Opinions on Roscoe White story?

[Charles Drago]

Thanks for reply but How do you know this ...whats your proof..,disinformation? ...statements made because you have been in the forum without some validation prove nothing ...

Mr. Ortiz,

Permit me to enhance your Deep Political Science 101 course work by teaching you about one of the classic tactics of the agent provocateur.

As has been demonstrated by agents provocateur here and on other forums, they will appear as "newbie" students of, in this case, the JFK assassination, ask simple questions, and then begin the process of disruption by demanding "proof" over and over and over again regarding matters either long proven or, by their very deep political nature, impenetrable by conventional investigative methodologies.

You, like all new members, are being "profiled." This procedure is a key element in our defense structure.

You are beginning to fit the profile of an agent provocateur.

And the timing of your appearance, in the wake of close to a half-dozen penetration attempts in the past two months, is most troubling.

So endeth the lesson.

[Edwin Ortiz]

I WILL let my previous statement stand ...paranoid, nonsensical statements with no backing or proof are not my game ....but you seem quite adept at them ...

[Edwin Ortiz]

Hm im starting to wonder if paranoia is a requirement in this forum . First im too facetious now im an agent provocateur..of course its ok for you to reply back with a 'WITTY " comment ,.I am just a student asking questions....as i expect all people of fair nature to be...so give me a break will you s they say in new york..where i was born and raised...

Thanks for reply but How do you know this ...whats your proof..,disinformation? ...statements made because you have been in the forum without some validation prove nothing ...

Mr. Ortiz,

Permit me to enhance your Deep Political Science 101 course work by teaching you about one of the classic tactics of the agent provocateur.

As has been demonstrated by agents provocateur here and on other forums, they will appear as "newbie" students of, in this case, the JFK assassination, ask simple questions, and then begin the process of disruption by demanding "proof" over and over and over again regarding matters either long proven or, by their very deep political nature, impenetrable by conventional investigative methodologies.

You, like all new members, are being "profiled." This procedure is a key element in our defense structure.

You are beginning to fit the profile of an agent provocateur.

And the timing of your appearance, in the wake of close to a half-dozen penetration attempts in the past two months, is most troubling.

So endeth the lesson.

[Albert Doyle]

Without stepping on any toes, I wonder if Beverly Oliver did see Roscoe on the Knoll after the shooting? Maybe she kept her story quiet for reasons of self-protection?

[Nick Rose]

I'm really surprised that not only could I only find one thread on RW, but that in that thread (this one) not one person mentions that Sam Giancana fingers Roscoe White as a shooter in his memoirs. This is second hand information, but I read those memoirs were first written or dictated in the 1970's (although not published for over a decade) ...

I would be really interested to hear from anyone who has actually read Giancana's memoirs (it is now on my short list) and can relate the specifics and context of this name drop. It seems really random to me, as the name was generally unknown at that time (correct?) ... And by "random" I mean, it strikes me as credible since it isn't like he was naming a high profile figure, he apparently confessed some no-names part in the murder long before his name was common knowledge.

To the Jack White claim of backyard photo involvement but not trigger pulling, I would suggest that it makes perfect sense for someone involved in the murder to also be involved in the frame up. I will also say that the chin is a damn perfect match, as is the stance oddly similar to those seen in some of his military photos. (See below link)

also...
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....opic=20789
those rectangular photos that someone in the thread says only come from a minox ...
i know there is alleged proof that RW and LHO were at several bases/training simultaneously, but are we saying/alleging that LHO took those photos of RW with HIS minox? Is there any basis for this claim???

Finally,
the notion that RW had a poorly healed forearm/wrist fracture(?) that left a bump on his right forearm and that this is what we see in the backyard photos ... can someone point to proof of this injury of RW, and is anyone else here astute enough to comment on whether what we are seeing in the backyard photos is actually this injury or is it not possibly just the joint-end of the Ulna? If we could pin it as White's injury it would be pretty consequential, however I remain unconvinced that it isn't simply the end of the ulna. Again, the stance and the jaw are pretty damning, IMHO. Along with LHO's statement that it was not him, was fake, and he could prove it. If we can prove LHO intimately knew RW, his statement would then seem doubly damning, in that it is possible Oswald was perceptive enough to actually recognize White (not likely?)

