

What difference should it make what conference I went too? If Jim Fetzer was at it I wouldn't bother going. Simple as that.

In fact I suggest you do the growing up here and if you don't want me talk ill about dead witnesses (of which Madeliene Brown was hardly one) then you better stop discussing Dave Ferrie, Clay Shaw and all manner and matter of individuals. If that's of course the rules you wanna play by.

She put her self up for public scrutiny (as we all do) and she got slapped from all directions.
It happens!

You'll also note that Ron was the first person to discuss matters of fecal matter coming from an anus by the way. Not me. Your highly selective and dare I say blinded approach too this matter is of greater concern than any purported dishonour to Miss Brown. Whom despite your melodramatic prose I actually had respect for her as a human being but have little respect for her worth in the field of JFK research.

Bernice like Jim Di says do you really think Phil Nelson is on a par with Jim Douglas? Note Douglas never bought the party story!

[Jim DiEugenio]

JIm:

1.) You posted a blurb for the book on Spartacus.

Why would you do that if you had read and disagreed with the book?

You yourself have said that you wanted to publicize the Nelson book since you waned to push the LBJ angle. Is that not consistent with what you did with Farrell?

2.) This is what I said about your approaches to Douglass and Nelson: NO person who understands the true achievement of JFK and the Unspeakable could compare it in any way to Nelson. And I truly believe that.

Part of this, as i said, is the quality of the base materials. I mean are there any references to Sy Hersh's Dark Side of Camelot or JFK and MM in Douglass?

Nelson had no problem with that and much more.

[James H. Fetzer]

I can't believe you are this simple minded. I posted a notice of the book because it was on a relevant topic and it looked interesting. I STILL HAVEN'T READ IT. I can't believe you are this childish in your thinking. I recommend the Nelson book because I THINK HE HAS IT RIGHT. I have no idea yet about the other one. Are you really this dumb?

Your remark about Hersh displays another of your tendencies. If anyone has anything wrong, then you dismiss their work as worthless. If we applied that standard to you, since you have pegged me wrong, we should reject everything you've ever done. I am coming to believe that both phrases apply: you are block headed and simple minded.

JIm:

1.) You posted a blurb for the book on Spartacus.

Why would you do that if you had read and disagreed with the book?

You yourself have said that you wanted to publicize the Nelson book since you waned to push the LBJ angle. Is that not consistent with what you did with Farrell?

2.) This is what I said about your approaches to Douglass and Nelson: NO person who understands the true achievement of JFK and the Unspeakable could compare it in any way to Nelson. And I truly believe that.

Part of this, as i said, is the quality of the base materials. I mean are there any references to Sy Hersh's Dark Side of Camelot or JFK and MM in Douglass?

Nelson had no problem with that and much more.

[Seamus Coogan]

Bernice is a good and decent person who cares about discovering the truth. You are not. I have read enough of your rubbish to know that, if it was written by you, I REALLY don't want to read it. Be more respectful of your betters. There is more good and decency in her least digit than could ever be found in your entire body. And Madeleine, too, was a good and decent person who cared about the truth. They both represent a form of humanity that far transcends your decadent being.

seamus; quote;''Good one Ron. Her story 'hangs around' like a bad smell. When you spoke to her was she taking a dump by any chance? Hmmmm the smell certainly stuck in your clothes! (and your the one accusing myself of bad smells) When you get John Hanky on your show (which I urge you to do) ask him about his comments regarding Miss Brown as a hooker. But beware even the worst researcher in JFK history Hanky himself said 'If Hunt says LBJ did it, it's reason enough to think he didn't'. This means your officially even worse than he is.:thumbsdown:

Oh Ron is it me or were you and Lifton banned from the Lancer forum? Oh yeah and please tell everyone about the chances of you guys doing a Lancer conference ever again while your at it. Full credit too Lancer for finally ridding themselves of you both.


Shame; In the first place Madeleine Brown is dead, and cannot speak for herself, do you make it a habit of speaking ill of dead witnesses,
In the second place you have no idea what went down on the lancer forum or at any conference, you were not present for either sounds like you are still into gossip...:gossip:....grow up please...b

Hey Bernice. It's nice to know that Jim F has some support.

