Michael Piper and Final Judgment

[Mark Stapleton]

Sorry Mark, but those roles are played by Facilitators.

So what role is played by the sponsor?

The Sponsor is at the top of the food chain -- a supra-national "interest" for which wars (cold and hot), national identification and patriotism, and organized religions are tools used to keep the many at each others' throats so that control by the few can be preserved and strengthened.

The Sponsor's will be done.

The Sponsor ordered JFK's murder.

So the Sponsor must have ordered LHO's murder too I guess. Or did the Sponsor leave that to the Facilitators?

[Mark Stapleton]

The Liberty attack showed the full true face of US/Israeli intel and how they kill their own for their greater purposes. As did the lack of any meaningful reaction by "the people" once the evidence was clear. The USS Liberty attack was a microcosm of Dealey Plaza.

I agree that the Liberty attack was a microcosm of Dealey Plaza, insofar as the same parties were involved. Israel and the US.

[Mark Stapleton]

I think my point is not to throw out this very legitimate Kennedy Assassination Mediterranean china shop by either knee-jerking anti-semitism, deep political structure, or anti-jewish antipathy too strongly.

Does this mean Israel should be above suspicion?

No. It probably means Israel was no more the "Mastermind" than Johnson.

We'll never know who killed Kennedy. There won't be any convictions, confessions or 'amazing discoveries' found in dusty archives. All we have is debate.

And it will be a debate without limits. The era of 'no go' zones is over. Hypothesising Israel as being responsible for Dealey Plaza is not knee-jerking anti-semitism or anti-jewish antipathy. It is a conclusion drawn from all the evidence available. Overwhelming evidence, imo.

[Magda Hassan]

Magda, I was going to reply to your post (#43) but Albert beat me to it.

Seriously, it's absurd to compare the influence of Quakers, Anglicans and Atheists etc, to the influence Israel and its lobby exerts on the US Congress.

I was responding to your mention that some Zionists have investments in the arms industry. No reference to the lobby.

No other group or nation recieves the financial support from America that Israel does. Which other group or lobby can force the passage of such a generous resolution through Congress by a margin of 460 to 2?

But not in 1963. Or even in 1967. It was just one of many. The amount it receives now indicates its perceived importance to the west to remain as the western outpost in the middle east and cause disruption and divisions.

No other nation can make Congressmen quake in their boots with threats of adverse media coverage or funding pullouts the way Israel can.

Congressmen have never been known for their spine or principles. They'll bow and scrape to the Koch bothers too. And the Christian right. And who ever else is paying their real salary and pulling their strings.

And as we all now know, no country boasts a more sophisticated and ruthless intelligence apparatus, specialising in assassination and false flag operations, than Israel. The CIA couldn't even knock off Castro, for God's sake.

Castro was smart man. The KGB were smart. The Hauptverwaltung Aufklärung of the GDR were smart. Mossad is smart too. But not invincible or perfect. Plenty of fuck ups too. You've really bought in to their PR. I have to admire them for that. You get to do their work on their behalf and they don't have to pay you a thing. Jewish chutzpah at work. Got to love it.

[Mark Stapleton]

No other nation can make Congressmen quake in their boots with threats of adverse media coverage or funding pullouts the way Israel can.

Congressmen have never been known for their spine or principles. They'll bow and scrape to the Koch bothers too. And the Christian right. And who ever else is paying their real salary and pulling their strings.

There you go again. AIPAC has more influence than any other lobby in the US, but you don't want to accept that. The fact that the US Congress is corrupt doesn't alter this fact.

[Mark Stapleton]

Castro was smart man. The KGB were smart. The Hauptverwaltung Aufklärung of the GDR were smart. Mossad is smart too. But not invincible or perfect. Plenty of fuck ups too. You've really bought in to their PR. I have to admire them for that. You get to do their work on their behalf and they don't have to pay you a thing. Jewish chutzpah at work. Got to love it.

More denial.

I never said Mossad was invincible or perfect. They are simply regarded as the best at what they do.

[Magda Hassan]

No other nation can make Congressmen quake in their boots with threats of adverse media coverage or funding pullouts the way Israel can.

Congressmen have never been known for their spine or principles. They'll bow and scrape to the Koch bothers too. And the Christian right. And who ever else is paying their real salary and pulling their strings.

There you go again. AIPAC has more influence than any other lobby in the US, but you don't want to accept that. The fact that the US Congress is corrupt doesn't alter this fact.

I accept it is powerful in relation to the size of Israel's population but it is just one of several powerful lobbies. I also see that the US sees it is in their interest to have influence in the region through Israel. The lobby is not all powerful and omnipotent. The US is not weak and vulnerable to it. It is a mutually beneficial relationship in many ways. As are other relationships with other lobbies for other reasons. Burundi which has roughly the same population probably wouldn't get the same traction if they had a lobby group but them it is not strategically important to the US either. Nor does it have a significant cultural attachment to the US in the way that Israel does. Things seem to be working just fine in congress for BAE, Lockheed Martin and Microsoft too. They just don't get the PR and the Mark Stapleton's publicising their pork barrels.

[Mark Stapleton]

No other group or nation recieves the financial support from America that Israel does. Which other group or lobby can force the passage of such a generous resolution through Congress by a margin of 460 to 2?

But not in 1963. Or even in 1967. It was just one of many. The amount it receives now indicates its perceived importance to the west to remain as the western outpost in the middle east and cause disruption and divisions.

No, the amount it screws out of recession ravaged America indicates its control over the US Congress even more than its importance as a western outpost, imo.

In 1963 Israel didn't have an iron grip on the US Legislature to the extent it does now. I never said it did. However, they still had significant influence over US institutions. They were still able to put the kibosh on John and Robert Kennedy's plans to have the lobby reclassified as a foreign agency.

[Mark Stapleton]

Magda, I was going to reply to your post (#43) but Albert beat me to it.

Seriously, it's absurd to compare the influence of Quakers, Anglicans and Atheists etc, to the influence Israel and its lobby exerts on the US Congress.

I was responding to your mention that some Zionists have investments in the arms industry. No reference to the lobby.

Sorry. My mistake.

[Mark Stapleton]

There you go again. AIPAC has more influence than any other lobby in the US, but you don't want to accept that. The fact that the US Congress is corrupt doesn't alter this fact.

I accept it is powerful in relation to the size of Israel's population but it is just one of several powerful lobbies. I also see that the US sees it is in their interest to have influence in the region through Israel. The lobby is not all powerful and omnipotent. The US is not weak and vulnerable to it. It is a mutually beneficial relationship in many ways. As are other relationships with other lobbies for other reasons. Burundi which has roughly the same population probably wouldn't get the same traction if they had a lobby group but them it is not strategically important to the US either. Nor does it have a significant cultural attachment to the US in the way that Israel does. Things seem to be working just fine in congress for BAE, Lockheed Martin and Microsoft too. They just don't get the PR and the Mark Stapleton's publicising their pork barrels.[/QUOTE]

Dragging the US into a war with Iran, which could escalate into who knows what, how is this mutually beneficial? Where's the benefit for the US?

There are other powerful lobby groups, as you say, but how many are urging the US to fight war after war?