Also, to reiterate what I said in the Lee Bowers thread, Bowers' description of the younger man on the knoll seems to match RW in age, at least. And did I not read that some witness actually saw RW on the knoll? Is this in WC testimony or affidavits? Any one know where the genesis of this allegation? I read it just recently somewhere.

any takers???

[Nick Rose]

Based on a thread discussing the three tramps where someone was discussing the possibility of "two sets of 3 tramps" wherein the OP speculated based on observations made of the records which showed variously discrepant reports of which cops were escorting these tramps ... I believe one of the assertions is that the person claiming to be the rear guard is clearly *not* the rear guard in the "landsdale-tramps photo"... while in said thread, the OP suggests the evidence may allow one to conclude two sets of tramps (and maybe that is so) ... i propose the alternate theory that the conflicting record was necessary to obscure the actual identity of one of the officers involved.

Jumping on the alleged fact that the cop on record as claiming to be the rear guard does not look like the cop in the tramp photo, several speculated about it being Roscoe White, based on appareance.

Well, take a look for yourselves .... chin, eyes, ears, nose point, forehead size ...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5637[/ATTACH]

Obviously this probably wouldn't be conclusive, even if done by a professional photo analyst, but it conveys a strong point.

Things Roscoe White has going for him:
* Aug. '57 - Marine routed to Atsugi, Japan (literally same month as Oswald -- both work on U2 project)
* Sep '63 - joined Dallas Police Force
* Sep '71 - dies in "industrial accident"
* implicated mafia boss Sam Giancana names as JFK shooter in his memoirs
* jaw line very strongly matches jaw line in allegedly forged backyard photo
* stance in atsugi photos very closely matches backyard photo
* possible wrist injury bump match to wrist bump on backyard photo (?can not confirm?)
* possibility that atsugi photo of Roscoe is taken with Oswald's minox (?can not confirm?)
* jaw line and broad forehead strongly resemble unknown policeman in Landsdale-tramp photo
* matches age of second man spotted at knoll by Lee Bowers
* claims to have used 7.65 mauser
* possibly adept at photographic manipulation (can not find source of that claim)

[Seamus Coogan]

This is all bullshit. If CD were here he would have chewed this guy to pieces. The difference is I respect the mods at the DPF. Nonetheless, I have to say that it is obvious Mr Rose is not asking any questions he is pushing an agenda. The case of Roscoe White was discredited badly years ago. Only a schmuck would bring the shooter angle. However, there maybe some small (note I said small) truth to it. Jack White examined the link between Roscoe White and the Oswald backyard photograph. His analysis was pretty frank and exacting. If indeed Roscoe was involved he was not a shooter. He was possibly involved in the framing and setting up of Oswald. You won't be seeing CTKA or any serious researcher endorsing the bunk Mr Rose is spouting.

[Tracy Riddle]

C'mon Seamus, be civil. I think he's new to the subject. The newbies rely on us to vaccinate them against all the bullshit.

I don't remember any mention of Roscoe in Giancana's story. I think he is linked to the backyard photos (I suspect he is the body double), but that's probably it.

[Peter Lemkin]

The R. White story is always a good [soft-spot] place to mount an attack the research community, generally. Not saying this is what Rose is doing....but do keep it in mind - perhaps he's just interested in the topic. IMO, Roscoe White was definitely NOT one of the guards of the 'tramps'.....and doesn't even look like any of them - and NO ONE THERE reported he was. [this is like the driver shot JFK] Who the hell cares what a Mafia boss said as to who did what, when, where? A few of the Mafia were tasked to do some specific things within the context of the assassination, due to their past connections with CIA et al., but none of them gave away anything other than eliminating Roselli so he couldn't 'sing' any more to the HSCA. If Rose is interested in the R. White story, I'd suggest he do some research on it. One place with some current information is in Into the Nightmare by McBride. Also, research the REAL story [and the fake hype] of the Ricky White story about his father. Roscoe White was connected to Mil Intel and was placed in the DPD a bit before the assassination. He was seen by two persons on the Knoll [N. one]. He knew Tippit and Ruby. He did photographic work for the DPD and very likely was involved in front of and/or behind the camera in the making of the BYP - as one of the variations was discovered at his home, plus the work by Jack White on the stance, build and elbow injury. White's death is HIGHLY suspicious after he left the DPD a while after the Assassination. I have a source on R. White who doesn't want me to go into the details they have given me at this time. The source is/was in intelligence, and what they told me only confirms that White was emplaced in the DPD for the upcoming event of the assassination; and that he [White] had a hand in [at the minimum] the BYPs - along with one other man, who's name has not yet come forward. White may also have played further roles re: actions in the Plaza, transport of Oswald, and/or the silencing of Tippit. The story made up and then promoted via otherwise reliable researchers [the Ricky White fairytale] was to cover up R. White's real role in the assassination - which would clearly show conspiracy and point to some of the entities involved. Tackling the Roscoe White story needs a very advanced understanding of how disinformation is used to cover-up real information. The cover-up of the JFK case is as active as it was on the day it happened. ::