I heard nothing of you nor any gossip from Lancer. I heard it straight from those involved with the forum simply put that Jim Fetzer and Lifton were banned from it.

What difference should it make what conference I went too? If Jim Fetzer was at it I wouldn't bother going. Simple as that.

In fact I suggest you do the growing up here and if you don't want me talk ill about dead witnesses (of which Madeliene Brown was hardly one) then you better stop discussing Dave Ferrie, Clay Shaw and all manner and matter of individuals. If that's of course the rules you wanna play by.

She put her self up for public scrutiny (as we all do) and she got slapped from all directions.
It happens!

You'll also note that Ron was the first person to discuss matters of fecal matter coming from an anus by the way. Not me. Your highly selective and dare I say blinded approach too this matter is of greater concern than any purported dishonour to Miss Brown. Whom despite your melodramatic prose I actually had respect for her as a human being but have little respect for her worth in the field of JFK research.

Bernice like Jim Di says do you really think Phil Nelson is on a par with Jim Douglas? Note Douglas never bought the party story!

Ron dear Ron.

While you lambast my work (which I sincerely doubt you will ever read as it will be massively ego deflating for you). I have to say that there's elements of your other work I do find interesting. Your views on science and technology and the philosophy of it all is actually pretty cool I also think you have some good social commentary stuff and I used too enjoy you talking about wider political agendas on BOR.

But Ron when it comes to JFK and conspiratorial stuff in general your balance and reasoning is completely and utterly lost in a very muddy pool.

Oh by the way I have no problems with Bernice. She may have with myself but I personally enjoy most of her posts. She has every right to defend Miss Brown.

I also have a right to stand up for myself or give my opinion as do you both after all this is a forum.

Bernice aside Ron, if you listen closely you can hear me playing the smallest violin in the world for Miss Brown.

A woman so concerned about the truth she got done for insurance fraud and invented a cock and bull story about a non existent party in the process.
Mind you in the course of this discussion you've offered up a number of people as credibile witnesses or researchers who have been convicted on dishonesty charges so it's all par for the course for you Ron as far as assassination stuff is concerned!!!!!!

But Ron if you weren't getting your jollies on Farrells book coming out why mention it ON THE forum in the first place? Indeed theres been a number of excellent books out there which you have never raised a thread on. It's like you reach climax each time someone mentions LBJ.

Don't you think it's a little dumb to trump a book that you have never read?

[Bernice Moore]

seamus; quote;''Good one Ron. Her story 'hangs around' like a bad smell. When you spoke to her was she taking a dump by any chance? Hmmmm the smell certainly stuck in your clothes! (and your the one accusing myself of bad smells) When you get John Hanky on your show (which I urge you to do) ask him about his comments regarding Miss Brown as a hooker. But beware even the worst researcher in JFK history Hanky himself said 'If Hunt says LBJ did it, it's reason enough to think he didn't'. This means your officially even worse than he is.:thumbsdown:

Oh Ron is it me or were you and Lifton banned from the Lancer forum? Oh yeah and please tell everyone about the chances of you guys doing a Lancer conference ever again while your at it. Full credit too Lancer for finally ridding themselves of you both.


Shame; In the first place Madeleine Brown is dead, and cannot speak for herself, do you make it a habit of speaking ill of dead witnesses,
In the second place you have no idea what went down on the lancer forum or at any conference, you were not present for either sounds like you are still into gossip...:gossip:....grow up please...b

Hey Bernice. It's nice to know that Jim F has some support.

I heard nothing of you nor any gossip from Lancer. I heard it straight from those involved with the forum simply put that Jim Fetzer and Lifton were banned from it.

What difference should it make what conference I went too? If Jim Fetzer was at it I wouldn't bother going. Simple as that.

In fact I suggest you do the growing up here and if you don't want me talk ill about dead witnesses (of which Madeliene Brown was hardly one) then you better stop discussing Dave Ferrie, Clay Shaw and all manner and matter of individuals. If that's of course the rules you wanna play by.

She put her self up for public scrutiny (as we all do) and she got slapped from all directions.
It happens!

You'll also note that Ron was the first person to discuss matters of fecal matter coming from an anus by the way. Not me. Your highly selective and dare I say blinded approach too this matter is of greater concern than any purported dishonour to Miss Brown. Whom despite your melodramatic prose I actually had respect for her as a human being but have little respect for her worth in the field of JFK research.

Bernice like Jim Di says do you really think Phil Nelson is on a par with Jim Douglas? Note Douglas never bought the party story!

I think you like to try to over dramatize your importance seamus, what i would like to point out to you, is how you are and have in the past are dragging the Lancer forum and it's adm, into this type of crap that you post here on another forum, debra has been very ill, and i know she would certainly not appreciate you keeping relating gossip learned there from whomevers, so they are and can use you to throw it here and create a broo haw, stir the fires by giving you what they think is amunition against dr.jim and or others, it is soooooooooo old, and you have are and do, while they sit back and laugh both at you and whomever you throw it at, they are using you,and this forum also, whch i really object to to do so, stop listening to their crap and get you and your reputation what's left away from them, talk about vendetta's, some must really have had their noses out of joint to hang on to imagined terrible slights of the past that they simply cannot grow out of, that is known as shit disturbing, and you have done it before here and continue, you do not seem to realize you smear the lancer name each time you do so, you should break your contact with the gossip mongers there, who keep filling you in, with the so calleds, that repeat and build up what may have happened years ago, which i know debra has tried to put in the past and carry on and has made an effort to do so, but gossipy little school boys like you make yourself appear to be, just keep dragging her back, that's why the grow up, continues to stick to you, and yet you have had so much to say about morrow and his gossip, you two appear to be conned by the same type of shite in your naivete, you are hurting your reputation and lancer's by doing so, keep it up, and it will only sink you deeper, only children or teenie boppers repeat gossip,in school yards, adults are not interested,let alone believe, you choose, it's your neck........as far as the books are concerned, i believe i have said in the past to each their own, the world of jfk research is not going to end, because two or three differ in their opnions of a certain book,or books, the majority could care less, they only care about what they get out of such..the continuing broo haws over such only do one thing imo, they waste resources, not to say people should not post their opinions, but the how many times must they repeat, comes into it, nor do they need imo to take each part of said book apart and continue to post and stress each of their points, once is enough,people can read there is no need imo for continuing repetition, over and over to the point of nauseum, nor each other, so people differ, get over it, and get back to carrying on the good fight, and using their incredible knowledge where it belongs instead of AGAINST EACH OTHER, CTRS ARE AT TIMES THEIR OWN WORSE ENEMIES, NEVER MIND THE DAVID VON PEINS..... sorry for the caps, excuse please...So seamus imo stop proving you are nothing but a pawn being used by some, to spread their gossip and and get back to your studies and research, and do some good instead of continuing to try to hinder...simply let them know if they have anything to say to do so by posting here in their own names, step up to the mike on their own, wanna bet they do not ???and stop allowing them to use yours to throw anymore old tired worn out gossipy mongering old mud.that i know debra would not appreciate nor the adm there, think for yourself and show it in the future....b:kraka:

[Seamus Coogan]

seamus; quote;''Good one Ron. Her story 'hangs around' like a bad smell. When you spoke to her was she taking a dump by any chance? Hmmmm the smell certainly stuck in your clothes! (and your the one accusing myself of bad smells) When you get John Hanky on your show (which I urge you to do) ask him about his comments regarding Miss Brown as a hooker. But beware even the worst researcher in JFK history Hanky himself said 'If Hunt says LBJ did it, it's reason enough to think he didn't'. This means your officially even worse than he is.:thumbsdown:

Oh Ron is it me or were you and Lifton banned from the Lancer forum? Oh yeah and please tell everyone about the chances of you guys doing a Lancer conference ever again while your at it. Full credit too Lancer for finally ridding themselves of you both.


Shame; In the first place Madeleine Brown is dead, and cannot speak for herself, do you make it a habit of speaking ill of dead witnesses,
In the second place you have no idea what went down on the lancer forum or at any conference, you were not present for either sounds like you are still into gossip...:gossip:....grow up please...b

Hey Bernice. It's nice to know that Jim F has some support.

I heard nothing of you nor any gossip from Lancer. I heard it straight from those involved with the forum simply put that Jim Fetzer and Lifton were banned from it.

What difference should it make what conference I went too? If Jim Fetzer was at it I wouldn't bother going. Simple as that.