[Nick Rose]

YOU GUYS SURE HAVE A ***FUCKING FUNNY WAY OF WELCOMING PEOPLE TO YOUR LITTLE FUCKING COMMUNITY***.

You are all more paranoid that fucking David Motherfucking Ferrie himself.

If we all stopped investigating claims and leads based on what has been "debunked" by various sources, the case would have been dead on day one.

Hell, Marina Oswald herself was pretty damning of her husband from the get go.
She sure turned her story around with time.

I'm well aware that the claims of Ricky White were dubious at best.
I'm also well aware that a proper intelligence operation would have a DISINFO campaign launched in tandem with any REAL LEAK or REAL LEAD ***SO AS TO BURY THE TRUTH*** ... in other words, Ricky White COULD be just a jack ass ... OR he could and his family could have been "made an offer" regarding coming forward with DISINFO to cover for a real leak.

I DON'T KNOW WHY ANYONE WOULD BLATANTLY DISREGARD SUCH A NAME DROP BY THE HEAD OF THE CHICAGO MOB,
WHEN HIS RELATIONS TO CASTRO ASSASSINATION, AND HIS OFFING AT THE TIME OF THE HSCA IS READILY APPARENT.
HIS CONNECTION WITH ROSELLI, AND THE CASTRO ATTEMPTS CAN BE FOUND ALL OVER THE FAMILY JEWELS

YOU CAN READ SAM GIANCANA'S ACCOUNT NAMING ROSCOE WHITE HERE, IN CHAPTER FIFTEEN:
http://books.google.com/books?id=bU8tAgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover (you can read it in the free preview even)
See where Roscoe White is named dropped in a chapter containing Johnny Roselli, Maheu, Fiorni, etc ...

If you scroll up to chapter 14, you can see where, in discussing the assassination of Castro, he admits that the government was trying to use a cancer-cocktail (among other chemicals) to attempt a Castro hit (jives nicely with ALSO WIDELY "DEBUNKED" JVBAKER CLAIMS --- OMG -- I'M A DISINFO AGENT, A DOUCHE BAG, A SHILL, A SHMUCK -- WELCOME TO THIS BOARD ASSHOLE!!!)

ROSCOE WHITE STILL REMAINS ON MY LIST OF POSSIBLY VALID LEADS DUE TO HIS JAW IN THE BYP, THE *FACT* THAT HE WENT TO JAPAN ON *THE EXACT SAME BOAT A OSWALD* (which means he may have trained\schooled with Oswald) AND WAS "PLANTED" IN THE DALLAS PD ONLY TWO MONTHS BEFORE THE SHOOTING.

I also argue that if you pull your head out of your ass, quit being such a paranoid and defensive piece of shit, and actually look at the thread my picture comparison is based on, you will see that the rear guard in that landsdale photograph IS very much in question (go read the thread and look at the other guys research, it isn't mine) and that offering Roscoe White as the identity of that officer actually would make some sense (IF YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR HEAD UP YOUR ASS).

I'm not saying IT IS.
I was asking for HONEST OPINIONS.
(Although I wasn't asking to be torn to shreds for trying to contribute)

IN SHORT:
YOU CAN ALL GO FUCK YOURSELVES.