In fact I suggest you do the growing up here and if you don't want me talk ill about dead witnesses (of which Madeliene Brown was hardly one) then you better stop discussing Dave Ferrie, Clay Shaw and all manner and matter of individuals. If that's of course the rules you wanna play by.

She put her self up for public scrutiny (as we all do) and she got slapped from all directions.
It happens!

You'll also note that Ron was the first person to discuss matters of fecal matter coming from an anus by the way. Not me. Your highly selective and dare I say blinded approach too this matter is of greater concern than any purported dishonour to Miss Brown. Whom despite your melodramatic prose I actually had respect for her as a human being but have little respect for her worth in the field of JFK research.

Bernice like Jim Di says do you really think Phil Nelson is on a par with Jim Douglas? Note Douglas never bought the party story!

I think you like to try to over dramatize your importance seamus, what i would like to point out to you, is how you are and have in the past are dragging the Lancer forum and it's adm, into this type of crap that you post here on another forum, debra has been very ill, and i know she would certainly not appreciate you keeping relating gossip learned there from whomevers, so they are and can use you to throw it here and create a broo haw, stir the fires by giving you what they think is amunition against dr.jim and or others, it is soooooooooo old, and you have are and do, while they sit back and laugh both at you and whomever you throw it at, they are using you,and this forum also, whch i really object to to do so, stop listening to their crap and get you and your reputation what's left away from them, talk about vendetta's, some must really have had their noses out of joint to hang on to imagined terrible slights of the past that they simply cannot grow out of, that is known as shit disturbing, and you have done it before here and continue, you do not seem to realize you smear the lancer name each time you do so, you should break your contact with the gossip mongers there, who keep filling you in, with the so calleds, that repeat and build up what may have happened years ago, which i know debra has tried to put in the past and carry on and has made an effort to do so, but gossipy little school boys like you make yourself appear to be, just keep dragging her back, that's why the grow up, continues to stick to you, and yet you have had so much to say about morrow and his gossip, you two appear to be conned by the same type of shite in your naivete, you are hurting your reputation and lancer's by doing so, keep it up, and it will only sink you deeper, only children or teenie boppers repeat gossip,in school yards, adults are not interested,let alone believe, you choose, it's your neck........as far as the books are concerned, i believe i have said in the past to each their own, the world of jfk research is not going to end, because two or three differ in their opnions of a certain book,or books, the majority could care less, they only care about what they get out of such..the continuing broo haws over such only do one thing imo, they waste resources, not to say people should not post their opinions, but the how many times must they repeat, comes into it, nor do they need imo to take each part of said book apart and continue to post and stress each of their points, once is enough,people can read there is no need imo for continuing repetition, over and over to the point of nauseum, nor each other, so people differ, get over it, and get back to carrying on the good fight, and using their incredible knowledge where it belongs instead of AGAINST EACH OTHER, CTRS ARE AT TIMES THEIR OWN WORSE ENEMIES, NEVER MIND THE DAVID VON PEINS..... sorry for the caps, excuse please...So seamus imo stop proving you are nothing but a pawn being used by some, to spread their gossip and and get back to your studies and research, and do some good instead of continuing to try to hinder...simply let them know if they have anything to say to do so by posting here in their own names, step up to the mike on their own, wanna bet they do not ???and stop allowing them to use yours to throw anymore old tired worn out gossipy mongering old mud.that i know debra would not appreciate nor the adm there, think for yourself and show it in the future....b:kraka:

First off lets get this straight.

A) I'm nothing special I don't build myself up in anyway. Outside of Jim I just tend to get given the toughest and most controversial assignments concerning conspiracy zealots within the CTKA nexus. These assignments are generally the ones that get some members of the kook fringe in the research community up in arms. I make no apologies.

B) Sorry to name drop here. But I also know Deb very well in fact. I also know she is ill. I also know Larry and Jerry well I've also met them. No mean feat when your from NZ let me assure you. Are these the evil gossip mongers at Lancer your refering too? Well in their defence and Lancers let me say the following.

(Note I have left my caps lock on here on purpose to get it through to you once and for all!)

NO ONE AT LANCER TOLD ME SWEET #$%&* ANYTHING ABOUT THE COMINGS AND GOINGS ON AT ANY GODDAMN CONFERENCE! IT CAME TO MY ATTENTION THAT FETZER AND LIFTON WERE NOT ON THE LANCER FORUM I ASKED WHY NOT AND WAS TOLD BECAUSE OF DISAGREEMENTS WITH OWNERS, MEMBERS AND SO ON. I THEN ASSUMED FROM THE INFORMATION GIVEN IT WAS UNLIKELY THEY WOULD GIVE ANY LECTURES. WHATS THE MELO DRAMA HERE? PEOPLE HAVE FALLINGS OUT ALL THE TIME IN RESEARCH CIRCLES. I WAS JUST HAPPY I DIDN'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THEIR B.S ON THE FORUM.

WHAT YOU, NOT I HAVE DONE VIA YOUR LAST GARBLED EMAIL IS ACTUALLY RUN LANCERS NAME INTO THE GROUND BY ASSUMING I HAD HEARD THE WORST FROM VENGEFUL VENDETTA DRIVEN PEOPLE AT LANCER OR ELSEWHERE. THATS TOTAL AND UTTER HORSE SHIT! IN FACT BERNICE NOW I WANT TO KNOW WHAT WENT ON (DEBORAH WILL REALLY APPREICIATE THAT AND SO TOO WILL THE REST OF THIS FORUM AS IT'S ALL NEWS TO ME AS WELL).

C) No one is manipulating me to do or say anything. If you want to assert that influences like Phil Melanson, Evica or Harold Weisberg have manipulated myself to be some sort of divisive force in the community then go ahead, they're actually deceased. If you want to say Lisa Pease and Jim DiEugenio are having a word in my ear (which is total and utter BS) then go ahead.
This is the calibre of work I try to study and emulate.

It's through the studies of what I consider the best research available that I have come to my own conclusions. Unlike others I admit that sometimes their ideas clash in particularly Weisbergs take on Garrison. Thanks to the work of Lane and Weisberg I disliked Fetzer's gibberish a long time before I joined up with Lancer and CTKA!

D) Please don't put me into the category of 'Conspiracy Theorist' I find myself being offended by the term. I am a researcher and I don't like hanging around with conspiracy theorist tin foil hat wearing douche bags who make us look like a total pack of morons. Hence I choose my company rather selectively. As is my right to do so. I'm not here to make friends in research circles. I have my own life away from JFK stuff. The friends I have in and around are bonuses of the job not my priority and never will be.

E) Division amongst CT's is not about ego. That's B.S! It's about people accepting rubbish like Johnson did it. Thats a manipulative ploy unto itself. I'd be more concerned about who at Langley is dangling the Johnson carrot for the more hopeful conspiracy theorists in out midsts. Not about anything I am supposedly being fingered for.

As for my vendetta. WTF. I have a vendetta against all BS artists in the field and I have no tolerance for people who have been on the scene a long time and are still sucked into them. Im not immune from mistakes no one is. But to make them over and over and over again. Well you tell me?

[Bernice Moore]

quote; seamus I heard it straight from those involved with the forum simply put that Jim Fetzer and Lifton were banned from it. i take that as membership...i believe the last go around we had you mentioned a similar phrase..giving the same impression.i explained if you can comprehend, that Debra wants to and has moved on,as many have, but there you are trying your damdest to stir the shite,that's what your here for read your latest post that about says as much, as far as i am concerned Deb is Lancer.so i refer to the whomever passes onto you, the garbage or part of the garbage you continue to spill.not she but some in the membership. clear finally, read what you write,...you do go on so, don't you, a nerve must have been struck no matter your objections...

quote''It's through the studies of what I consider the best research available that I have come to my own conclusions. Unlike others I admit that sometimes their ideas clash in particularly Weisbergs take on Garrison. Thanks to the work of Lane and Weisberg I disliked Fetzer's gibberish a long time before I joined up with Lancer and CTKA! '' ( now that's too bad isn't it, but you object apparently to he as well as others coming to their own conclusions whose ideas clash with yours..as for Weisberg and other names you drop, he was amongst the best imo...and fought a great fight..and his work continues to..THE REST OF YOUR WINDY REPLY I FIND IS NOTHING TO REPLY TO, JUST BLOWING MORE SMOKE, FOR ATTENTION...to carry on your sermons.carry on seamus, you write like you are so very important in your own eyes, i think you may lay off somewhat the mentioning too often of jim and lisa's names as well, you seem to enjoy the dropping of names a little too much imo...too bad THE REST OF THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY HAS NOT KNELT DOWN TO YOUR OVER ZEALOUS LOUD MOUTHED CONCLUSIOS, AND CONTINUES TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES, THEY HAVE NOT ASKED FOR NOR NEED YOU TELLING THEM ANYTHING, SEE FOR A LONG TIME, BEFORE YOU APPEARED THEIR WORK WENT ON AS IT WILL WHEN YOU DROP BY THE WAYSIDE, FROM WEARING YOURSELF OUT, BY YOUR CONTINUING EFFORTS TO TELL ALL WHAT THEY CAN AND SHOULD BELIEVE, TOO BAD BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES, YOU NEED TO DO A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT MORE OF GROWING UP YOUNG MAN, YOU TALK AND PONTIFICATE STILL LIKE THAT SCHOOL BOY, WITH SOME GOSSIPY JUICE TO PASS ALONG, YOU AND MORROW MUST GET ON WELL IN THE SCHOOL YARD YOU HAVE CREATED FOR YOURSELVES.....THANKS FOR THE COME BACK, AN THE CAPITALS ARE ALSO INTENTIONAL...THEN PERHAPS YOU MAY COMPREHEND, THAT NOT MANY IF ANY GIVE A HOOT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO PREACH...OR BUYING YOU ARE NOT THAT IMPORTANT THOUGH YOU CERTAINLY GIVE THE OVERWHELMING IMPRESSION YOU WOULD LOVE TO BE, .. YOU ACCUSE OTHERS OF DOING,WHAT YOU DO, HAVE YOU LOOKED IN THE FORUM OF LATE AND REREAD WHAT YOU WRITE, YOU REPEATEDLY PREACH, AND TELL THEM WHAT THEY SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE INTO,AND WHOM TO BELIEVE ALONG WITH YOUR INSULTS, GO BACK AND DO SOME REFRESHING HONING OF YOUR OVERZEALOUS TECHNIQUE THAT YOU USE IN YOUR POSTS BEFORE YOU CONTINUE TO AGAIN PREACH TO ANYONE ELSE...PS I AM PLEASED TO READ YOU HAVE FRIENDS OUTSIDE OF THE RESEARCH WORLD, YOU GIVE THE IMPRESSION, YOU NEED THEM, BUT A WORD OF ADVICE DO NOT TRY TO TELL THEM WHAT THEY SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE DOING, OR YOU WILL SLIP ON THE PEEL AGAIN...HAVE FUN IN THE SCHOOL YARD...B

[Seamus Coogan]

quote; seamus I heard it straight from those involved with the forum simply put that Jim Fetzer and Lifton were banned from it. i take that as membership...i believe the last go around we had you mentioned a similar phrase..giving the same impression.i explained if you can comprehend, that Debra wants to and has moved on,as many have, but there you are trying your damdest to stir the shite,that's what your here for read your latest post that about says as much, as far as i am concerned Deb is Lancer.so i refer to the whomever passes onto you, the garbage or part of the garbage you continue to spill.not she but some in the membership. clear finally, read what you write,...you do go on so, don't you, a nerve must have been struck no matter your objections...

quote''It's through the studies of what I consider the best research available that I have come to my own conclusions. Unlike others I admit that sometimes their ideas clash in particularly Weisbergs take on Garrison. Thanks to the work of Lane and Weisberg I disliked Fetzer's gibberish a long time before I joined up with Lancer and CTKA! '' ( now that's too bad isn't it, but you object apparently to he as well as others coming to their own conclusions whose ideas clash with yours..as for Weisberg and other names you drop, he was amongst the best imo...and fought a great fight..and his work continues to..THE REST OF YOUR WINDY REPLY I FIND IS NOTHING TO REPLY TO, JUST BLOWING MORE SMOKE, FOR ATTENTION...to carry on your sermons.carry on seamus, you write like you are so very important in your own eyes, i think you may lay off somewhat the mentioning too often of jim and lisa's names as well, you seem to enjoy the dropping of names a little too much imo...too bad THE REST OF THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY HAS NOT KNELT DOWN TO YOUR OVER ZEALOUS LOUD MOUTHED CONCLUSIOS, AND CONTINUES TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES, THEY HAVE NOT ASKED FOR NOR NEED YOU TELLING THEM ANYTHING, SEE FOR A LONG TIME, BEFORE YOU APPEARED THEIR WORK WENT ON AS IT WILL WHEN YOU DROP BY THE WAYSIDE, FROM WEARING YOURSELF OUT, BY YOUR CONTINUING EFFORTS TO TELL ALL WHAT THEY CAN AND SHOULD BELIEVE, TOO BAD BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES, YOU NEED TO DO A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT MORE OF GROWING UP YOUNG MAN, YOU TALK AND PONTIFICATE STILL LIKE THAT SCHOOL BOY, WITH SOME GOSSIPY JUICE TO PASS ALONG, YOU AND MORROW MUST GET ON WELL IN THE SCHOOL YARD YOU HAVE CREATED FOR YOURSELVES.....THANKS FOR THE COME BACK, AN THE CAPITALS ARE ALSO INTENTIONAL...THEN PERHAPS YOU MAY COMPREHEND, THAT NOT MANY IF ANY GIVE A HOOT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO PREACH...OR BUYING YOU ARE NOT THAT IMPORTANT THOUGH YOU CERTAINLY GIVE THE OVERWHELMING IMPRESSION YOU WOULD LOVE TO BE, .. YOU ACCUSE OTHERS OF DOING,WHAT YOU DO, HAVE YOU LOOKED IN THE FORUM OF LATE AND REREAD WHAT YOU WRITE, YOU REPEATEDLY PREACH, AND TELL THEM WHAT THEY SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE INTO,AND WHOM TO BELIEVE ALONG WITH YOUR INSULTS, GO BACK AND DO SOME REFRESHING HONING OF YOUR OVERZEALOUS TECHNIQUE THAT YOU USE IN YOUR POSTS BEFORE YOU CONTINUE TO AGAIN PREACH TO ANYONE ELSE...PS I AM PLEASED TO READ YOU HAVE FRIENDS OUTSIDE OF THE RESEARCH WORLD, YOU GIVE THE IMPRESSION, YOU NEED THEM, BUT A WORD OF ADVICE DO NOT TRY TO TELL THEM WHAT THEY SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE DOING, OR YOU WILL SLIP ON THE PEEL AGAIN...HAVE FUN IN THE SCHOOL YARD...B

The sad thing about all this is that for some reason you have adjudged myself as someone with the impression of not being at fault in any sphere. That is grossly absrud and untrue. You also failed to acknowledge that ultimately you-yes you yourself ran Lancer through the mud and failed to acknowledge my ties to the organisation and the fact I heard little of what you said I had.

However I will not bare a grudge. This whole debate between you and I is hilarious. Quite simply because you have taken a postion of austerity that is ultimately archaic and hypocrital. Yes Bernice, thats the reality and the reason why I put my words in caps in my PREVIOUS POST was so you would read them. And as it seems that you did not the first or second time hell maybe a third. Furthermore I did not put my entire reply in caps. For you to reply soley in capitals was extremely 'school yard'

How old are you 50-60? Im around 34 sorry, but well it shouldn't be me telling you to grow up. I showed one my friends (outside JFK) your post for a giggle and they thought you were very funny they agreed I could also be a stubborn so and so!

Ultimately, the argument rests with this new book by Zirbel the show pony. You agree with Miss Brown. I don't. Theres nothing 'personal' on Brown. She herself is a matter of public record. I don't dislike her Im not out to 'get' her. Bernice she did what she did! The issue is that she was on the record as being an unreliable liar and her party story was a provable fiction.

Oddly enough to the best of my memory Zirbel never even mentioned her in his first book. Zirbel is the issue here. So lets put this pathetic war of semantics behind us and start discussing the back and forth properly.

[Magda Hassan]

I will have to say that by Australian, and by that I also means New Zealand as they are just an outer suburb of Australia, by Australian standards Seamus is truly a proper gentleman in the manner of his speech. You should listen to some one here when they are being rude and uncultured. They don't sound like that. LOL!